Trump and Amtrak/Budget cutting funding

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If this budget does pass, and they end up cutting long distance service, when would it take effect? Can I book something for this November? Or will it take until 2018 for anything to actually happen?
The budget isn't going to pass as originally proposed; It never does. To answer your question, though, the next fiscal year starts October 1st, and in theory any programs not funded would end as of that date. However, Congress very rarely anymore passes any sort of budget by the deadline and agencies (including Amtrak) are funded by a continuing resolution (CR) at previous levels.

In short, November is safe. But, so is 2018.
 
GabbyGirl: although Trump could change this, the substantial curtailment or removal of a route requires a 180-day Train-Off notice, and provision for public comment.

So you get 6-months. And the uproar from such a cancellation would probably result in some of those trains regaining funding through various means. At least temporarily. Trumps budget doesn't forbid Amtrak from running LD trains, it defunds them. They can be funded through other means, and it is likely Congress itself would reverse some or all of that, once it actually goes into effect.

The problem at this moment is that the various people who fight for this stuff are being stupid (literal defintion: being in a stupor and failing to respond in a reasoned manner) and assuming it won't get far enough that a budget will actually pass doing so. If it actually does, they will likely cease being so stupid.

The US Capitol building is an expensive and beautiful edifice representing US power and prestige. However, all Congress really needs is two lecture halls of appropriate size, as seen in college campuses, and a few office buildings to house their staff and a few hearing rooms. Few people would consider the Capitol a waste, but in terms of bare bones requirements, it certainly is. It's need is ephemeral.
Except that the US Capitol wasnt always overrun with excess space; the Supreme Court was also housed there until they moved into their own digs. In fact, thats a better example of overkill, since when does a court need such a massive edifice which looks more like a memorial than a functional building? Yet, I would imagine part of the reason was to impart an air of confidence and everlasting hope at a time in the nations history when despair was rampant and hope in short supply.
To extrapolate another example, my state capitol is undergoing a multi-year renovation which will triple the number of committee meeting rooms. Previously, there was adequate space for most of upper-level state government for most of the year. But when the legislature is in session, rooms which are normally offices became cramped meeting spaces. Point being, when you need the space you need the space, even if you dont need it 365 days/year. Would it be that we lived in the Harry Potter universe where buildings could automatically expand and contract based on the needs at any given time.

So it is with Amtrak. There are probably non-passenger citizens who step outside a bar or on their porch for a smoke (or while waiting at a crossing) during a station stop in January and February and see empty seats in the coach cars and think What a waste! No wonder the federal budget wants to eliminate long distance trains. But they dont realize that during June/July/August the cars are full, or that unlike the airlines, Amtrak cant just move equipment around to fit the amount of passengers at any given time.

But on the other hand, having such weapons available if China or Russia can get serious about underwater boats... so is it waste?
Or are all the missles a waste if the 'Little Fat Kid' in North Korea decides to see if some of his new toys down the line will get rid of some of his bullies?
I wasn't talking about the space present in the Capitol building. I was talking about its grandiose design and ornamentation and expensive materials. An appropriately sized brutalist structure with 8ft ceilings made out of brick would do the job just as well. The question is, is it a waste to spend money on the purpose of demonstrating might, power, beauty, hope, and wealth?

I personally think that our country building a Capital building (Capitol is the name of our nations Capital building) that showed the hopes and dreams our nation had at the time it was built was not a waste. At the time we were a tiny little nebbish who defeated a large navy run by an arrogant and inept king. We were insurgent antimonarch liberals who had a lot of infighting (then as now) and we needed to demonstrate- to ourselves as well as others - that we really were a nation of United States (to quote Lincoln) "conceived in liberty and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal."

It was a radical idea at the time. We were small and weak, our federal government very weakly funded and always on the brink of financial collapse (it would remain so until the creation of income tax). To capture the belief of its people, our country built a magnificent structure, creating a building- an independant city, even- to rally around.

