Tukwila: How do I know which track the train will stop?

[AC4400]

TUK (Tukwila,WA) has double tracks, but no attendant.

I usually take the SB Cascades to Oregon (507 or 509) or pick up friends (508) from TUK.

However, it's really hard to tell which track will the train stop.

Most of the time, all 507, 508, and 509 stop on the west track, but sometimes they stop on the east side.

Because TUK only has a scheduled stop for 1 minute, if I stand on the wrong platform, I need to run when the train enters the station, in order not to miss it.

My question is, how could I judge which track the train will stop?

 

[CHamilton]

Unfortunately, you don't. You may be able to tell from the configuration of the signals, but don't count on that.

Southbound trains usually stop at the west track, and northbound trains usually stop at the east track -- but when there's trackwork going on, the tracks can be switched with no notice. Luckily, the conductors generally know if someone is getting on at Tukwila and will wait for you to run around to the other track (it's happened to me twice).

Hopefully, this situation will get better when the new Tukwila station that's currently under construction is done, but that will be a while yet.

 

[AC4400]

Unfortunately, you don't. You may be able to tell from the configuration of the signals, but don't count on that.
Southbound trains usually stop at the west track, and northbound trains usually stop at the east track -- but when there's trackwork going on, the tracks can be switched with no notice. Luckily, the conductors generally know if someone is getting on at Tukwila and will wait for you to run around to the other track (it's happened to me twice).

Hopefully, this situation will get better when the new Tukwila station that's currently under construction is done, but that will be a while yet.

Thanks!

Do you know the timeline for the new Tukwila Station? I did see couple of excavators by the west side today.

 

[CHamilton]

The Sound Transit website says "late 2014."

 

[AC4400]

The Sound Transit website says "late 2014."

This is good news, but I still can't see the plan to have Amtrak ticket counter and/or QuikTrak in the new station.

 

[PaulM]

This isn't just a Tukwila issue, but occurs where ever you have an unstaffed station with double track. It's been my experience that if the train is coming in on the wrong side (British style), the engineer will slow down before the station and lay on the horn, giving you time to get across.

 

[zephyr17]

This isn't just a Tukwila issue, but occurs where ever you have an unstaffed station with double track. It's been my experience that if the train is coming in on the wrong side (British style), the engineer will slow down before the station and lay on the horn, giving you time to get across.

One point of railroad minutiae. "Double track" is directional running, each track is usually only signaled one direction, and movement against current of traffic is done only with dispatcher permission at reduced speed. "Double track" is typically not CTC. "Multiple main track" there is no current of traffic and trains can operate either direction on any main track. It typically is CTC.

The Seattle Sub through Tukwila is "2 Main Track" so it is not directional running. If it was "Double Track", it wouldn't happen, or happen very, very seldom. The dispatcher no doubt tries to put each train on the "correct" track for its expected platform, but sometimes he probably can't.

 

[Nathanael]

This isn't just a Tukwila issue, but occurs where ever you have an unstaffed station with double track. It's been my experience that if the train is coming in on the wrong side (British style), the engineer will slow down before the station and lay on the horn, giving you time to get across.

One point of railroad minutiae. "Double track" is directional running, each track is usually only signaled one direction, and movement against current of traffic is done only with dispatcher permission at reduced speed. "Double track" is typically not CTC. "Multiple main track" there is no current of traffic and trains can operate either direction on any main track. It typically is CTC.

This is not a historically correct terminology distinction. "Double track" means exactly that, two running tracks (sidings usually aren't counted). (I guess I should specify that the two tracks have to be controlled by the same dispatching operation, or you have *two single-track* railroads.) Even with bidirectional running tracks, a two-track railroad is considered "double track". A three track railroad is "triple track". A four track railroad is "quadruple track". Et cetera.

You may be using some railroad's specific, idiosyncratic terminology. Which railroad?

In actual practice almost all double-track railroads (LIRR excepted!) run with directional runnning *most of the time*, for efficiency reasons; the ability to use bidirectional running is nice, but operationally, directional running is usually the most efficient way to use a pair of tracks for high volume traffic. Reverse running is only used when arranging for a fast train to pass a slow train, or for trains to go off on sidings or branches on particular sides of the right-of-way.

 

[zephyr17]

Nathaniel, it isn't idiosyncratic by railroad. There is a difference, in DT territory movement must be with current of traffic, and movement against current of traffic must be authorized under GCOR rule 6.25 . In 2MT territory, there is no current of traffic established by rule. The dispatcher may usually conform to a current of traffic for fluidity, but trains running either direction can run at track speed. Going against current of traffic in DT territory trains can typically only run at restricted speed because it isn't signalled for it.

