anuenue
Train Attendant
What can you tell me about the Trails and Rails program besides that it's on some routes, sometimes? Is it worth attending? And is there a way to find out if it'll be taking place on my dates and routes? Thanks.
Trails and Rails
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BCL
Engineer
Had it on the Coast Starlight in 2015 from Seattle to Portland. While I suppose the name has a certain connotation, our narrator was mostly going over the human history and interesting sites along the way. There were a few corny jokes thrown in. It was a decent way to spend time in the observation lounge.
ehbowen
Engineer
It's definitely worth listening to if you have any interest in learning about the history of your route or the towns and country near it. On our last trip on the Empire Builder through Marias Pass I heard a fascinating anecdote about a derailment thirty years past which dumped a large amount of corn by the tracks. It was never properly cleaned up, and after sitting out in the weather for a year or so it fermented...and the grizzly bears found it. Grizzly bears have long lives and long memories; even thirty years later some of them still come down to trackside hoping to find more hooch....
The program is entirely run by volunteers, so you can't ever depend on them being aboard a particular train. Amtrak provides meals, lodging and transportation but they volunteer their time. However, the coverage during summer travel months is usually pretty good.
The program is entirely run by volunteers, so you can't ever depend on them being aboard a particular train. Amtrak provides meals, lodging and transportation but they volunteer their time. However, the coverage during summer travel months is usually pretty good.
I have rarely gone to the SSL to hear the talk, and the SSL has often been packed when I have, but I have enjoyed it on the few occasions when it has been broadcast throughout the train. (I heard the same story about the grizzly bears on Marias Pass.)
As ehbowen says, it is presented by volunteers. I was once told by one of the volunteers that they get no benefit from Amtrak. In other words, in addition to volunteering their time, they buy their own tickets, buy (or bring) their own meals, and pay for their lodging if the have an overnight at the end of their run (which they normally would). Perhaps I misunderstood or was being misled, because I would not expect the level of coverage that I have seen if what I was told is correct. Maybe it varies by route or section of route?
[Edited to correct typo.]
As ehbowen says, it is presented by volunteers. I was once told by one of the volunteers that they get no benefit from Amtrak. In other words, in addition to volunteering their time, they buy their own tickets, buy (or bring) their own meals, and pay for their lodging if the have an overnight at the end of their run (which they normally would). Perhaps I misunderstood or was being misled, because I would not expect the level of coverage that I have seen if what I was told is correct. Maybe it varies by route or section of route?
[Edited to correct typo.]
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rtabern
Conductor
I was a Trails & Rails guide on the Empire Builder from 2007 to 2010 from Chicago to Minnesota. Then, my wife I started up a Trails & Rails program from scratch on the Southwest Chief that ran from Chicago to La Plata, MO from 2013 to 2015. We served as the Chicago Coordinators of Trails & Rails during the same period and were also the lead safety trainers for Trails & Rails out of Chicago. So I know the "ins and out" of Trails & Rails pretty well.
Guides are all volunteers for the National Park Service and Amtrak and DO NOT get paid anything for their service... and you DO NOT get any discounts on personal travel when you are not doing a program. You DO get your tickets covered for when you are doing a program and dining car meals IF the program operates for more than 4 to 5 hours in length. You also DO get motel rooms covered if you are one of the few programs that remain that require an overnight turn somewhere. As you would imagine in this age of sequestration and cuts --- almost all new programs are mainly short runs to avoid having to give volunteers meals and covering their overnight lodging costs.