This building, being more than was absolutely required to run a bare-bones government, could be considered waste- but its purpose had purpose. Understanding the value of self-esteem, which we have come to not have- even patriots ring hollow these days- is the key to understanding how to make America great.

We aren't close to united. We sit around kvetching about who gets what, and how we pay taxes for things that don't directly help us, and god forbid, supporting our fellow man. Because people define freedom as the right to be a rotten human being without being given the respect (or rather lack of respect) a rotten human being deserves.

I'm ranting, but I do wish to point out that I am doing so non politically. This problem is entirely bi-partisan. Support for Amtrak is a matter of denying minuscule amounts of money in order to provide additional transportation. It's about denying things to people because providing this costs you less than a buck a year, and god forbid anybody ever contribute and share for what in the long term would be mutual benefit.

And that's the problem with our country- we have learned to discourage long term investment even if it's cost for all involved is much greater to all involved. I love how we save money on road investment. I've replaced four front tires and had 3 suspension alignments this year in honor of all the money we save. End rant.
 
If this budget does pass, and they end up cutting long distance service, when would it take effect? Can I book something for this November? Or will it take until 2018 for anything to actually happen?
You get to share the experience I had when I booked a round-trip from Houston to L.A. in sleeper for eleven family members, seven of whom were first-time Amtrak travelers, in July 2005 for travel in May 2006...and then had GWB propose cutting all funding to Amtrak with the intent of driving it into bankruptcy. Had that occurred I couldn't even be sure of getting my ticket purchase refunded...unsecured creditors can be far down the line in an actual bankruptcy, although political considerations could have weighed events in our favor. I did purchase trip insurance (mainly for medical coverage...2 seniors and 6 young children), but there still could have been some issues and certainly some hassle.

However, I am pleased to report that the trip came out well and all of the extended family enjoyed it very much...even in spite of Simplified Dining Service which was in effect at the time.
 
GabbyGirl: although Trump could change this, the substantial curtailment or removal of a route requires a 180-day Train-Off notice, and provision for public comment.

So you get 6-months. And the uproar from such a cancellation would probably result in some of those trains regaining funding through various means. At least temporarily. Trumps budget doesn't forbid Amtrak from running LD trains, it defunds them. They can be funded through other means, and it is likely Congress itself would reverse some or all of that, once it actually goes into effect.

The problem at this moment is that the various people who fight for this stuff are being stupid (literal defintion: being in a stupor and failing to respond in a reasoned manner) and assuming it won't get far enough that a budget will actually pass doing so. If it actually does, they will likely cease being so stupid.
No 180-day notice of discontinuance is required when service is eliminated due to lack of appropriations. That said, you cannot just shut the system down overnight; Preparations would have to be made. Potentially, in a political debacle which omitted funding at the 11th hour or something, Amtrak might well have sufficient resources to limp along for a few weeks (or months) until Congress got its act together and restored funding.

Oh, and those of us saying the Trump proposed budget will not pass are not being stupid by any definition. We just know history and how the political process works. The time will come - and soon enough - to let your voice be heard to our elected officials.
 
Yup. Rep Frelinghuysen (R-NJ), Chair of Appropriations Committee of the House has pretty much said that the House intends to write its own budget and not adopt the President's proposals as is. So there will be plenty of opportunity to modulate and moderate what comes out the other end. These guys, including Frelinghuysen himself, has to get re-elected in a year and a half. Incidentally we will be meeting him week after next during NARP's Day on the Hill too. So we will get a better pulse of what is going on. We will also be meeting Menedez, Booker and Nelson on the Senate side, among others.
 
If this budget does pass, and they end up cutting long distance service, when would it take effect? Can I book something for this November? Or will it take until 2018 for anything to actually happen?
The budget isn't going to pass as originally proposed; It never does. To answer your question, though, the next fiscal year starts October 1st, and in theory any programs not funded would end as of that date. However, Congress very rarely anymore passes any sort of budget by the deadline and agencies (including Amtrak) are funded by a continuing resolution (CR) at previous levels. In short, November is safe. But, so is 2018.
I'm sure the folks behind the zeroed out budget from the Executive branch and the folks behind the zeroed out budget from the Legislative branch will eventually reach a compromise where all funding is restored. Wait, what?

