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Aren't the ex-ATSF Hi-Levels all gone, replaced by Superliner Coaches or Coach/Cafes?
You are correct sir! During the "Big Game Week in Oct. (UT/OU in Dallas) they use the Wrapped "Big Game" P-42 and add an SSL and extra Coach as has been said in various threads about the HF! The Train is run all the way to/from the Cotton Bowl in Dallas on the new Green Line Tracks that run to the Fairgrounds from Union Station!(normally the HF ends @ FTW)
 
The Tejanita and I were on it a while back and it has a SSL in the consist, which was being used by the crew for an office.
 
Had a meeting with a colleague this morning in Ardmore (saved me from going all the way to Dallas or him to OKC) and happened to see the Flyer make its stop in Ardmore. Had 4 coaches on today-that something new? Usually only noticed added equipment (extra coach and SSL) for the "Game Train"
The fourth Coach was tossed on about a month or so ago, likely to handle late Summer traffic. Sometimes it will come back on for Christmas Break and again for Winter Break in March.
 
LOL, thank you frequent flyer. My question also. As to Ryan's "Civics Crap", and Jim Hudson's whining about the 'poor downtrodden' this is the only country in the world set up this way and it has worked well for over 200 years,
Well, there was that Civil War thing, so no, it hasn't worked well for that long. Things nearly fell apart in the 1930s, too; my Dad remembers the fascists marching in the streets, and the country was a tinderkeg. (Thank you to FDR for changing the system enough to stabilize it; this required bullying the Supreme Court.)

making the US the most affluent and powerful country in the world.
Most powerful is debatable. There are no hard numbers which can define "most powerful". I say China is the most powerful country in the world, and there's no real way to prove me wrong.
We're *certainly* not the most affluent.

By mean GDP per capita we make #6:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28PPP%29_per_capita

By the Human Development Index, we make #3:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index

By median household income, we are #10, though some argue we're as high as #7:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_household_income#OECD_Statistics

By industrial production, we're #2 (trailing China by a huge amount), and by agricultural production we're #3; most of this is just due to sheer size, though. We lead the world in service sector workers!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_sector_composition

What's more damning, however, is that in life expectancy at birth, we're #35.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy

The "Where to be born" index makes us #17:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Where-to-be-born_Index

The US is not #1 at anything except

(1) percentage of population in prison (most in world!)

(2) number of people in prison (most in world!)

(3) amount of money spent on military (more than every other country put together, and we still lose every war we get involved in!)

If it seems broke at times, perhaps that was the intent of the design. A dysfunctional government is the best government. Good luck changing it.
Oh, it'll change. No society tolerates a severely dysfunctional government for more than a few decades. The real question is what it's going to change to: it's quite possible for it to be replaced with something even more dysfunctional, which is something worth avoiding. (People won't tolerate that either, but then you get into this cycle of chaos, like Mexico did for 100 years.) We should rather attempt to improve it.

After World War II, US experts on governance advised various countries (first Japan and Germany, and later the countries decolonized by European powers in the 1950s and 1960s) on how to design their new Constitutions. One of the things they uniformly said was "DON'T COPY US!" The Bill of Rights was held up as a good example, but structurally, countries were uniformly advised to adopt Westminster-style parliamentary systems with proportional representation. There's a *reason for this*.

The US is the longest surviving "Presidential system" democracy; they usually collapse into civil war (which we did once so far). Westminster/parliamentary systems have a substantially better stability record.

The Senate was a mess from the beginning. Senators were supposed to represent the state governments, but because they were appointed by *bicameral* state legislatures (another bad idea), whenever the state legislature was split between the parties, the Senate seats were left vacant. Everyone was fed up with that, so it was replaced with direct election of Senators in the 1910s. The problem with that is that now they don't represent the state governments any more -- the Senate is just like the House except severely malapportioned, with 40 Senators representing 10% of the population (and quite likely elected by a mere 6%).

I can't really blame the Founding Fathers because *they didn't know any better* when they wrote the Constitution. We do, however, know better now. US experts designed dozens of better constitutions in the 1940s, 1950s, and 1960s, and dozens of countries are using those constitutions.
 
Excellent Post Neroden!

You should be teaching Civics 101 to all College Freshmen and also the "Love it or Leave it!" Morons who don't have a clue about how our Government system is supposed to function but due to corruption doesn't!!
 
Excellent Post Neroden!

