Ticket mixup

[oregon pioneer]

OK, so let me get this straight:

• If you have an e-ticket, and don't show up (or don't get it scanned on any segment), the entire rest of your trip will most likely be cancelled. But they won't give you back your money either.
• If you have a paper ticket, you're good. You paid for that seat, you've got it.

Seems to me, that if you paid for the seat, and they aren't refunding your money, that seat OUGHT to be yours NO MATTER WHAT. You paid for it! Cancelling the trip on you, and not refunding your money, is double-dipping at the customer's expense. This won't fly with me, and I think it won't fly with most everyone. If it happens to you, if you see it happen to someone else, we should all write to Amtrak and make this point.

Nonetheless, I am extremely grateful to this discussion board for making me aware of potential pitfalls. You folks have saved me, and a lot of others, from omissions that would cost us dearly. Thank you all, you're wonderful!

 

[SarahZ]

Seems to me, that if you paid for the seat, and they aren't refunding your money, that seat OUGHT to be yours NO MATTER WHAT. You paid for it! Cancelling the trip on you, and not refunding your money, is double-dipping at the customer's expense.

I believe they were following the airlines' model when they implemented this. If someone books a trip and doesn't show up, they can't resell that seat, as the train has already left. The airlines' don't refund no-shows either, because it costs them money in seats they can't fill.

On one hand, I can see where they're going with this. No-shows cost money. On the other hand, Amtrak's system isn't as "tight" as the airlines' system, and it's possible to board later down the line. It makes me wonder just how many no-shows they've had in the past (and who, out of those no-shows, actually boarded at a later station).

Also, as we can see, human error is causing a LOT of trouble. You cannot get on a plane without the gate agent scanning your boarding pass. I think the best thing for Amtrak to do would be to scan tickets as people board, right there at the door. I always thought it was odd that I could get on the train and sit there, enjoying the ride, without having my ticket checked for sometimes as many as four or five station stops. If the conductors stand at the door(s) and scan tickets, it would be pretty hard to miss people. I think that's how it should be anyway, as it makes it harder to board without a ticket too.

Anyway, the bottom line is that it's a good idea to book itineraries separately if possible. Unfortunately, with AGR points, that's impossible sometimes. I'm not going to use 2000 points to travel to CHI and then another 15,000 to go to ABQ when I can use 15,000 for the entire trip. BUT, you can be sure that when I board in KAL, I'm going to stalk the conductor until I hear that beep.

 

[amamba]

The other problem is that if you show up late for a flight airlines will try to re accommodate you and they allow same day changes for a fee. It's patently absurd on the NEC that same day changes price you to current bucket.

I was traveling last Sunday from PHL back to PVD. I called to change to an earlier train but the idiot at the call center put me on the 11 am train instead of the 1 pm (and she did this at 12 pm). I'm not sure how I was supposed to be on a train that had already left the station. And charged me $60 to do so.

 

[SubwayNut]

Also, as we can see, human error is causing a LOT of trouble. You cannot get on a plane without the gate agent scanning your boarding pass. I think the best thing for Amtrak to do would be to scan tickets as people board, right there at the door. I always thought it was odd that I could get on the train and sit there, enjoying the ride, without having my ticket checked for sometimes as many as four or five station stops. If the conductors stand at the door(s) and scan tickets, it would be pretty hard to miss people. I think that's how it should be anyway, as it makes it harder to board without a ticket too.

This would drastically increase dwell times on most busy routes, particularly on the NEC.

The other problem is that if you show up late for a flight airlines will try to re accommodate you and they allow same day changes for a fee. It's patently absurd on the NEC that same day changes price you to current bucket.

I was traveling last Sunday from PHL back to PVD. I called to change to an earlier train but the idiot at the call center put me on the 11 am train instead of the 1 pm (and she did this at 12 pm). I'm not sure how I was supposed to be on a train that had already left the station. And charged me $60 to do so.

Did you get the money and difference in fare back? Clearly not your fault.

 

[amamba]

Also, as we can see, human error is causing a LOT of trouble. You cannot get on a plane without the gate agent scanning your boarding pass. I think the best thing for Amtrak to do would be to scan tickets as people board, right there at the door. I always thought it was odd that I could get on the train and sit there, enjoying the ride, without having my ticket checked for sometimes as many as four or five station stops. If the conductors stand at the door(s) and scan tickets, it would be pretty hard to miss people. I think that's how it should be anyway, as it makes it harder to board without a ticket too.

This would drastically increase dwell times on most busy routes, particularly on the NEC.

The other problem is that if you show up late for a flight airlines will try to re accommodate you and they allow same day changes for a fee. It's patently absurd on the NEC that same day changes price you to current bucket.

I was traveling last Sunday from PHL back to PVD. I called to change to an earlier train but the idiot at the call center put me on the 11 am train instead of the 1 pm (and she did this at 12 pm). I'm not sure how I was supposed to be on a train that had already left the station. And charged me $60 to do so.

