My mom today suggested that we take a trip out to St. Louis by Amtrak to visit my uncle. I went on Reservations.Amtrak.com to see what the prices were for. Now most of the southbound Texas Eagle #21s were shown as coach sold out, but I was able to find a few dates where other numbers of the same train had coach space advailable like #321 and #421. I dont understand this multiple numbering system. Are these just coaches that get set off in STL or something? I had no troubles finding a Lake Shore with coach space, there seemed to be no Lake Shore that had coach sold out though alot of them had sold out Viewliners. Now I suceeded in finding room on a southbound Eagle which would get me to STL at a better time and had less of a layover then the only other option, the 305 State House. The trip back is what ruined the whole plans. I searched for every date possible for coach space on the Eagle, it didnt matter if it was on the weekend or weekday it is sold out right through September. This has to be due to the recent car reduction on the train! Now, I was thinkin since there are multiple train numbers of 21 which have usually have space advailable that 22 would be the same way, but I was wrong! Why is that? Theres only one other possibility, to take #300 the 4:35 AM State House departure but my mom said NO WAY! Well if she is really serious about the trip we could always have my uncle drive us to Union Station in Chicago instead of trying to catch a train. Too bad the Ann Rutledge goes by too late to catch the Lake Shore. If only it ran an hour an a half earlier we would be all set. This whole situation really exemplifies Amtraks whole car crunch. Like my dad said, Ideally a train shouldnt be sold out ever, just keep adding more cars as demand requires. The problem is Amtrak doesnt have them! Maybe instead of buying all those new P42s 2 years ago they should have spent some of that money on more passenger cars for the demand they are getting! Amtrak is definatly missing out on plenty of money by selling out trains, especially coach cars!
Texas Eagle Booked Solid Through Summer!
- Thread starter P40Power
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Save Our Trains Michigan
Conductor
Also keep in mind that the freight RR have car limits on Amtrak which i think is unfair.
battalion51
Engineer
The multiple thing is exactly as you thought, sections. 421/422 is the off shoot of the Texas Eagle, 850/851 K-Card from Cardinal, 448/449 off shoot of LSL. In some cases though it is a local coach (EB 808/809 if I'm not mistaken) which gets whacked at Minneapolis/St. Paul going westbound, and added going east.
The thing I dont get though is why the cars dont rejoin the northbound conterpart at STL and have increased space as trains 422 or whatever? I never saw space on a 422 offered in all the itnerarys I was giving on their site. Do the cars possibly rejoin the train at STL and just not have a multiple number for it?
Amfleet
Engineer
P-40 Power, I suggest trying to connect in New York to the Three Rivers or Washington to the Capitol Limited (most favorable in my opinion). Space may be avalible on those trains.
As for Amtrak buying more cars, they have enough in my opionion. It just some times of the year they sell out, and others trains can run half empty. Remember, Amtrak purchsed all those Pacific Surfliner's, the Talgos, and the Acela Express trainsets with the P-42s so much of the equipment was displaced throughout the system.
As for Amtrak buying more cars, they have enough in my opionion. It just some times of the year they sell out, and others trains can run half empty. Remember, Amtrak purchsed all those Pacific Surfliner's, the Talgos, and the Acela Express trainsets with the P-42s so much of the equipment was displaced throughout the system.
Well now that Express Service has largely been discontinued, train length is no longer an issue. Most freight RR's limit Amtrak to 30 cars, so the Eagle isn't even approaching that.BNSF_1088 said:
It is purely lack of usable equipment, which is why David was so gung-ho about getting Beach Grove up and running. As long as there is money, I'm sure that BG will continue to be one of David's priorities.
Superliner Diner
Conductor
Well at least you won't have any trouble finding a place to put your dirty laundry!! :lol: :lol:
But seriously, the Texas Eagle does carry three numbers in each direction. Trains 21 and 22 are the mainline train, as it runs its regular daily route between Chicago and San Antonio. Trains 321 and 322 are short-turn coaches. These only run between Chicago and St. Louis, essentially functioning as a third daily corridor run between the two cities (the others are the State House and the Ann Rutledge). These coaches come off the southbound train when it gets to St. Louis in the evening, and are then added to the northbound train the following morning. Trains 421 and 422 represents the through coaches and sleeper that run beyond St. Louis to Los Angeles. These are hooked onto the Sunset Limited between San Antonio and Los Angeles. Just as the Texas Eagle carries 3 sets of numbers Chicago-St. Louis, and 2 sets St. Louis-San Antonio, the Sunset Limited San Antonio-Los Angeles is Trains 1 and 421 westbound and Trains 2 and 422 eastbound, again with the second number denoting the through equipment between the two trains.P40Power said:
Now through the reservations system you surely can book a Chicago-St. Louis trip on Train 21, 321, or 421, they are just different sections of the same train. When you are boarded in Chicago, you will be asked your destination, and will be seated in the appropriate section (most likely that which carries the 321 designation). Note that the train does not actually have these numbers on it, but for ticketing and scheduling purposes the different numbers are necessary.
I agree that this problem is due to the equipment reductions brought about by the desire to run one engine instead of two per train (a dangerous gamble in my opinion should something go wrong!). I know that one sleeper has been eliminated from #21 and #22, although the through sleeper on the #421/422 section continues. They are selling space in the Transition sleeper, which until now has been used only as a crew dorm; however this does not replace the number of rooms lost by removing an entire regular sleeping car from each train. As for coach capacity, I am unaware of any move to cut out any coaches, so chalk this experience up to usual summer volume. That is not a good excuse, but one that Amtrak has used for years. Hopefully as Beech Grove repairs the wreck-damaged coaches and places them back into service, this will happen less frequently.
