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Ah. That makes sense. For some reason I thought the sunset limited was flex dining as well.

I agree - it should be called something else from SAS to LA to make that distinction clearer. Maybe the desert flyer?
The train between SAS and LAX already has a name. It is Sunset Limited. In the old days such transfer cars were sometimes given dual name like Texas Eagle - Sunset Limited. There is no need to in effect give the train between SAS and LAX two names. As far as reservations and car identity goes the consist position id of the car is adequate to identify them for all things that matter.
 
Ah. That makes sense. For some reason I thought the sunset limited was flex dining as well.

I agree - it should be called something else from SAS to LA to make that distinction clearer. Maybe the desert flyer?
Just continue to call it the Sunset and the through cars to Chicago, Chicago cars. Simple. That's how it generally would have been done back in the day.

Note that due to reservation system limitations, those Chicago cars must have their own independent train numbers, so 421/422 aren't going anywhere, irrespective of what you call it.

In my mind, the Sunset is a Los Angeles-New Orleans train carrying Chicago cars as far as San Antonio. The Texas Eagle is a Chicago-San Antonio train carrying Los Angeles cars handled on the Sunset west of San Antonio.

Adding a third train name for the Sunset west of San Antonio would just add more confusion, not diminish it.
 
True this!

The difference between riding between Chicago and San Antonio on the Eaglete, compared to the Sunset Ltd between San Antonio and LA, is like riding a late 1960s SP Sunset Ltd compared to the Santa Fe's Super Chief!
While I get what you're trying to say, from the accounts I've read of the Santa Fe Super Chief and my experience riding Amtrak's Southwest Chief, Empire Builder, and California Zephyr (equivalent to the Sunset Limited), I gather that even the best of Amtrak's offerings does not compare with the Super Chief of old.
 
While I get what you're trying to say, from the accounts I've read of the Santa Fe Super Chief and my experience riding Amtrak's Southwest Chief, Empire Builder, and California Zephyr (equivalent to the Sunset Limited), I gather that even the best of Amtrak's offerings does not compare with the Super Chief of old.
Having actually ridden on the Super Chief, I will say Amtrak not only doesn't compare, it isn't remotely in the same league.

When Brian Rosenwald's Amtrak West Coast Starlight was in full flower, I used to say that, while it wasn't the Super Chief, you could kind of see it from there. That was as close as Amtrak ever got.
 
And why the Marketing Department thinks it's wise to call the entire Chicago to LA run as Texas Eagle is beyond me, other than to give passengers the idea that they don't actually change trains. Sadly, the experience on 421/422 is quite different from 1/2. And some passengers are surprised at the change.
I agree, but it is a railroad practice that goes back into Amtrak history (combined trains such as the California Zephyr/Pioneer/Desert Wind carrying their individual train numbers and names all the way into Chicago).

Or back even further…the UP City of Los Angeles in its final year nicknamed “City of Everywhere” when combined with Cities of San Francisco, Portland, Denver, and St. Louis over portions of its route.
The BN’s combined Afternoon Zephyr, Empire Builder, and North Coast Limited, combined between Chicago and St. Paul was another example, although in its case, the three trains were each pretty much intact the whole way except for the locomotives and some cars added at St. Paul.

There were many other examples around the country…
 
I agree, but it is a railroad practice that goes back into Amtrak history (combined trains such as the California Zephyr/Pioneer/Desert Wind carrying their individual train numbers and names all the way into Chicago).

Or back even further…the UP City of Los Angeles in its final year nicknamed “City of Everywhere” when combined with Cities of San Francisco, Portland, Denver, and St. Louis over portions of its route.
The BN’s combined Afternoon Zephyr, Empire Builder, and North Coast Limited, combined between Chicago and St. Paul was another example, although in its case, the three trains were each pretty much intact the whole way except for the locomotives and some cars added at St. Paul.

There were many other examples around the country…
I make a pretty strong distinction between Amtrak and what went before, when comes to "historical" with Amtrak often not conforming to previous practice.

While, towards the end, the practice of combining trains became common for operating efficiencies, the trains often were just coupled together. The Afternoon Hiawatha Zephyr/North Coast Limited/Empire Builder is a prime example. Each train's consist and identity was pretty much intact between Minneapolis and Chicago, including diner and lounges. They all just got pulled by one set of engines between those points. The City of Everywhere maintained the same amenities of all its constituent services, though in some cases some lounges and diners were switched out, access to lounges and diners remained for the entire duration of each train. UP also meticulously rearranged the consist so sleepers and coaches were not intermixed on the combined train. I may not be recalling precisely, but as an example, on the City of Portland I seem to recall got its own diner at Green River, but kept the dome lounge it had had from Chicago. I know the SP had its own diner and lounges between Oakland and Ogden on the CoSF, but it had always been that way, even when CoSF ran entirely independently.