One of my biggest issues with Trails & Rails (and the reason why we eventually resigned) was the lack of respect we got from those who managed the program. Not so much Amtrak -- but more so at the National Park Service level. Our program that operated between Chicago and Minnesota had 70 volunteers --- and was considered by many to be one of the strongest Trails & Rails programs in the country. We ran daily on #7 and #8 from May 10 to Labor Day. People loved having us on the train through Chicago, Milwaukee, the Wisconsin Dells and along the Mississippi River in SE Minnesota. In Late 2010, a new NPS superintendent began working at our sponsor park in St. Paul and decided that $8,000 per year in hotel rooms we were racking up in MSP during our turns was not something that he wanted to keep paying for. Our program was completely cut with very little notice... and our dozens of volunteers were basically told to go and pound sand. I think after enough bitching, some volunteers were assigned to a "new" 62 mile daytrip route through the Indiana Dunes -- a ploy just to kinda keep those displaced volunteers quiet. But really --- Amtrak or the NPS couldn't find $8,000 somewhere to keep a program alive?? (They were getting a $27 rate at the hotel per room) Again, makes your feel reeeeeallll appreciated when the NPS says your service isn't worth giving you a $27 room at the Days Inn Midway.
Despite getting kinda screwed over with Trails & Rails in 2010, my wife and I approached Amtrak and the NPS in December 2012 about starting up a new T&R program out of Chicago on the Southwest Chief to La Plata, MO. We got all of the approvals needed and our first program rolled out on May 18, 2013... and we ran strong through IL, IA, and MO for over 2 years on #3 and #4. Through the agreement we had with Amtrak and the NPS concerning this program --- almost all of the expenses (including portable speakers and overnight lodging) were to be covered by the non-profit American Passenger Rail Heritage Foundation (APRHF) in La Plata. Again, NPS and Amtrak did not want to pony up the bill for any new T&R programs that they had to pay for hotel stays for. It worked out well because the APRHF was affiliated with the Depot Inn & Suites at the time and we got all our rooms covered that way out in La Plata. Since there were no rangers anywhere between Chicago and La Plata, we reported directly to Jim Miculka, the founder and head of Trails & Rails. He operates out of a small office on the campus of Texas A&M University where he is really the only NPS employee. We were less than enthused with his negative attitude and constantly making it increasingly difficult for our program to survive. His nearest boss is 700 miles away in Atlanta -- there is no direct supervision there -- and he does whatever he wants pretty much. Even though he founded T&R back 20 years ago -- we feel he lost all passion for what he is doing. I guess I don't blame him -- I think he gets to be retirement age in a few years.
Again, it's too bad the NPS doesn't have more passion for T&R -- it could really be turned into a really cool thing. Rumor has it when Jim-bo retires, oversight of the program will be moved back to a ranger in DC so they can have more oversight of everything.
Anyway, the NPS ended its agreement with the APRHF in July 2015 -- and the APRHF started its own onboard narration program called Rail Rangers. Our displaced Empire Builder and Southwest Chief guides do programs on the Hoosier State on select Sunday mornings now (in partnership with INDOT and Iowa Pacific) and do narration on many private rail trips out of Chicago. It's very, very, nice. We feel appreciated on those trains and it's so awesome not dealing with the NPS bureaucracy. Check us out at www.railrangers.org -- we are a 501( c)(3) non-profit and we make no money off sharing this link.
Guides are all volunteers for the National Park Service and Amtrak and DO NOT get paid anything for their service... and you DO NOT get any discounts on personal travel when you are not doing a program. You DO get your tickets covered for when you are doing a program and dining car meals IF the program operates for more than 4 to 5 hours in length. You also DO get motel rooms covered if you are one of the few programs that remain that require an overnight turn somewhere. As you would imagine in this age of sequestration and cuts --- almost all new programs are mainly short runs to avoid having to give volunteers meals and covering their overnight lodging costs.
