The AEM7 replacement

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Amtrak recently released an interim report on long range NEC improvement plans, and it discussed new equipment. Unfortunately, since Amtrak redid its website, the link that I had for the report is now dead.

The report gave the impression, though, that Amtrak will not order additional Acela equipment, and instead wants a next generation HST with higher curve speeds and a higher top speed capability (180 - 200 mph). The report did mention the Acela's width and truck stability issues as limiting factors for maximum cant deficiency on curves.
 
Amtrak recently released an interim report on long range NEC improvement plans, and it discussed new equipment. Unfortunately, since Amtrak redid its website, the link that I had for the report is now dead.
The report gave the impression, though, that Amtrak will not order additional Acela equipment, and instead wants a next generation HST with higher curve speeds and a higher top speed capability (180 - 200 mph). The report did mention the Acela's width and truck stability issues as limiting factors for maximum cant deficiency on curves.
I think you want the Interim Assessment of Achieving Improved Trip Times on the Northeast Corridor - PRIIA Section 212 (d)

Another report on the NEC is Northeast Corridor State of Good Repair Spend Plan - PRIIA Section 211

Both are on the "News & Media" page (click on "Reports & Documents" on the left side menu.)
 
Sure! I enjoyed reading them - one can hope all the $$ comes in to make the improvements, but the report does have a few upbeat parts in talking about past work on the NEC:

"Each round of investment made significant improvements in the physical condition of the NEC that has benefited all users. Signaling and control have been centralized, allowing the replacement of aging mechanically operated interlocking plants with modern facilities. All of the modern equipment needed for higher speed service, such as cab signals and automatic train stop, is in service. Positive train control is installed on the segments of the Amtrak-owned routes where trains exceed 125 mph, and Amtrak intends to install it on Amtrak owned and operated portions of the main line and branch lines by the end of 2012. Continuous welded rail and concrete ties have replaced jointed rail and wooden ties, allowing for improved ride quality, higher speeds and lower maintenance costs."

"Despite aging components, the NEC is still the most modern and up-to-date railroad in the United States. Much of the track structure has been upgraded over the past decade; undergrade bridges have been re-decked and curves have been elevated, among other improvements, that permit higher speeds and improved ride quality while contributing to lower operating costs."
 
How often do the existing NEC electrics pull 18 coaches?
I would think rarely. BUT if they need to rescue a train, it might be needed.
I wonder where they will find platforms to hold all of those 18 coaches. Maybe a couple in New York and Washington?
:lol: The new metropark platforms would come pretty close to holding an 18 car train I would think. Although it might just be deceptive since MET is on a curve.
I assumed the 18 car rating was mainly due to the lack of track slots to put new trains in, growth as to be in length not frequency because of this. NEC trains used to be no more than 6 cars long, now 8, 10, and occasionally 12 is the norm.
 
According to a discussion I had with an Amtrak official that I won't name, but will describe as extremely tall and generally large in size with big teeth, Amtrak does not have any serious plans to retire the Amfleets within the next 10-15 year time period. They are considering acquiring some additional higher-speed new cars to supplement (and perhaps displace) some from the Corridor itself, but he described the likely hood of that happening as "remote".

Given their acceptable top speed, the sheer number of cars they have, the amount of money they are putting into them, and the amount of money it would require to acquire about 400-450 rail cars with limited intended life, and Amtrak's overall plans, it just doesn't make any sense. Amtrak wants to electrify to Richmond.

They're overall dream is to acquire a pair of tracks alongside the CSX ROW, straighten where possible, and electrify the thing with high platforms the entire way. To put it differently, the intention is to have the core corridor be BOS-RVR, and running with high speed trainsets. The Amfleets and any successors to them need to have traps, to serve the numerous low-level platforms along the Northeast, Keystone, and Empire corridors, as well as a possibility (and we are talking long, long term here), of running a corridor from New York to Buffalo via Dover, Scranton, and Binghamton. I.E. the old DLW line- the Cutoff that NJT is rebuilding. NJT is gonna run trains to Scranton, New York and Pennsylvania have shown interest in helping to fund a New York-Buffalo corridor under those circumstances.