The Eagle's operation much more resembles "through car" operation where cars, mostly Pullmans then, were switched between trains that had their own indivdual identities. Pullman cars getting switched between trains was an extremely common practice. That generally didn't change the identity of the trains they were carried on. One late era example is the through Pullman to Seattle carried on the Cascade that lasted into the 60s. The Cascade terminated in Portland. The NP/GN/UP "pool" train that took the Seattle car (don't recall which one it was) on to Seattle did not become the Cascade.
 
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Apologies if I'm asking stuff that's been asked before. I'm planning a solo trip to some concerts in the heartland this summer (early August), ending in Oklahoma City. It's timed such that I can catch the westbound Eagle out to LA. I've been looking at the train status maps, trying to figure out why I didn't see 421 or 422, which brought me here.

I'll be boarding in Fort Worth and I'm trying to understand what all happens after that :). I have ridden the Empire Builder west to east, starting in Seattle, so I have some reference of a train merging (I surprisingly slept through that whole operation). So what happens on this route?

From my understanding of the last few pages - if I get on the Texas Eagle in Fort Worth (I'm planning on a roomette for this trip), my car and a couple of others become part of the Sunset Limited in San Antonio?

How is that stretch from Fort Worth to San Antonio? Is that where on-board provisions are kind of low?

I see a lot of references earlier to "flex meals" and "Eaglet". What are these?
 
Apologies if I'm asking stuff that's been asked before. I'm planning a solo trip to some concerts in the heartland this summer (early August), ending in Oklahoma City. It's timed such that I can catch the westbound Eagle out to LA. I've been looking at the train status maps, trying to figure out why I didn't see 421 or 422, which brought me here.

I'll be boarding in Fort Worth and I'm trying to understand what all happens after that :). I have ridden the Empire Builder west to east, starting in Seattle, so I have some reference of a train merging (I surprisingly slept through that whole operation). So what happens on this route?

From my understanding of the last few pages - if I get on the Texas Eagle in Fort Worth (I'm planning on a roomette for this trip), my car and a couple of others become part of the Sunset Limited?

How is that stretch from Fort Worth to San Antonio? Is that where on-board provisions are kind of low?

I see a lot of references earlier to "flex meals" and "Eaglet". What are these?
The hubby and I will be riding the Texas Eagle from Pontiac, IL to Fort Worth in October, and the TE tracks run right past our workplace, so perhaps I can answer a few of your questions.
You will be riding the Heartland Flyer (a regional train) to Fort Worth, then boarding the westbound TE to Los Angeles. From Chicago to St. Louis, the TE consist (after the engine or engines) is a sleeping car, a Cross Country Cafe (where the flex meals are prepared for sleeping car passengers), and 3 coaches; one of these coaches terminates at St. Louis, so the consist from St. Louis to San Antonio is engine(s) + sleeper + CCC + 2 coaches. At the point where you board the TE in Fort Worth, IF it's on time, you should be getting a flex meal supper before it arrives in San Antonio (at approx. 8:45PM, IF it's on time). There is then a layover of several hours in San Antonio, while the sleeper and 1 coach from the TE are attached to the westbound Sunset Limited. You might not have electrical power in your roomette for part of the layover time, but if it's during the night, you'll probably sleep through the whole thing. It's possible that on-board provisions might be running low on the TE from Fort Worth to San Antonio, but there will probably at least be some emergency provisions aboard (maybe the "Amstew" (Dinty Moore beef stew) that's often mentioned in trip reports when a train is very delayed). By the time you wake up the next morning, the rest of your meals until you reach LA will be from the traditional dining menu in the Sunset Limited's dining car.
"Flex meals" are similar to microwave entrees you might purchase at the supermarket, served with a small salad, bread roll, and individually-wrapped dessert (at lunch and supper). You can find the TE's flexible dining menu on the Amtrak website, and there are plenty of YouTube videos which include commentary on Amtrak's "flex meals."
"Eaglet" is a diminuative nickname for the TE, mostly referring to its short consist, but also to the perception that it's the "orphaned stepchild" of Amtrak's western long-distance routes.
Hope this helps!
 
The Afternoon Hiawatha/North Coast Limited/Empire Builder is a prime example. Each train's consist and identity was pretty much intact between Minneapolis and Chicago,
Not the Hiawatha, the Afternoon Zephyr (BN all the way from Chicago, then). The trains were split at St. Paul, all separate on to Minneapolis, IIRC....
 
Hope this helps!
That helps a lot, thank you! I've encountered that stew before - on this very train! I did ride it from Austin TX to Bloomington, IL back in 2019 and we got caught up in a storm and hit a tree and were stuck there all night. I did find it's much easier to sleep on a train when it's not moving!

This western stretch is all new to me. Thanks for your help! I never knew this train fused with the Sunset.
 