You should be teaching Civics 101 to all College Freshmen and also the "Love it or Leave it!" Morons who don't have a clue about how our Government system is supposed to function but due to corruption doesn't!!

Reported for treason

:giggle:
 
Yes the Santa Fe cars have been gone for quite some time now. Usual consist is a coach, coach cafe, and coach baggage, bracketed by two locomotives. Just curious if this weeks train with an additional coach was becoming the norm or just an anomaly.
 
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Yes the Santa Fe cars have been gone for quite some time now. Usual consist is a coach, coach cafe, and coach baggage, bracketed by two locomotives. Just curious if this weeks train with an additional coach was becoming the norm or just an anomaly.
It's not the norm as the fourth Coach which is often kept in FTW as a protect Coach is only put on during high traffic seasons, such as late Summer. Once school starts next week it will likely be gone.

Prior to going all Superliner, the Flyer carried Hi-Level Coach, Superliner Coach/Cafe, Hi-Level Coach. Since no Hi-Levels could serve the purpose of Cafe, the Superliner had to be used.
 
Yes the Santa Fe cars have been gone for quite some time now. Usual consist is a coach, coach cafe, and coach baggage, bracketed by two locomotives. Just curious if this weeks train with an additional coach was becoming the norm or just an anomaly.
It's not the norm as the fourth Coach which is often kept in FTW as a protect Coach is only put on during high traffic seasons, such as late Summer. Once school starts next week it will likely be gone.

Prior to going all Superliner, the Flyer carried Hi-Level Coach, Superliner Coach/Cafe, Hi-Level Coach. Since no Hi-Levels could serve the purpose of Cafe, the Superliner had to be used.
So what became of the ex Santa Fe Hi-Levels?
 
Yes the Santa Fe cars have been gone for quite some time now. Usual consist is a coach, coach cafe, and coach baggage, bracketed by two locomotives. Just curious if this weeks train with an additional coach was becoming the norm or just an anomaly.
It's not the norm as the fourth Coach which is often kept in FTW as a protect Coach is only put on during high traffic seasons, such as late Summer. Once school starts next week it will likely be gone.

Prior to going all Superliner, the Flyer carried Hi-Level Coach, Superliner Coach/Cafe, Hi-Level Coach. Since no Hi-Levels could serve the purpose of Cafe, the Superliner had to be used.
So what became of the ex Santa Fe Hi-Levels?
Five of the 6 original Hi-Level Lounges serve as the Pacific Parlour Cars and I understand number 6 is resting quietly somehwere in Illinois after Amtrak disposed of it.
 
Five of the 6 original Hi-Level Lounges serve as the Pacific Parlour Cars and I understand number 6 is resting quietly somehwere in Illinois after Amtrak disposed of it.
I know there are a bunch of them in some yard in Illinois, but they had to have spent a bunch of money fixing up the three or four they used for the HF. Did they just send these back to that yard also are does Amtrak still have them stashed away somewhere? How many Hi-Levels does Amtrak still have besides the 5 Pacific Parlor Cars?
 
The list on Train Web shows only 39940 and 39944 as being used on the Heartland Flyer. Both were later sold. Both cars were from the 1956 order. Corridor Capital has 50 of them. "With one critical exception: Corridor Capital owns or controls 50 of the finest railroad passenger cars ever built—a mix of double-deck stainless-steel coaches, dining cars and lounge cars built by the legendary Budd Co. of Philadelphia for the Santa Fe Railway’s finest passenger trains during the 1950s and 1960s." I have no idea of the HF cars are among these.

http://ccrail.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/HiLevel_Fleet_Equipment_Illustration_Page.pdf
 
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Corridor Capital's collection is almost all Santa Fe Hi-Levels; it's also almost all *of* the Santa Fe Hi-Levels. There were 73 originally built. Four (4) were scrapped after wrecks, two (2) more were wrecked and considered good only for parts (at least one of those has frame damage). Amtrak has 5 of the 6 lounges. Two (2) were prototypes and don't actually match the rest of the fleet. Corridor Capital claims to have bought at least 51 matching cars and to be able to provide up to 60, which means they've scooped up all, or nearly all, of the rest. I'm actually curious if anyone else has any of the other Hi-Levels, or if Corridor Capital really bought 'em all.

http://www.trainweb.org/vangab/hilev.htm

Honestly, it could be a decent fleet if everything but the shells is replaced -- as Corridor Capital proposes. But they haven't actually had enough money to "remanufacture" them all. And they probably never will. It doesn't cost quite as much as buying brand new cars, but it costs nearly as much (basically, subtract the cost of the shells). Though it is quicker. Anyone hiring them would have to pay to do that remanufacturing.