Since these theoretical Amfleet replacements would need traps to serve the NEC as it currently stands, they would have to be limited to 125 mph. More then that and you go to FRA tier II and you need trapless construction. What he said was that the intention was to work on improving the infrastructure to the point where the core Northeast Corridor, as well as the Keystone and perhaps Empire corridors, could be served by tier II equipment, at which point Amtrak would start asking congress for that kind of equipment, which is easier to sell since it is faster.

Given these plans, any Amfleet replacement would, by its very nature, be temporary, and thus make very little sense economically. The impression I got was that if they did order Amfleet replacement equipment, it would be something off the shelf and easily resold. I got the impression that NJT/AMT multi-levels would be likely if they had to do that, but more likely of the still only-on-the-drawing board Arrow IV Multi-Level variety, which are Bombardiers plans for EMUs based on the Multi-level coaches.

All of that is subject to change, but what the contact said was that, equipmentwise, short/medium distance single-level 125mph trap-equipped coaches are about last on the priority. Intended NEC capacity increases is going to come from freeing up such cars from duties where other cars can do the job- i.e. California-car style bi-levels.
 
All of that is subject to change, but what the contact said was that, equipmentwise, short/medium distance single-level 125mph trap-equipped coaches are about last on the priority. Intended NEC capacity increases is going to come from freeing up such cars from duties where other cars can do the job- i.e. California-car style bi-levels.
... And hence the desire to acquire 130 bi-level corridor cars, so that they can be used to release all the single level Amfleets to be shipped back east.

I suppose the issue of Amfleet II shortage when they get to expand eastern LDs is a separate one.
 
Makes sense for the Amfleet cars, but what does your source say about the AEM7 replacement? Does the ALPs have the inside track? Especially if they are serious about electrifying the Richmond corridor, they do not have enough electrics for that.

So in Amtrak's mind the STL-CHI, DET-CHI,MIL-CHI corridors would use Surfliner like equipment? Would Amtrak use Genesis locomotives with these sets, it would not be aesthetically pleasing. Hasn't EMD stop making the type of locomotive the Surfliner uses? MP makes a good motor that Metra and Caltran uses.
 
EMD pulled the F59PHI from their catalog at least 5 years ago. IIRC among the last units built were for TRE. The sales for the units never came to fruition as they expected. The largest single user of passenger engines in the country is Amtrak, and if they're not buying from you there's a very limited market. Many of the Commuter agencies have been purchasing second hand engines that have been retired in recent years. As far as new fleets for the mid-west goes, I honestly don't think the aesthetics of matching motors to the height of the cars is high on the priority list. The P-42's still have another 10 years of life on them at minimum, not to mention you have some P-40's that have been sitting dormant for the better part of 6 years. Use what you've got before you start going out and buying new stuff.
 
EMD pulled the F59PHI from their catalog at least 5 years ago. IIRC among the last units built were for TRE. The sales for the units never came to fruition as they expected. The largest single user of passenger engines in the country is Amtrak, and if they're not buying from you there's a very limited market. Many of the Commuter agencies have been purchasing second hand engines that have been retired in recent years. As far as new fleets for the mid-west goes, I honestly don't think the aesthetics of matching motors to the height of the cars is high on the priority list. The P-42's still have another 10 years of life on them at minimum, not to mention you have some P-40's that have been sitting dormant for the better part of 6 years. Use what you've got before you start going out and buying new stuff.
If that only was the case, then the Surfliner would be using those Genesis that are sitting around. Genesis would be on the Sounder in the Northwest or North Carolina's 403b train. Since the states will be financing this you can sure bet they want something that screams fast or chic.
 
