Superliners on Cardinal route?

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Which should there be on the Cardinal?

  • Superliners with reserved train (NER) with dining car, running CHI-WAS

    Votes: 11 34.4%

  • Viewliners, running like now

    Votes: 21 65.6%
  • Total voters
    32
norfolkwesternhenry said:
How does it get WAY more revenue, why not run an extension train with a cross platform transfer, not unlike the BOS 448/449 stub, but with a proper dining car for meals
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Amtrak did some analyzing and saw that there's a big demand for people traveling on the Cardinal to go beyond WAS and into the NEC. I don't have the numbers, but it was quite the difference. Lots of passengers don't like to transfer. I had lunch with a lady who lives in Wilmington and takes the train to Chicago quite a bit. She said she only takes the Cardinal because it is the only direct train between Chicago and the cities between WAS and NYP. I even asked about taking the much faster Capitol Ltd with a quick transfer in WAS. She simply stated that she hates transferring. I know this is anecdotal, but there are others just like this. You describe a cross platform transfer, but thats just inefficient. You may as well have them take an already busy Regional. Amtrak is not going to have a cross platform transfer for a train that runs only three days a week just so they can give the Cardinal Superliner equipment. You may as well just run the cars all the way to NYP and collect the extra sleeping car revenue to boot.

I wouldn't mind see through cars added to the Capitol Ltd. to go down to Florida or something.
 
The best course of action can't be determined by emotion or in a vacuum. You need to take a good hard look at where the passengers come from, and where they go to. Also, as a 3 day a week train, it isn't going to see much love. Perhaps if the CL were converted to single levels and coupled with through cars from the Penn at PGH as another alternate to the LSL traffic from the corridor would be less important to the Card. Of course CL being single level would make it easier to do Florida through if it could be proven economical also.
 
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norfolkwesternhenry said:
A dome car would be awesome, they should try leasing some from VIA Rail
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They should make and market the Cardinal as the 'Coast Starlight of the East'. Run it daily with all new Viewliner cars fresh off the assembly line, and dome cars or rear end observation cars custom made from those designs.
 
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XHRTSP said:
norfolkwesternhenry said:
A dome car would be awesome, they should try leasing some from VIA Rail
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They should make and market the Cardinal as the 'Coast Starlight of the East'. Run it daily with all new Viewliner cars fresh off the assembly line, and dome cars or rear end observation cars custom made from those designs.
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The new Viewliners should go to the more successful LD trains first (Florida trains and the LSL). Then if feasible bring back a BL type train or make the CL Viewliner if it helps bring the through cars off the CL back. Maybe if they have enough Viewliners to make the CL a Viewliner they can reroute the train through the Pennsylvanian route and then go south to DC. That will give a direct train to Pennsylvania and a faster direct train to Baltimore. Plus, you can ditch CSX between PGH and WAS.
 
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Philly, please stop anti-Cardinalling everywhere you go. I see your reasoning, but please leave your anti-Cardinal arguments to other threads. Thank you.
 
Did Superliners come off Cardinal about the time the stimulus funds fixed all the sidelined single levels ( AMFLEET - 1s ) thus freeing up some SL for bilevel trains ? "IF" Cardinal goes daily maybe it can become a train much like Palmetto where coaches are added NYP <> WASH ?
 
west point said:
Did Superliners come off Cardinal about the time the stimulus funds fixed all the sidelined single levels ( AMFLEET - 1s ) thus freeing up some SL for bilevel trains ? "IF" Cardinal goes daily maybe it can become a train much like Palmetto where coaches are added NYP <> WASH ?
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No. It was single level much before that.
 