One of my biggest issues with Trails & Rails (and the reason why we eventually resigned) was the lack of respect we got from those who managed the program. Not so much Amtrak -- but more so at the National Park Service level. Our program that operated between Chicago and Minnesota had 70 volunteers --- and was considered by many to be one of the strongest Trails & Rails programs in the country. We ran daily on #7 and #8 from May 10 to Labor Day. People loved having us on the train through Chicago, Milwaukee, the Wisconsin Dells and along the Mississippi River in SE Minnesota. In Late 2010, a new NPS superintendent began working at our sponsor park in St. Paul and decided that $8,000 per year in hotel rooms we were racking up in MSP during our turns was not something that he wanted to keep paying for. Our program was completely cut with very little notice... and our dozens of volunteers were basically told to go and pound sand. I think after enough bitching, some volunteers were assigned to a "new" 62 mile daytrip route through the Indiana Dunes -- a ploy just to kinda keep those displaced volunteers quiet. But really --- Amtrak or the NPS couldn't find $8,000 somewhere to keep a program alive?? (They were getting a $27 rate at the hotel per room) Again, makes your feel reeeeeallll appreciated when the NPS says your service isn't worth giving you a $27 room at the Days Inn Midway.
Despite getting kinda screwed over with Trails & Rails in 2010, my wife and I approached Amtrak and the NPS in December 2012 about starting up a new T&R program out of Chicago on the Southwest Chief to La Plata, MO. We got all of the approvals needed and our first program rolled out on May 18, 2013... and we ran strong through IL, IA, and MO for over 2 years on #3 and #4. Through the agreement we had with Amtrak and the NPS concerning this program --- almost all of the expenses (including portable speakers and overnight lodging) were to be covered by the non-profit American Passenger Rail Heritage Foundation (APRHF) in La Plata. Again, NPS and Amtrak did not want to pony up the bill for any new T&R programs that they had to pay for hotel stays for. It worked out well because the APRHF was affiliated with the Depot Inn & Suites at the time and we got all our rooms covered that way out in La Plata. Since there were no rangers anywhere between Chicago and La Plata, we reported directly to Jim Miculka, the founder and head of Trails & Rails. He operates out of a small office on the campus of Texas A&M University where he is really the only NPS employee. We were less than enthused with his negative attitude and constantly making it increasingly difficult for our program to survive. His nearest boss is 700 miles away in Atlanta -- there is no direct supervision there -- and he does whatever he wants pretty much. Even though he founded T&R back 20 years ago -- we feel he lost all passion for what he is doing. I guess I don't blame him -- I think he gets to be retirement age in a few years.
Again, it's too bad the NPS doesn't have more passion for T&R -- it could really be turned into a really cool thing. Rumor has it when Jim-bo retires, oversight of the program will be moved back to a ranger in DC so they can have more oversight of everything.
Anyway, the NPS ended its agreement with the APRHF in July 2015 -- and the APRHF started its own onboard narration program called Rail Rangers. Our displaced Empire Builder and Southwest Chief guides do programs on the Hoosier State on select Sunday mornings now (in partnership with INDOT and Iowa Pacific) and do narration on many private rail trips out of Chicago. It's very, very, nice. We feel appreciated on those trains and it's so awesome not dealing with the NPS bureaucracy. Check us out at www.railrangers.org -- we are a 501( c)(3) non-profit and we make no money off sharing this link.
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Check out https://www.amtrak.com/trails-rails-heritage-appreciation-during-your-train-ridewhere you can see the routes and locations on each route that the programs are offered. There is a 2016 schedule in PDF format that you can view just above the train table. I am sure that the schedule will be pretty similar to 2016's for this year. Because it is all volunteer based it could change from year to year however.
Also, check out https://www.nps.gov/subjects/amtraktrailsandrails/trains.htmand https://www.nps.gov/subjects/amtraktrailsandrails/index.htm which is almost the same as the Amtrak site, just no schedule.
Also, check out youtube. https://youtu.be/dKy2EqiHjHc?list=PL1CE066830B8B6CD1has a good playlist to give a little taste of each route's T&R program. Pop quiz, what is wrong with the Adirondack's promo video?
Also, check out https://www.nps.gov/subjects/amtraktrailsandrails/trains.htmand https://www.nps.gov/subjects/amtraktrailsandrails/index.htm which is almost the same as the Amtrak site, just no schedule.
Also, check out youtube. https://youtu.be/dKy2EqiHjHc?list=PL1CE066830B8B6CD1has a good playlist to give a little taste of each route's T&R program. Pop quiz, what is wrong with the Adirondack's promo video?