Good thing Amtrak has strong support by...

The President's Advisors

A majority in the House

A majority in the Senate

...whoops.
 
the zeroed out budget from the Legislative branch
The House or Senate has released some preliminary budget numbers? Source please.
My source is two decades of hearing that Amtrak needs to be self sufficient, that it doesn't deserve continuing long term subsidies, and that the commuter corridors should be opened up to privatization. Realistically Ryan is probably more of a 15-20% reduction per annum kind of a guy. That's still enough to wipe out most of the LD network between now and the next practical window for seriously changing course. If Ryan waivers or backs off he risks sparking another round of attacks and eventually another primary battle. He's been safe in past but he's in dangerous waters there's no rule or restriction that can prevent him from being ostracized and extricated just like John Boehner before him.
 
The long run concern that I have is the mountain of unfunded capital spending that will be needed to pay for all the repairs and fixes in the northeast and for all the replacement fleet vehicles (1,000 plus wanted) Amtrak will need in the 2020s. Some of that can be put off temporarily, but not forever. And we're talking billions, not just hundreds of millions, just to keep things going.

That seems like a bigger long-term threat than the current budget process.
 
I suppose this should go under the Budget thread, but these two paragraphs are key:

How likely is it Congress will embrace the White House’s vision when it receives its more-detailed budget (which typically happens in mid-May)? Since the railroad association put out its alert it has witnessed a “huge public outpouring,” with thousands of its members calling their elected representatives, says Sean Jeans-Gail, vice president of government affairs and policy. “We can verify Congress is hearing this outcry, and they’re taking notice. We’ve seen a shift among Republicans from guarded, noncommittal statements to guarded statements that emphasize that Congress has the power of the purse. That’s progress.”

Trump-leaning politicians might want to listen to these voices, as many of them are coming from the rural denizens that fed the president’s rise to power. “The majority of passengers on these trains aren’t using them to go from big city to big city,” says Jim Mathews, the railroad association’s president and CEO. “They’re small-town Americans who don’t have a lot of transportation alternatives. The ridership figures on these trains are lower because the towns they serve are smaller. If you live in McGregor, Texas, and you’re trying to get to Fort Worth for business or a medical procedure, the [Texas] Eagle is as important to you as the Northeast Corridor is to a New Yorker—probably more important, since Temple doesn’t have access to a LaGuardia or JFK.”
Some of the off corridor trains are just as important to their riders as the NEC is to the passengers they serve. Hopefully, the message is delivered.
 
I wrote a letter to President Trump asking him to reconsider cutting Amtrak funding. I haven't heard back from him, but I'm sure I'm not alone in requesting to keep Amtrak with a good budget.

I also wrote a letter to our Senator in California asking her to vote against the budget concerning Amtrak.
 
According to Amtrak reports they are only off by 6% from the break even point, surely if push comes to shove 6% could be temporarily made up for in one way or another.... 6% "making America great" surcharge on all tickets with a message about making small sacrifices to bigly support the most tremendous yuge president....
 
I wrote a letter to President Trump asking him to reconsider cutting Amtrak funding. I haven't heard back from him, but I'm sure I'm not alone in requesting to keep Amtrak with a good budget.

I also wrote a letter to our Senator in California asking her to vote against the budget concerning Amtrak.
Good for you, man!
 
i don't think trumps budgets cuts for Amtrak is going to make America great again. i hope he does not get away with this.
 
I wish there was a way to subsidize Amtrak's long-haul trains that didn't involve the general fund. I'd support a few cents increase in gasoline taxes dedicated for that purpose. Unfortunately, there's little political motivation for increasing any taxes right now. Trump, wants to cut taxes, at least for some people. I'd like to see a radical change in what the US taxes, moving generally from taxing productivity to taxing consumption, even though this would hurt me personally. I believe it's the only way we can start manufacturing stuff here in America again.
 