My point is valid for the supposed new fleet that is to be going into the mid-west. Assuming that the states aren't paying for the capital expenditure (which I'm assuming they won't) they can take what they get. They want to throw down the bucks for some new motors, parts, and training, sure, buy whatever you want.
 
... And hence the desire to acquire 130 bi-level corridor cars, so that they can be used to release all the single level Amfleets to be shipped back east.
I suppose the issue of Amfleet II shortage when they get to expand eastern LDs is a separate one.
What I gathered was that Viewliner II coach cars are a long-term desire, but in the short term setting up Amfleet Is to supplement the Amfleet IIs as cars for short-haul, quick turn-over passengers would work the problem fairly nicely. Not ideally, but the Amfleets aren't ideal long-haul cars, Is or IIs.

Makes sense for the Amfleet cars, but what does your source say about the AEM7 replacement? Does the ALPs have the inside track?
I didn't have a news interview. I had a 10 minute private conversation with the man. I personally am not interested in the AEM-7 replacement. Either they are gonna buy ALP derivatives or they are going to spend a fortune developing a boondoggle. With Boardman in charge, I'd suspect the former- he's pretty practical, but its not all in his hands, of course. Either way, I didn't discuss it.
 
Interesting from the "FY2010-2014 FIVE YEAR FINANCIAL PLAN":

Another item in our short term fleet plan is the conversion of our current AEM-7 locomotives. As

mentioned above, we will be procuring 20 new electric locomotives to replace the outdated DC

locomotives that are in use today. As they are taken out of service, Amtrak plans to convert these

locomotives to cab cars, removing the power function and returning them to service as baggage /

cab cars.

Looks like they will use the old AEM-7 as cabbages. Other then the Keystone what other NEC train would need a Cab car?
 
Is it possible that the options have been put in there anticipating extension of electrification to Richmond in the next 5 years?
There were two studies done on the Richmond to DC line. One was to increases capacity (add a third track) and a second to wire the line. the cost was in the 600-800 million for each project (total around $1.5 B). They seem to decide to increase the capacity and speed (up to 110 MPH) before they thing about electrification.

Here the link to the summary report:

http://www.drpt.virginia.gov/projects/wash...oncorridor.aspx

The Third Track, Franconia Hill ( AF-Ravensworth-Fairfax County), is under progress (have moved the 2 line to the center and about to add the 3rd line. 66/67 are not running south of Washington so they can add the track this week.
 
Interesting from the "FY2010-2014 FIVE YEAR FINANCIAL PLAN":
Another item in our short term fleet plan is the conversion of our current AEM-7 locomotives. As

mentioned above, we will be procuring 20 new electric locomotives to replace the outdated DC

locomotives that are in use today. As they are taken out of service, Amtrak plans to convert these

locomotives to cab cars, removing the power function and returning them to service as baggage /

cab cars.

Looks like they will use the old AEM-7 as cabbages. Other then the Keystone what other NEC train would need a Cab car?
Once converted to cabages, it doesn't matter where they are used. It doesn't have to be the NEC, they can go anywhere since they won't be drawing power from an overhead wire.

So they could land on the Keystones, the Downeaster, Michigan services, Hiawathas, Springfield shuttles, or where ever Amtrak deems appropriate.
 
Interesting from the "FY2010-2014 FIVE YEAR FINANCIAL PLAN":
Another item in our short term fleet plan is the conversion of our current AEM-7 locomotives. As

mentioned above, we will be procuring 20 new electric locomotives to replace the outdated DC

locomotives that are in use today. As they are taken out of service, Amtrak plans to convert these

locomotives to cab cars, removing the power function and returning them to service as baggage /

cab cars.

Looks like they will use the old AEM-7 as cabbages. Other then the Keystone what other NEC train would need a Cab car?
It's not cab cars they need, it's baggage cars (especially useful on 66/67, Pennsylvanian, Adirondack, Vermonter to name a few). But seeing as how there's already cabs on these units, there's no reason not to make it into a cabbage, especially if it means you can save the time it would take to either turn the whole train or transfer the engine to the opposite side of the consist.
 