The Seattle Sub is 2MT CTC, and trains can and do run either direction on either track frequently. By contrast CP's C&M sub between Milwaukee and Chicago is pure DT and trains run strictly directionally, which is why when the Builder is out of slot it can get stuck behind a Metra commute making all stops. There is no way for it to pass, and of course Metra isn't going to stick their train in a siding for the Builder.

RRs sometimes upgrade a Double Track ABS line to 2 MT CTC to gain such options. The Seattle Sub through Tukwila was just such a case. When the Tukwila stop was first established, it was directional Double Track through there. Sound Transit at least partly funded the whole line to Tacoma to be upgraded to 2MT CTC as part of the deal for BNSF to host Sounder commuter trains.

The terms "double track" and "multiple main track" appear in GCOR, followed by railroads in the West. I don't know about NORAC.

 

[fairviewroad]

The new Tukwila station won't be complete until "late 2014" but in the mean time, don't plan on parking your car at the

existing one. This notice is on the Amtrak Cascades website:

Tukwila Station Parking:
Amtrak Cascades passengers who park in the Sound Transit parking lot at Tukwila Station must have their vehicles out of the lot by 10:00 pm Friday, December 13. This lot will be closed permanently after this time. Amtrak Cascades passengers can park at the nearby Embassy Suites where overnight parking is available for $9 per night.

Interestingly, the Sounder website says that a new parking lot is opening on Monday, December 16. I suppose the complication for Amtrak passengers is

whether the new lot is available for overnight parking. The Amtrak notice would make it appear that overnight parking is not allowed (hence the reference

to Embassy Suites. This must surely be the only rail station in the Amtrak system where the suggested parking lot is a local hotel). Well, at least there's

a sidewalk between the two locations. :blink:

 

[fairviewroad]

Apparently the suggestion to park your car at the Embassy Suites was short-lived. The Cascades website now says this:

Tukwila Station Parking: The new parking lot on the west side of the Tukwila Station Platform has been paved. Free overnight parking is now available.

 

[CHamilton]

Kirk Fredrickson of WSDOT told the All Aboard Washington meeting yesterday that there will soon be electronic signs at Tukwila to announce on which track trains will be arriving. Initially, the signs will be controlled by conductors sending texts to the signs, but eventually the signs will be controlled directly from the dispatchers' software in Fort Worth.

 

[rickycourtney]

Kirk Fredrickson of WSDOT told the All Aboard Washington meeting yesterday that there will soon be electronic signs at Tukwila to announce on which track trains will be arriving. Initially, the signs will be controlled by conductors sending texts to the signs, but eventually the signs will be controlled directly from the dispatchers' software in Fort Worth.

'bout time!
I still don't understand why the Cascades can't operate like the Sounder trains and have the northbound trains stop at the east platform and the southbound trains stop at the east platform.

Also all of the architectural drawings show a bike cage located under the east platform that is marked as an area for a future Amtrak "program" and a restroom to be built by the city of Tukwila. Anyone know if this is for a small staffed station or just an area for QuikTrak machines?

 

[CHamilton]

The electronic track sign is still not up at Tukwila. Meanwhile, check the trash can. Sheesh. Great placement, guys.


Via Facebook's Pacific Northwest Railfans group.

 

[neroden]

I think they failed to put up a noticeboard. Sloppy design error; you never know when you'll need to put up a notice. The trash can is an inspired improvisation...

 

[AC4400]

Thanks!

Yes I saw this weird sign :giggle:

I usually take 507 (West platform), 509 (East platform) and 508 (West platform).

Notice that the Sounder trains also stop on either side.

The electronic track sign is still not up at Tukwila. Meanwhile, check the trash can. Sheesh. Great placement, guys.

10411842_1040323935979739_1578631509694883370_n.jpg
Via Facebook's Pacific Northwest Railfans group.

 

[Amtrak Cajun]

You know, thats the trashiest schedule I've ever seen! *rimshot*

 

[CHamilton]

You know, thats the trashiest schedule I've ever seen! *rimshot*

I "can"'t believe you said that.

 

[Amtrak Cajun]

You know Charlie, looking at that photo, I guess you can say those schedules are well "lined"

Ok, I will behave now.

In all seriousness, I hope that schedule at least helps passengers be less confused.

 

[neroden]

Nathaniel, it isn't idiosyncratic by railroad. ...

The terms "double track" and "multiple main track" appear in GCOR, followed by railroads in the West. I don't know about NORAC.

Aha, the terminology is idiosyncratic to GCOR. That explains it. I've looked at a lot of other rulebooks, both around the world and historically within the US, and they generally don't make the same distinction.