Did you get the money and difference in fare back? Clearly not your fault.

It's a long story but I did get a seat on the 1 pm train that I wanted to be on thanks to the staff in the Club Acela Lounge. Thank god I had a lounge voucher because the folks at the ticket window were less than helpful and almost had me in tears.

 

[SarahZ]

Also, as we can see, human error is causing a LOT of trouble. You cannot get on a plane without the gate agent scanning your boarding pass. I think the best thing for Amtrak to do would be to scan tickets as people board, right there at the door. I always thought it was odd that I could get on the train and sit there, enjoying the ride, without having my ticket checked for sometimes as many as four or five station stops. If the conductors stand at the door(s) and scan tickets, it would be pretty hard to miss people. I think that's how it should be anyway, as it makes it harder to board without a ticket too.

This would drastically increase dwell times on most busy routes, particularly on the NEC.

Excellent point. I didn't think about the NEC.

 

[jis]

Also, as we can see, human error is causing a LOT of trouble. You cannot get on a plane without the gate agent scanning your boarding pass. I think the best thing for Amtrak to do would be to scan tickets as people board, right there at the door. I always thought it was odd that I could get on the train and sit there, enjoying the ride, without having my ticket checked for sometimes as many as four or five station stops. If the conductors stand at the door(s) and scan tickets, it would be pretty hard to miss people. I think that's how it should be anyway, as it makes it harder to board without a ticket too.

That would be quite unworkable on the NEC, unless all platforms are protected by turnstiles that can read tickets. Indeed, the Japaneses and the British to some extent have headed in that direction. Achieving that itself will be a challenge at places like New York Penn Station. It might be easier in Philadelphia, Wilmington, Baltimore and Washington DC. In general it will not work in stations where the same platform is shared between Amtrak and other railroads.
But at least for the moment, the current systems seems to work just fine. IMHO the problems with the current system on the NEC are not severe enough to justify spending precious resources in fixing it rather than on some more pressing needs.

 

[neroden]

I think the best thing for Amtrak to do would be to scan tickets as people board, right there at the door.

It's tooooo slooooow. The trains would be sitting for 15 minutes at Syracuse just boarding.

As almost every train operator in the world realizes, the way you do this is to scan at entry to the *platform*. This requires either turnstiles or agents at the entrance to platform, and it requires letting people onto the platform well before train departure time.

Once on the platform, you need to unload and load the train ASAP.

 

[SarahZ]

Yes, you've all made excellent points. I stand corrected.

 

[neroden]

Indeed, the Japaneses and the British to some extent have headed in that direction. Achieving that itself will be a challenge at places like New York Penn Station. It might be easier in Philadelphia, Wilmington, Baltimore and Washington DC. In general it will not work in stations where the same platform is shared between Amtrak and other railroads.

The British do it on platforms which are shared by different trains. You have to have your ticket scanned to get on the platform; you could perfectly well get on the wrong train at that point, and they deal with that with random checks later on. I'm sure there is some small sub-population of scammers in the UK who buy tickets for very short trips, which let them past the turnstile, and then jump on longer-haul trains, but it doesn't seem to be common enough for the British to worry about it.

 

[trainfan]

Just an update, we it made back to Chi in our bedroom, when we checked on our Wolverine

Train to Jxn the agent said our whole trip was never lifted and we had been credited back the

trip ?? We really did go!!!

I could just buy ticket to Jxn and save my free West Coast trip for2 for another day!!!

Trainfan

 

[Ryan]

What a clusterflock.

 

[vickinish]

I had an AGR agent handle a Surfliner ticketing for me and my husband as I needed to let them know about my husband's oxygen and walker. For some reason he set it up as two separate e-tickets, both were round trip.

Once on the train I handed both e-tickets to the conductor for scanning. A bit later in the trip I checked my email and found a message from Amtrak. It informed me that, because he was a no show, my husband's return trip had been cancelled. I found the conductor, he stated that he had indeed only scanned the one e-ticket as he assumed we were both on the one. He got it fixed.

The point here is that I was notified of the cancellation and it was quite timely. So checking email during any trip is wise. That would at least catch a cancellation due to a failed scan.

 

[Train person]

What a useless, ill thought out policy. All very well doing this on airlines when you can be near as 100% certain that you have a no show! but when subject to the real life conditions of day to day Amtrak screw ups, errors and laziness, then it's just a recipe for disaster and alienating passengers when it's not their fault.

This and the ongoing (?) overcharging 'glitch' show an organisation that has lost its way with dealing with paying customers/passengers.

 

[SarahZ]

If they want to stop losing revenue over no-shows, they could keep the policy of not refunding the no-show and get rid of the "cancel the rest of your trip" nonsense. That way, they still get the money for the seat, since they can't resell it, but the passenger doesn't have to worry about losing their LD connection if they board farther down the line.