The Superliners came off after the Autotrain wreck when Amtrak was short on cars.
 
maxbuskirk:

I love your new word, "Cardinalling"--it sounds like something out of an uppercrust British country house conversation:

"Do you have plans for the summer?" "Yes, I shall be sailing to the States on the Queen Mary and then Cardinalling in America." :)

Philly,

Nobody loves the Florida trains or Pennsylvania trains more than I do (I think we are in pretty much the same area, and I'm sure I take the same PA trains you do), and I wish them all the good things they can possibly get from Amtrak. In addition, I always read your proposals with much interest (although I get a headache if I try to digest all the details at once :p ). I have stayed out of the Cardinal discussion so far because I have not taken it and want to do so before expressing an opinion. However, I agree with maxbuskirk--please stop anti-Cardinalling--at least til I have a chance to take it and make up my mind (and finally get to see the New River Gorge)! (And if I'm waiting for the lounge in Chicago to get its act together so I can actually board the Cardinal instead of being put on Chicago commuter rail or something, it's going to be a while. :giggle: )
 
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maxbuskirk said:
Philly, please stop anti-Cardinalling everywhere you go. I see your reasoning, but please leave your anti-Cardinal arguments to other threads. Thank you.
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Please don't ask people to modify their own postings, or only post things YOU like.

This is not a place for PURELY Amtrak foamers and Ampologist, (though often it SEEMS like it)

If Amtrak's shortcomings are always just accepted, then at the end of the day, you won't have much left for the LD travel experience. Which is almost the point of where we are now. I used to be one of Amtrak's greatest evangelist.... Now, I'd like to think of myself as one of their biggest critics. Amtrak can do WAY more, without virtually a penny more for infrastructure or new equipment. (Though both are solely needed) It starts at the top wth MGMT, and having the right mind-set of what the customer-experience should be. NEC experience is diff than LD, which is diff than short-Hauls.... Want a perfect example? "Business Class" 100% ZERO consistently. The public wants to ride Amtrak so much, that Amtrak can provide crap, and the public still flocks to the trains. From a pure bean-counter standpoint, why spend money on a train that is usually full anyway....

If we accept crappy service, rude employees (far more polite, caring, competent employees are there, just WAY too many sucky ones still) and trains and operations that simply LOL at the times in the timetable, then, THAT IS WHAT YOU WILLGET.

I want better.
 
Outstanding post Jerry!

If only we could get the Suits @ 60 Mass and their "Managers" in the field to read and act on this, but sadly, with Boardman on the way out the door, the rats aren't deserting the sinking ship!(just the good staff)

The beancounters are in charge!
 
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rrdude said:
maxbuskirk said:
Philly, please stop anti-Cardinalling everywhere you go. I see your reasoning, but please leave your anti-Cardinal arguments to other threads. Thank you.
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Please don't ask people to modify their own postings, or only post things YOU like.

This is not a place for PURELY Amtrak foamers and Ampologist, (though often it SEEMS like it)

If Amtrak's shortcomings are always just accepted, then at the end of the day, you won't have much left for the LD travel experience. Which is almost the point of where we are now. I used to be one of Amtrak's greatest evangelist.... Now, I'd like to think of myself as one of their biggest critics. Amtrak can do WAY more, without virtually a penny more for infrastructure or new equipment. (Though both are solely needed) It starts at the top wth MGMT, and having the right mind-set of what the customer-experience should be. NEC experience is diff than LD, which is diff than short-Hauls.... Want a perfect example? "Business Class" 100% ZERO consistently. The public wants to ride Amtrak so much, that Amtrak can provide crap, and the public still flocks to the trains. From a pure bean-counter standpoint, why spend money on a train that is usually full anyway....

If we accept crappy service, rude employees (far more polite, caring, competent employees are there, just WAY too many sucky ones still) and trains and operations that simply LOL at the times in the timetable, then, THAT IS WHAT YOU WILLGET.

I want better.
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The problem with your logic is we may as well abandon topics and have a free for all format. There are topics for a reason. When you constantly hijack topics and take them off course, it has an enormous impact on people that actually try to search for information.