... I'd support a few cents increase in gasoline taxes ... a radical change in what the US taxes, moving generally from taxing productivity to taxing consumption ..
The gasoline tax at the national level has been flat for years and years. With inflation it has been cut, actually. Any increase in the gas tax would be good in simple fairness, to help phase out air pollution, to cut greenhouse gases contributing to global heating, and to reduce our tendency to get into wars in areas where oil is plentiful but peace is rare.

The tax on alcohol (beer, wine, liquor) at the national level has been flat, again for decades, in effect a 'sin tax' cut.

There's no national tax on 'soft drinks' like Coke, Pepsi, Diet Coke, Arizona Iced Tea, etc. that appear to contribute heavily to the national obesity epidemic and the rise in diabetes.

Of course, legalizing marijuana at the national level would allow a federal tax on it to produce millions in revenue, while cutting wasted tax money going to cops, courts, and prisons.

Looks like $1 or $2 Billion a year for new equipment could easily be budgeted to renew and expand the fleet. Likewise $4 or $5 Billion a year might be the realistic amount, the cap, really, on what could be invested in passenger rail infrastructure, given the long lead time on projects -- the studies, the public outreach, the engineering, and the construction. (That's spending for Amtrak, not counting the NEC or CAHSR, and before any subsidies for expanded service.) These modest sums are easily affordable by our great country, easily payable with modest new taxes on consumption.
 
There's no national tax on 'soft drinks' like Coke, Pepsi, Diet Coke, Arizona Iced Tea, etc. that appear to contribute heavily to the national obesity epidemic and the rise in diabetes.
No but there is a soft drink tax in Philly now. There's plenty of people who pushed to stop the tax before it was implemented and still push to have it repealed.

Of course, legalizing marijuana at the national level would allow a federal tax on it to produce millions in revenue, while cutting wasted tax money going to cops, courts, and prisons.

Looks like $1 or $2 Billion a year for new equipment could easily be budgeted to renew and expand the fleet. Likewise $4 or $5 Billion a year might be the realistic amount, the cap, really, on what could be invested in passenger rail infrastructure, given the long lead time on projects -- the studies, the public outreach, the engineering, and the construction. (That's spending for Amtrak, not counting the NEC or CAHSR, and before any subsidies for expanded service.) These modest sums are easily affordable by our great country, easily payable with modest new taxes on consumption.
I think it's a given what I would expect is included in that $4-$5 billion.

I hope for that money there are more new routes and new areas (Vegas, Nashville, Columbus, etc) served.
 
There's no national tax on 'soft drinks' ... that appear to contribute heavily to the national obesity epidemic and the rise in diabetes.
No but there is a soft drink tax in Philly now. There's plenty of people who pushed to stop the tax before it was implemented and still push to have it repealed.

Of course, legalizing marijuana at the national level would allow a federal tax on it to produce millions in revenue ...

... $4 or $5 Billion a year might be the realistic amount, the cap, really, on what could be invested in passenger rail infrastructure, given the long lead time on projects -- the studies, the public outreach, the engineering, and the construction. (That's spending ... before any subsidies for expanded service.) These modest sums are easily affordable by our great country, easily payable with modest new taxes on consumption.
I think it's a given what I would expect is included in that $4-$5 billion.

I hope for that money there are more new routes and new areas (Vegas, Nashville, Columbus, etc) served.
We may be getting off topic. But I'd put the $4 or $5 Billion into upgrading corridors, the way the Stimulus money was invested. So more money into CHI-St Louis and CHI-Detroit, and then CHI-Indy-Cincy/Louisville-Lexington KY, CHI-TOL-CLE, Detroit-TOL-CLE-PGH, CHI-Ft Wayne-Columbus, CHI-Madison-St Paul, CHI-Memphis, Mobile-Biloxi-New Orleans, New Orleans-Baton Rouge, New Orleans-Lafayette-Houston-San Antonio, Orlando-Jacksonville-Tallahassee, D.C.-Richmond, Richmond-Petersburg-rebuilt 'S'-line-Raleigh, L.A.-Santa Barbara-San Louis-Obispo-San Jose, among others. And I'd happily promise Congress, no new LD routes for 10 years (except daily Cardinal and Sunset Ltd, CONO extended to Orlando, and maybe the flavor du jour, ATL-Meridien-Jackson-Shreveport-Dallas-Ft Worth).