Interesting from the "FY2010-2014 FIVE YEAR FINANCIAL PLAN":
Another item in our short term fleet plan is the conversion of our current AEM-7 locomotives. As

mentioned above, we will be procuring 20 new electric locomotives to replace the outdated DC

locomotives that are in use today. As they are taken out of service, Amtrak plans to convert these

locomotives to cab cars, removing the power function and returning them to service as baggage /

cab cars.

Looks like they will use the old AEM-7 as cabbages. Other then the Keystone what other NEC train would need a Cab car?
Once converted to cabages, it doesn't matter where they are used. It doesn't have to be the NEC, they can go anywhere since they won't be drawing power from an overhead wire.

So they could land on the Keystones, the Downeaster, Michigan services, Hiawathas, Springfield shuttles, or where ever Amtrak deems appropriate.
I think it would be funny to see on on the heartland flyer :)
 
Interesting from the "FY2010-2014 FIVE YEAR FINANCIAL PLAN":
Another item in our short term fleet plan is the conversion of our current AEM-7 locomotives. As

mentioned above, we will be procuring 20 new electric locomotives to replace the outdated DC

locomotives that are in use today. As they are taken out of service, Amtrak plans to convert these

locomotives to cab cars, removing the power function and returning them to service as baggage /

cab cars.

Looks like they will use the old AEM-7 as cabbages. Other then the Keystone what other NEC train would need a Cab car?
Once converted to cabages, it doesn't matter where they are used. It doesn't have to be the NEC, they can go anywhere since they won't be drawing power from an overhead wire.

So they could land on the Keystones, the Downeaster, Michigan services, Hiawathas, Springfield shuttles, or where ever Amtrak deems appropriate.
I think it would be funny to see on on the heartland flyer :)
Would look something like this!

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?...0942&nseq=1

Sounds to me like Amtrak is looking to retire the Metroliner cab cars. I'll be sad to see 'em go!
 
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It'll definitely be interesting to see these locomotives outside of Electrified territory! Who knows? If they run a day train to Atlanta from the NE, we might see them down here :p Though there is a WYE not too far out of the current station and if the Beltline goes to HSR, then the track is such the train will just loop...
 
Well there's nothing that said these cabbages couldn't be used as baggage cars on lines that would do low volume but it'd be a great service to have. A service like the Pennsylvanian immediately comes to mind. What will be interesting to see is how these are weighed down in comparison to how the F-40's were done. One of the issues with the F-40's is that when you pull out all the diesel components you lose a ton of weight. You have to compensate for this somehow so they don't just bounce off the rails.
 
Interesting from the "FY2010-2014 FIVE YEAR FINANCIAL PLAN":
Another item in our short term fleet plan is the conversion of our current AEM-7 locomotives. As

mentioned above, we will be procuring 20 new electric locomotives to replace the outdated DC

locomotives that are in use today. As they are taken out of service, Amtrak plans to convert these

locomotives to cab cars, removing the power function and returning them to service as baggage /

cab cars.

Looks like they will use the old AEM-7 as cabbages. Other then the Keystone what other NEC train would need a Cab car?
As others have pointed out, the use of old "Meatballs" or "Toasters" as "cabbages" would have nothing to do with where they originally ran, since they wouldn't be power units anymore. But the food imagery that converting the AEM-7s might generate...
 
I suspect that the New Haven trains will get the ex-Metroliners (as well as some Albany trains, and maybe even a few NYP-WAS regionals. It would allow for faster turning.) The Cabbages will probably go to trains that need baggage service as well as cab cars AND access to Penn.
 
Would look something like this!
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?...0942&nseq=1

Sounds to me like Amtrak is looking to retire the Metroliner cab cars. I'll be sad to see 'em go!
Looking at that pic, it looks like there is some sort of blue material covering the horns on the upper right part of the locomotive. Any guesses what that is and if it is a common practice?

8481.1234140255.jpg
 
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