Interestingly, their proposed interiors would be designed and built by RailPlan. RailPlan seems popular for interiors.
 
After World War II, US experts on governance advised various countries (first Japan and Germany, and later the countries decolonized by European powers in the 1950s and 1960s) on how to design their new Constitutions. One of the things they uniformly said was "DON'T COPY US!" The Bill of Rights was held up as a good example, but structurally, countries were uniformly advised to adopt Westminster-style parliamentary systems with proportional representation. There's a *reason for this*.
However, many decolonised countries failed to develop into shining examples of functioning democracy. Many slid down the slippery path of dictatorship and a good many have fought not one civil war but several bewteen then and now. There are many reasons for this, but I think not having the checks and balances to prevent willy-nilly aggrandizement of power was one of them.

I cannot think of many countries whose consitutions were blueprinted off the US rather than off European parliamentary constitutions. But one country that did take the US Constitution as a blueprint (Switzerland) has also fared extremely well with it. In terms of pro-capita wealth and opportunities, better than the original.

The US is the longest surviving "Presidential system" democracy; they usually collapse into civil war (which we did once so far). Westminster/parliamentary systems have a substantially better stability record.
It's also one of the first, if not the first no? I cannot think of any earlier example that was broadly compatible.
 
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I cannot think of many countries whose consitutions were blueprinted off the US rather than off European parliamentary constitutions. But one country that did take the US Constitution as a blueprint (Switzerland) has also fared extremely well with it. In terms of pro-capita wealth and opportunities, better than the original.
Well, the Swiss have a parliamentary system!
They also have some very interesting unique features, including a very powerful system of initiative and referendum. Which seems to work quite well. We don't have that at the federal level.

They do have a malapportioned upper house with absolute veto power; this is the most likely weak point in the system, but it hasn't broken it yet, perhaps because no major issue has come up on which the small cantons were vetoing the majority population.

The US is the longest surviving "Presidential system" democracy; they usually collapse into civil war (which we did once so far). Westminster/parliamentary systems have a substantially better stability record.
It's also one of the first, if not the first no? I cannot think of any earlier example that was broadly compatible.
Arguably. The fact that those who copied us (including the states with governmental systems installed by the US in the 19th century) have routinely failed in the same way is actually quite significant, however. Presidential democracies routinely fail in the same way. First, deadlock in the legislature results in the executive collecting power by default. This ends up vesting in the bureaucracy, until eventually it's not really operating as a democracy any more. Then, either the executive seizes power or someone in the military overthrows him with popular support. Does this sound familiar? It should.

This is averted in parliamentary systems because the legislature has direct control over the executive.

(The alternate failure mode, based on having a malapportioned upper house with absolute veto power, is that the minority who control the upper house hold control for too long, they abuse it, eventually the people get sick of it, but it requires war to straighten it out. Most more recent systems have therefore included a tiebreaker for upper-house obstruction, such as Australia's quirky "double dissolution" or the UK's Parliament Act.)

France is one of the few countries other than the US with a Presidential system and it only has a semi-Presidential system. The effectiveness of this is questionable; politics get really weird in France when the President and Prime Minister are from opposing parties.
 
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Since my education, career and interest have all revolved around government and politics ( who knew?) I find this thread very interesting!

The comment about the French system brings to mind the various countries that have coalition governments ( Israel would be Classic example!) and reminds me that our founding fathers had lots of flaws in their original system of government resulting in such things as the President and Vice President being from different parties( Adams and Jefferson) and politics deciding Presidential election!{the House picked Jefferson over Adams)!!

I like the Parliamentary system myself ( "throw the bums out!") but am dubious about government by initiative and referendum (see California!)

Our current mess is due to people not voting, the influence of corporate money, Activist Republican judges (see Bush v Gore etc) and the Gerrymandering that the career politicians do to ensure that they stay in power!

" Power to the People!" as John Lennon said is really what we need here! Register to Vote, get involved and Vote!!!

Of course YMMV but that's what makes this country so special! It's up to all of us if we want to change it, and we do have that Right!!!
 
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