This is a topic about Sueperliners on the Cardinal. Technically, the question has been answered. The Broadway or Three Rivers have nothing to do with the topic and just adds to the confusion if someone is actually looking for information on the Broadway or Three Rivers

As for off topic rant about management, people like yourself often leave out that Amtrak is largely controlled by the people that finance it. Therefore, business class is going to have zero consistency when different states pay for different cars and want different services. Even something as simple as positioning the train in the consist can be subject to the whims of the states. Not too long ago, one state wanted to change the positioning of the cafe car. When Amtrak did it, another state who ultimately gets the set complained. So, now there was a big thing over what will happen to the set. When you're dealing with the LD or NEC, you're depending on what Congress appropriates, what Amtrak rations and what may work on a particular route. In other words, what may fly on the Cardinal may not pass muster on the Silver Meteor or Pennsylvanian. What may work on the Vermonter east of New Haven, may not fly west of New York, yet it is the same equipment.

Things always look cut and dry from the outside but when you deal with multiple entities with multiple interests, you have multiple scenarios that require multiple solutions.
 
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Thirdrail hit the nail on the head. Many of the realities of actually running system with multiple masters is probably well beyond the comprehension of armchair philosophers who have cut and dried solutions for hypothetical simple problems fantasizes about. And it sometimes shows. :p But at least it does lead to some lively discussions from time to time, sometimes well out in the la la land too. :)
 
My fearless forecast is that Clinton will win in November, the Democrats will win a lot of seats in the Senate, and a few in the House. Sanders will be yammering about infrastructure investment and that's the easiest way for Clinton to try to satisfy him. Somehow a big order for equipment gets passed and signed.

That big order for equipment will be for hundreds of single-level cars. The Siemens' coaches for Brightline is what Congress will be looking at. And sorry, Nippon Sharyo's bi-levels will not yet be available as a good example by the time Congress is signing the checks.

Of course, Amtrak needs both more single-level cars and more bi-level equipment. But Congress will only have two years to do the thing before who knows what in the 2018 elections.

Then expect the log jam to break with a big replacement order for the Amfleets, for the Regionals, the Eastern LD trains, and corridors. With options to expand the fleet down the line.

Amtrak will have to "make do" with the bi-level LD trains -- a job in which it has accumulated expertise.

When the new cars arrive, start by putting some on the Regionals where Congress can see them, put some on the Cardinal to go daily, replace the Superliners on the Capitol Limited and the City of New Orleans + the Gulfcoaster, and transfer the displaced Superliner equipment to the Western LD trains that need it so badly. Like to take the Sunset Ltd daily.

No place in that forecast for messing with the equipment on the Cardinal. Take it daily, double the ridership, and move on.
 
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Bob Dylan said:
Excellent forecasting and plan Woody!

Do you have your resume in for Boardmans and Gretchen Carlson's jobs yet? LOL
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There can't be a verdict on his forecast until the election at the earliest, as the election is at very least "contested." I have been trying not to comment on political issues in public, as it would seem to me that both sides are getting into flame wars and shouting matches, and that is something that I just don't want to participate in. However, since it would seem that the primary leanings of this board are to the left, I will simply remind everyone that the only times that Amtrak cut any services without a financial necessity happened during democratic presidential administrations.
 
Personally, I would like to see both the Cardinal and the Capitol operate with Viewliner's. I would prefer to see the Superliner's used only on the transcontinental trains. The benefits of more flexibility in running thru cars at several locations have been mentioned. Besides the Cardinal running up the NEC, the Capitol could as well (as it did at one time as a B&O train), besides the possibility of running Florida cars on it.

I like the idea of a glass top Viewliner lounge car....sort of like the old SAL Sun Lounge sleepers.....although I'm not sure if the infrastructure of the Viewliner's top could easily receive that modification.
 
AC packages in the roof have become pretty popular in current generation commuter and subway cars, because of their easier maintenance. Would not be surprised to see next-gen single level passenger cars go in that direction, that would pose issues for full length roof glass, but you could certainly bring the window size up, and come up to the roof on part of the car. Likelihood is any new lounge will be an adaptation of the basic design used for corridor, ld, bc, and cab.
 

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