Of course, all of these corridor trains overlap, or feed traffic to, existing LD lines. And the expansions would help to spread the overhead of system-wide fixed costs more widely, to less heavily burden each existing train -- LD, NEC, or state-supported.

Perhaps soonish Amtrak can claim that half of its LD trains actually make a positive contribution or at least break even: (AutoTrain, Palmetto, Silver Meteor, Silver Star, Crescent, Lake Shore Ltd, Coast Starlight, CONO?, Cardinal if possible to go daily with three sets not four needed?). THEN it will be in a good position to propose new or revived LD routes.
 
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There's no national tax on 'soft drinks' like Coke, Pepsi, Diet Coke, Arizona Iced Tea, etc. that appear to contribute heavily to the national obesity epidemic and the rise in diabetes.
No but there is a soft drink tax in Philly now. There's plenty of people who pushed to stop the tax before it was implemented and still push to have it repealed.
Which, I would note appears to be failing miserably at bringing in the projected revenue, while businesses outside the City & County are doing bang-up sales in soda (or what anything Philadelphia legally calls "soda").

Meanwhile, NYC is poised to proudly hike the cigarette tax. Apparently they didn't learn anything from the Eric Garner incident.

Having consumption taxes is one thing; using them just to generate excess revenue or control behavior is something else.
 
There's no national tax on 'soft drinks' like Coke, Pepsi, Diet Coke, Arizona Iced Tea, etc. that appear to contribute heavily to the national obesity epidemic and the rise in diabetes.
... there is a soft drink tax in Philly now.
Which ... appears to be failing miserably at bringing in the projected revenue, while businesses outside the City & County are doing bang-up sales in soda (or what anything Philadelphia legally calls "soda").

Meanwhile, NYC is poised to proudly hike the cigarette tax. Apparently they didn't learn anything from the Eric Garner incident.
Cigarette taxes vary widely from state to state, and city to city. New York State ($4.35) a pack) and New York City have very high taxes, which is said to have helped reduce the rate of smoking.

But the tobacco-growing states like Virginia (30¢ a pack), Georgia (37¢), and North Carolina (45¢) have very low rates.

The price differences, of course, calls forth investors who arbitrage the markets. In this business, it's the Mob. The gangsters buy truckloads of cigarettes in the South, and tho it is illegal to do so, send them to the North to sell in competition with highly taxed and therefore high priced legal cigarettes. (Funny how the police were willing to kill Eric Garner for his illegal marketing efforts -- Black Lives Don't Matter to cops? -- but they seem completely unable to stop the Mob from its activities.)

In any case, a high national tax could not so easily be circumvented. Not unless or until someone begins to send low tax cigarettes over or under the magnificent Wall we are all getting ready to pay for instead of investing in better trains. (Keeping my rant On Topic.)

I'd like to see a national tax of at least $4 a pack, and would be happier to see $5 a pack. NY State and NY City then might, or might not, lower their rates in order to undermine the Mob's arbitrage. I'd bet on 'Not'.
 
President Trump thinks like a businessman and not a politician. He will most likely push for cuts to those routes loosing money. Same goes for other federal programs loosing too much money. He said he's going to drain the swamp and that includes spending. Elections have consequences but remember that Congress has to approve the budget and allot can happen before it is finalized.
 
President Trump thinks like a businessman and not a politician. He will most likely push for cuts to those routes loosing money.
That would mean he would push to cut every single route or train Amtrak operates, including Acela and the Northeast Corridor (and again, that's not happening). They all lose money (aside from the 'polite fiction' of above the rail profit).
 
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