Thruway bus to Maricopa

[NativeSon5859]

I'm curious as to the reason for Amtrak not offering a Thruway bus to Maricopa from downtown Phoenix? It just seems like it would make a lot of sense. I can't imagine it would be terribly difficult to start. What would be required (besides the bus, obviously) to get it going, and has it ever been looked at? I've heard that the station doesn't really offer any form of public transportation...maybe a cab? With it being a good distance away from PHX, it wouldn't be a cheap ride to say the least. Just seems like Amtrak is missing the boat on this one.

 

[saxman]

Most of Amtrak's buses are contracted out to other companies such as Greyhound. And the bus company has to be able to make money or get enough passengers to make it worth their while. It's sort of like airline codeshares. They feed passengers into each other. Many times the bus company will change its schedule or decide they aren't getting enough out of serving Amtrak passengers, so they break the contract. So it's not really Amtrak.

So when you have a train that runs 3 days a week and stops in the MRC between 12 AM and 1 AM, its hard to get a company willing to meet the train at those times only 3 days a week. It seems like its been talked about before, and I think that is the reason why.

Now if daily service ever happens, they have talked about getting a shuttle bus to downtown PHX. It'll be easier to find an operator that will run a van or bus 7 days a week during normal daylight hours.

 

[ayndim]

Most of Amtrak's buses are contracted out to other companies such as Greyhound. And the bus company has to be able to make money or get enough passengers to make it worth their while. It's sort of like airline codeshares. They feed passengers into each other. Many times the bus company will change its schedule or decide they aren't getting enough out of serving Amtrak passengers, so they break the contract. So it's not really Amtrak.
So when you have a train that runs 3 days a week and stops in the MRC between 12 AM and 1 AM, its hard to get a company willing to meet the train at those times only 3 days a week. It seems like its been talked about before, and I think that is the reason why.

Now if daily service ever happens, they have talked about getting a shuttle bus to downtown PHX. It'll be easier to find an operator that will run a van or bus 7 days a week during normal daylight hours.

While it is for commuters, and therefore is at morning/evening, there is a shuttle to Maricopa from downtown Phoenix. You would have to be hanging around in Maricopa for a few hours or until the next morning. Not ideal but would work in a pinch. Although, I think it is easier to find a ride down there. I know there has been talk of discontinuing it but not sure if it has happened. It appears to still be in services, according to the city's website.

http://www.maricopa-az.gov/development_services/transit.php

 

[alanh]

Even with daily service, if the current times are maintained (11pm EB, 1am WB) it means either two runs per day or people waiting two hours (more if it's late) for the WB to arrive. Also given the times, the service would pretty much be dedicated to Amtrak passengers only.

Amtrak did offer Thruway service to Tucson before the Maricopa station opened, but that just piggybacked on existing Greyhound service. Likewise, the Flagstaff Thruway uses existing Greyhound or Arizona Shuttle service.

The ideal solution would be reopening the Phoenix West line and routing back through Phoenix, but nobody has the money for it.

 

[ceblack]

I think the truly ideal solution would be to have Phoenix passengers board the Silver Horizon (ex-CZ dome lounge car that serves as Maricopa's station) for the portion of their journey between Phoenix and Maricopa! Okay, so that's not realistic on any level... but it sure would be sweet!

Or Arizona could follow New Mexico's lead and buy the Phoenix West line to run "Rail Runner West" as well as rerouting the Sunset Limited! Perhaps if Sen. McCain gets ousted from the Senate he can run for governor and push this through.

Back in reality, perhaps if the Sunset schedule changes to a late eastbound departure from LA the chance of getting a shuttle between Phoenix and Maricopa for that half of the train would improve.

 

[gswager]

I think the truly ideal solution would be to have Phoenix passengers board the Silver Horizon (ex-CZ dome lounge car that serves as Maricopa's station) for the portion of their journey between Phoenix and Maricopa! Okay, so that's not realistic on any level... but it sure would be sweet!
Or Arizona could follow New Mexico's lead and buy the Phoenix West line to run "Rail Runner West" as well as rerouting the Sunset Limited! Perhaps if Sen. McCain gets ousted from the Senate he can run for governor and push this through.

Back in reality, perhaps if the Sunset schedule changes to a late eastbound departure from LA the chance of getting a shuttle between Phoenix and Maricopa for that half of the train would improve.

There is a study to see if commuter train between Tucson and Phoenix is feasible or not. Nothing serious yet, it's all talk.

 

[Guest_George Harris_*]

If I recall correctly, there was a Phoenix-Maricopa bus for a while right after the train was shifted off the Phoenix line. Evidently the ridership was insufficient to make it worthwhile.

Or Arizona could follow New Mexico's lead and buy the Phoenix West line to run "Rail Runner West" as well as rerouting the Sunset Limited! Perhaps if Sen. McCain gets ousted from the Senate he can run for governor and push this through.

Big difference. The Albuquerque to the northeast line bought by the state of New Mexico really needed no work at all to run hihg speed passenger trains. The Phoenix line west needs a near complete rebuild.

 

[bretton88]

If I recall correctly, there was a Phoenix-Maricopa bus for a while right after the train was shifted off the Phoenix line. Evidently the ridership was insufficient to make it worthwhile.

Or Arizona could follow New Mexico's lead and buy the Phoenix West line to run "Rail Runner West" as well as rerouting the Sunset Limited! Perhaps if Sen. McCain gets ousted from the Senate he can run for governor and push this through.

Big difference. The Albuquerque to the northeast line bought by the state of New Mexico really needed no work at all to run hihg speed passenger trains. The Phoenix line west needs a near complete rebuild.

Almost true. The line north to Santa Fe was completely rebuilt by the state of New Mexico into the median of I25, hence why it cost 400 million dollars. The tracks of the Santa fe Southern where rebuilt to modern standards too. Now, The western line in Pheonix would probably cost more because they need to buy the right of way, but the line itself would probably cost as much as the railrunner.

Now there is good news, NARP says that Arizona is actively exploring reactivating the west line. Hopefully the feasibility study will be out soon. I don't know what communities it would serve, whether this line would be in a good area for commuter service, and this would be an awfully expensive project for just 2 amtrak trains a day. So i don't know how feasible it will be. The Union Pacific has indicated interest in providing some funds too, so they can restart freight service. All they will provide is money for basic freight capability though, anything more (like signals, great track condition for higher speeds, etc) would be up to the state of Arizona.

 

[alanh]

The west line could conceivably be used as a Buckeye-Phoenix commuter line, though that stretch of line is still in service. The out-of-service leg is west of the Palo Verde nuclear plant.

Other than that, though, it has little in-state use. The main use is for the heavily traveled Phoenix-Los Angeles route.

As of 2007, the active parts of the line were class 3 which would limit speeds to 60mph. UP recently installed welded rail to replace the old jointed rail, so it's possible it's been upgraded. The UP Sunset Line is class 4, which allows up to 80 (79 actually, because there's no automatic train stop).

(ADOT 2007 Rail Inventory)

If there was a Maricopa Thruway, it didn't last more than a year.

Passenger boardings in 2009:

Benson 1,098

Flagstaff 36,852

Kingman 9,537

Maricopa 7,662

Tucson 18,031

Williams Junction 6,341

Winslow 4,834

Yuma 3,689

Total Arizona Station Usage: 88,044