Not the Hiawatha, the Afternoon Zephyr (BN all the way from Chicago, then). The trains were split at St. Paul, all separate on to Minneapolis, IIRC....
I stand corrected on the Zephyr versus Hiawatha, I knew that but it wasn't front of mind (at least I didn't call it the Borealis 😉). And I frankly didn't know whether the trains were joined/split at Minneapolis or SPUD. I just knew they were combined between the twin cities and Chicago. It makes sense, SPUD had more track space, than the GN Minneapolis station, IIRC. Did the Afternoon Zephyr go to Minneapolis or terminate in St. Paul? It kind of doesn't make sense to split it off and then just run it a couple miles.
 
The Eagle's operation much more resembles "through car" operation where cars, mostly Pullmans then, were switched between trains that had their own indivdual identities. Pullman cars getting switched between trains was an extremely common practice. That generally didn't change the identity of the trains they were carried on. One late era example is the through Pullman to Seattle carried on the Cascade that lasted into the 60s. The Cascade terminated in Portland. The NP/GN/UP "pool" train that took the Seattle car (don't recall which one it was) on to Seattle did not become the Cascade.
For many, many years, UP457 carried the Oakland sleepers from Portland to Seattle and NP408 brought them back. That service ended in late 1965 or early 1966. There was a pool of sleepers painted in SP colors, but lettered for Southern Pacific, Union Pacific, and Northern Pacific. The two trains were lined up on Tracks 4 and 5 and the coach passengers made a cross-platform transfer while a terminal company switcher moved sleepers.

Back to the Eagle: Texas once had quite a few through car services thanks to its geography. It's hard to pick just one route. The problem now is the substandard Eagle, not how it's named or numbered.
 
Otherwise how will the isolated train set SAS <> FTW get servicing. Know SAS does have maintenance but is it capable to do everything needed for 4 or 5 days?
I was thinking about that too. There's no way to restock food in San Antonio right? How will that work out?
It's been a long time since I looked into this but in the past FTW has carried pantry stocks for the Texas Eagle (LSA would call-in along the way). I presume that it still does and that it can loan stock intended for the Heartland Flyer. Forth Worth and San Antonio are major cities with many restaurant wholesalers and commercial kitchens that could be tasked with providing meals for a few days/weeks as necessary. How that works in precise terms is unknown to me.
 
It's been a long time since I looked into this but in the past FTW has carried pantry stocks for the Texas Eagle (LSA would call-in along the way). I presume that it still does and that it can loan stock intended for the Heartland Flyer. Forth Worth and San Antonio are major cities with many restaurant wholesalers and commercial kitchens that could be tasked with providing meals for a few days/weeks as necessary. How that works in precise terms is unknown to me.
Agreed, on FTW being a restocking depot for the reasons given. I am sure San Antonio can do service instpections since they have crews there rearranging cars.

I think the TE tops off the fuel tank at FTW and refuels when it returns to FTW the next day.
 
Ft Worth does restock the Cafe for the Heartland Flyer,( Daily to/from OKC)but there is no Commisary per se, everything is done by contract and delivered to the Station as needed.

The Texas Eagle( aka Eaglete)is supplied in Chicago for the Roundtrip 4 day/2 night route between Chicago and San Antonio, which results in the Northbound #22/#422 often running out of food and drink in the Cafe and Diner.( combined CCC)

I've been fed Subway,Pizza and KFC several times on the Eaglete when long delays resulted in shortages on this Train.
 
The Texas Eagle( aka Eaglete)is supplied in Chicago for the Roundtrip 4 day/2 night route between Chicago and San Antonio, which results in the Northbound #22/#422 often running out of food and drink in the Cafe and Diner.( combined CCC)
Third world railroading at its best. When are they going to add a gondola with folding chairs to the consist?
 
Breaks my heart remembering consists used to be 9-10 cars long, full and daily. If it is not said enough, thank you TEMPO for your hard work.
I remember that I avoided riding the Texas Eagle for a number of years. I didn't think the scenery would be very good. I expected the ride to be long, tedious and boring.

But then I finally took the Eagle. What a nice train and what a pleasant ride. Good crew. Great dining car with nice meals. Nice lounge car. The Eagle became one of my favorite trains and fortunately I was able to take several trips on the Eagle before disaster struck. But those are great memories of what was and what should be again.
 
Why did a 6 hour late 22 consist turn around in FTW to become a 6 hour late 21?

Never mind, I see there is a bus bridge between Longview and FTW.
 
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Third world railroading at its best.
Even developing countries are starting to build high and higher speed trains leaving us at risk of falling into some sort of "fourth world" pax railroading. There is some progress in FL and I'm hoping real HSR is able to succeed in CA and NV, but here in TX we've managed to kill off both public and private HSR.

I remember that I avoided riding the Texas Eagle for a number of years. I didn't think the scenery would be very good. I expected the ride to be long, tedious and boring. But then I finally took the Eagle. What a nice train and what a pleasant ride. Good crew. Great dining car with nice meals. Nice lounge car.
Agreed. The Boardman Eagle was a fine train in its own right. It's the Gardner Eaglet that leaves so much to be desired. I also enjoyed the Eagle portion of the Sunset route but, the oh dark thirty dwell reduction schedule change combined with the non-daily operation made taking it untenable for me.
 
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