Rob: I'm wondering with the Financial trouble that IP is having, (rumored Bankruptcy) if Amtrak will end up having to run the Hooosier State again and yall's great Program will once again fall victim to Petty Bureaucrats in the Government?
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rtabern
Conductor
Hey Bob D: As of now the Hoosier State is running as it always has. We have had guides on every Sunday AM in January and are scheduled to have guides on most Sunday's in February and March. We hope the program continues. As Executive Director of Rail Rangers, I would like this program to go yearround. I never got why Trails and Rails is mostly summers only. Its all volunteer so why not go yearround? In fact you have better programs when its not jam packed on the train. NPS is all about numbers for funding so thats my guess. On the Chief it was difficult to present a program in the summer trying to shout over all the scouts who didnt give two licks about what you were talking about. INDOT and IPH have been great to work with. We got two hotels in West Lafayette that sponsor us and provide rooms for our guides. Rail Rangers was only intended to be on private rail excursions (didnt want to deal with Amtrak and NPS with Mr. Miculka still around) but on a private rail trip last summer Mr. Ellis was aboard... he was impressed with our group and the Hoosier deal was struck up. We will keep doing ir as long as we can.
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I really wish Amtrak's audio channel selector in the rooms worked and that the Rails to Trails guide could use one of the channels. As I said earlier, the Lounge is often packed and one time the commentary did come over the speaker in the room. (Was that because some switch was set incorrectly in the SSL?) I don't think the program should be able to exclude disinterested folks from the SSL, but there are often more interested people than can be accommodated.
On the other hand, when those disinterested travelers start making enough noise that the interested travelers cannot hear the guide, it might be time to kick them out of the lounge.
KmH
Engineer
For those of us that are hearing impaired, a graphical Trails & Rails presentation would be nice.
ScouseAndy
Lead Service Attendant
Why they can't loan out headsets to passengers who want to hear about it all through the train and let those who don't want to listen to it can enjoy the journey unhindered.
Bill
Service Attendant
I think they provide a great service and like seeing them when I am on the same train.
trainman74
Conductor
Because if they're not going to pay $8,000 for volunteers' hotel rooms, they're not going to deal with the expense of equipping and maintaining a system like that.
rtabern
Conductor
Exactly. A big reason Trails and Rails is so disorganized is each National Park Service unit funds their local program as they see fit. The Klondike Gold Rush NHP in Seattle provides a stellar program on the Empire Builder and Starlight. They put money to it and it shows. Other parks dont really care about it. Like I mentioned... the change in park superintendents in 2010 at Mississippi National River in MSP resulted in our program getting canned. Ironocally the same Superintendent is now at Indiana Dunes National Lakeshore near Chicago and he used track work on the Wolverine to kill off most of the program's 2016 runs. Docents dont even know if they will be back in 2017 or not yet. Again **** poor management and oversight and lack of uniformity by the NPS.
rtabern
Conductor
A good suggestion but even if the inroom channel things still worked it would not be very practical for the guide. The guide would have to stand in the lower level of a coach or sleeper to access the PA and do their program. Its really hard spotting stuff upcoming out the little window in the door. Some programs are 4-6 hours in length too and most docents are elderly. (We are 37 and I think we were among the youngest guides in all of T&R). It would be cool if the PA could have been rigged up to somewhere in the upper lounge car... then youre talking!! When we did our programs we would place our wireless speakers so that half the car would hear us. If you didnt want to listen there was an option to move. Its the same thing we do on the Hoosier.
ScouseAndy
Lead Service Attendant
But then they can charge a few dollars - cover the cost of the equipment and sundry costs such as the hotels.
Yes there'd be the initial outlay which would be the stumbling block but if a grant could be sourced for 1 route it could then pay for it self then eventually pay for another route over time and rolled out slowly. You wouldn't even need more then 2 sets if done for just a small stretch of a trip.
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anuenue
Train Attendant
Thank you everyone for so much info! I really hope I have a chance to experience a presentation or two!
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