 

[MattW]

Not everyone has email available to them throughout the trip. Along the NEC and Surfliner routes, I'm sure there's decently good coverage, enough to check e-mail, but many long distance trains might not have good reception.

 

[oregon pioneer]

Not everyone has email available to them throughout the trip. Along the NEC and Surfliner routes, I'm sure there's decently good coverage, enough to check e-mail, but many long distance trains might not have good reception.

Most long distance trains (EB, CZ, TE, SL, LSL, and Palmetto in my personal experience, probably also Cardinal and Crescent) have no public wi-fi on them at all, and unless you own a smartphone with roaming data privileges (and are within range of a cell tower), you cannot check email at all for the full trip. The only way would be to get to a station with wi-fi, and have a layover long enough to go inside (as I did in Denver last December).

 

[PaulM]

Seems to me, that if you paid for the seat, and they aren't refunding your money, that seat OUGHT to be yours NO MATTER WHAT. You paid for it! Cancelling the trip on you, and not refunding your money, is double-dipping at the customer's expense.

I believe they were following the airlines' model when they implemented this. If someone books a trip and doesn't show up, they can't resell that seat, as the train has already left.

But why should they resell it? They already have your money. Now under the old policy, you could no-show and get your money back less a 10%? fee or a 100% voucher. So I would expect Amtrak to try to resell it in that case, but not "double dip" under the new policy where a no-show loses everything.

The sloppiness of the system just adds to the sharpness of the business practice.

Edit: Sorry Sarah! I missed the latter post where you came to the same conclusion.

 

[vickinish]

Not everyone has email available to them throughout the trip. Along the NEC and Surfliner routes, I'm sure there's decently good coverage, enough to check e-mail, but many long distance trains might not have good reception.

Most long distance trains (EB, CZ, TE, SL, LSL, and Palmetto in my personal experience, probably also Cardinal and Crescent) have no public wi-fi on them at all, and unless you own a smartphone with roaming data privileges (and are within range of a cell tower), you cannot check email at all for the full trip. The only way would be to get to a station with wi-fi, and have a layover long enough to go inside (as I did in Denver last December).

Yes, you would need a Smart cell phone which many, many people have. And cell towers are found in any town you travel through, even in the mysterious state of Montana. But I agree that the system as it now functions is very poor. I like Sarah's idea of cancel only the no show part.

 

[SarahZ]

Seems to me, that if you paid for the seat, and they aren't refunding your money, that seat OUGHT to be yours NO MATTER WHAT. You paid for it! Cancelling the trip on you, and not refunding your money, is double-dipping at the customer's expense.

I believe they were following the airlines' model when they implemented this. If someone books a trip and doesn't show up, they can't resell that seat, as the train has already left.

But why should they resell it? They already have your money. Now under the old policy, you could no-show and get your money back less a 10%? fee or a 100% voucher. So I would expect Amtrak to try to resell it in that case, but not "double dip" under the new policy where a no-show loses everything.

The sloppiness of the system just adds to the sharpness of the business practice.

Edit: Sorry Sarah! I missed the latter post where you came to the same conclusion.

Yeah, I was originally under the impression all of your fares would be refunded, including the no-show. I know better now.

 

[camr]

What happened to us was that the young lady driving the bus to take us from Emeryville to the SF wharf did not scan ANYONES ticket. She loaded the bus and drove off. Four days later we attempted to board the bus to continue our trip back to Chicago and the bus driver informed us that our tickets had been cancelled. This turned into a trip from hell, simply because Amtrak chose to allow poorly trained contract bus drivers to handle the Emeryville shuttle.

What we eventually discovered was that at any point in a trip, if a ticket does not get scanned, the ENTIRE remainder of the trip is cancelled. In our case, Emeryville to Chicago via the Texas Eagle was cancelled. I cannot begin to tell you how upsetting it was to be standing on a curb thousands of miles from home, only to be told we had no tickets.

A public relations nightmare!

 

[SarahZ]

What happened to us was that the young lady driving the bus to take us from Emeryville to the SF wharf did not scan ANYONES ticket. She loaded the bus and drove off. Four days later we attempted to board the bus to continue our trip back to Chicago and the bus driver informed us that our tickets had been cancelled. This turned into a trip from hell, simply because Amtrak chose to allow poorly trained contract bus drivers to handle the Emeryville shuttle.

What we eventually discovered was that at any point in a trip, if a ticket does not get scanned, the ENTIRE remainder of the trip is cancelled. In our case, Emeryville to Chicago via the Texas Eagle was cancelled. I cannot begin to tell you how upsetting it was to be standing on a curb thousands of miles from home, only to be told we had no tickets.

A public relations nightmare!

I'm sorry that happened to you.

Did you call Customer Relations? They can pass that onto the bus driver's manager and (hopefully) give you a voucher to make up for the error (which was Amtrak's, not yours). Call 1-800-USA-RAIL and ask for "Customer Relations". It's a separate department.