That could be a solution, take the Ann Rutledge to chicago and then go on the Three Rivers to New York, maybe find a connection up to Albany or Springfield. I will have to see what my mom is willing to do! On the subject of equipment, I feel that Amtrak could have gotten some more single level dining and sleeping cars to augment the fleet. As for the Superliner fleet, looking at a roster it looks like Amtrak has probably enough for current services IF they were all in operating order. Maybe a small order of cars to offset the cars lost in wrecks would have worked out well.
Those cars from the other sub-trains numbers do indeed rejoin the northbound train. They must just be sold out too.P40Power said:
I just went to the Amtrak website and asked about tomorrow's train. It shows availability on train #322 and #22. Sorry that doesn't help you for you trip but it does show that the system is booking the return counterparts to the southbound variations. You may want to keep checking and/or you may want to actually talk with a live agent and have them do a search.
Amfleet
Engineer
You are right, instead of buying 80+ P-42 units, the money could have been spent on additional Viewliner Sleepers, new Dining Cars and Crew Dorms. And though they look nice, those Temoinsa rebuilds in my mind did nothing for the Heritage fleet except cover up the age of those cars.
Superliner Diner
Conductor
Amfleet,Amfleet said:
They needed the power too, as they wanted to retire the F-40 fleet. That might possibly have been a questionable move, since the F-40's performed well despite their old age, while the Genesis units (P32-DP, P40, P42) have had their share of breakdowns.
Amfleet
Engineer
I guess your right. Since Wrrington was all over his mail and express business the extra power was needed at the time. Most trains would barely make up steep grades with two units! And yes the F-40's were showing there age and replacements were needed.
Amtrak could have possibly continued completely rebuilding a few more F40PHs as it did with a few of them in 2000. It would have cost less to refurbish one of the F40PHs sitting around then buy a brand new P42 I would think. I agree the F40PHs were stellar performers for the most part! At least Amtrak could have been a little more sensible with its rather large P42 order and just ordered enough to augment the current P40s and P42s rather then having some perfectly good P40s mothballed!
Amfleet
Engineer
I don't think the F-40s received rebuilds, just some of them were painted into Phase IV.
I hated Warrington, he definatly wasnt a railroader nor did he know how to run a railroad. All he focused on was the idiotic rebranding of the Northeast and those stupid promotions of the new Acela (those lame advertisment pictures, the "hip" ones that like had nothing to do with nothing) and the lies that Amtrak was doing well and was going to be self supporting by 2002. The list of bad about Warrington goes on, he was just a bad president. Tom Downs wasnt a good one either, him and his train cuts and service downgradings didnt do anything to really help the railroad. Claytor was a true railroad man and I really respect what he did at Amtrak. During his years at the head, Amtrak seemed to operate fairly well. David Gunn I think is the next Claytor and he can probably reverse most of the bad doing of Warrington and Downs. Hopefully!
battalion51
Engineer
They can and have been rebuilt. I look at 810 and 811 for Tri-Rail (both former Amtrak). 810 during the school year is the leader (or pusher) of Tri-Rail's longest train, the School of The Arts trainset (SOFTA as some of us call it).
Superliner Diner
Conductor
This might bring a pang to some who don't like to see good equipment ruined, but they took some F-40's and made "cabbage" cars out of them. Cabbage because their insides were taken out and they were reduced to a combination of "cab" cars and "baggage" cars, hence the contraction "cabbage". These still operate on the rear of some trains, including some Midwestern runs and the Downeaster. This allows the train to operate in push-pull fashion, reducing the need to wye the train at its endpoints. Being a former engine, it also provides much more protection for the engineer from head-on accidents when used as a cab car, as opposed to a coach that functions as a cab car.
So had more of the retired F-40's been made into cabbage, that would have saved some P-40 & P-42 engines, since when a cabbage is not used, they run the trains with two engines, one on each end of the train. The cost of turning the F-40's into cabbage can therefore be weighed against the cost of purchasing new engines.
So had more of the retired F-40's been made into cabbage, that would have saved some P-40 & P-42 engines, since when a cabbage is not used, they run the trains with two engines, one on each end of the train. The cost of turning the F-40's into cabbage can therefore be weighed against the cost of purchasing new engines.
battalion51
Engineer
Well SD, here's a tidbit many probably weren't aware of. In Gunn's four year plan he has all cabbages slated for retirement. Then again many of these routes that currently run with an Engine and cabbage (New Haven-Springfield shuttles, Downeater, short Midwest runs) will get the new RDC's (let's just hope the don't end up like the SPV's [seldom Powered Vehicle]).
Amfleet
Engineer
Cabbages could have been used on trains such as the Vermonter and the Springfield Shuttle.
Cabbage Cars, they wouldnt be so bad if they didnt put that awful looking roll up door on the side of them! I do agree that they are better for collisions then say an ex-metroliner cab car would be for sure. So the cabbages make good use of otherwise obsolete F40PHs. On a side note I was quite upset to see F40PH number 200 made into a cab car and had one of those ugly doors put into its side!! I think that unit, being the first F40PH built for Amtrak, should be put in a rail museum somewhere with a banner over it "The Diesel that Saved Amtrak!" Thats just my own oppinion
Amfleet
Engineer
Springfield Shuttles never used Cabbages, just ex-Metroliner cabs.
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