What happened to 20 at Meridian today?

[Crescent ATN & TCL]

As I was going to a night class I noticed what appeared to be a freight train running through a crossing about 1000ft from me in Tuscaloosa. It was very short which seemed very odd, so I turned on the scanner and heard "Amtrak 20 clear 189". Definitely not what I was expecting since it was 3 hours late and appeared to be led by a NS Unit.

Anybody know what happened?

I'm not sure if it was being led by an NS unit or a B32-8WH. The lights didn't seem to fit a P-42 and it was too dark to see much else at that distance.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

I'm not sure if it was being led by an NS unit or a B32-8WH. The lights didn't seem to fit a P-42 and it was too dark to see much else at that distance.

It was dark at 1:37PM?!

 

[Crescent ATN & TCL]

I'm not sure if it was being led by an NS unit or a B32-8WH. The lights didn't seem to fit a P-42 and it was too dark to see much else at that distance.

It was dark at 1:37PM?!

No I saw it at about 5:30 or so between Tuscaloosa and Birmingham, Daylight Savings Time messes us up in this area it gets dark at 4:30 now and its pitch black by 5.

 

[Steve4031]

It may have been dark by the time 20 got to Tuscaloosa, which is where the OP saw it. IIRC, at almost 3 hours late it would be going through there between 4 and 5 p.m.

 

[battalion51]

Well if they lost three hours, that probably means that the engine died, as indicated by the NS engine you saw leading. When ponies die, it usually isn't a quick process to get extra power. Amtrak would have to coordinate with the NS Power Desk in order to get an extra engine for the rest of the run. NS is supposed to give Amtrak priority on the road, but there's no rules when it comes to power. When the power desk has power available, they'll allocate it to Amtrak in their sweet little time.

 

[sechs]

When the power desk has power available, they'll allocate it to Amtrak in their sweet little time.

Unless Amtrak is sitting on the main... then it'll be there ASAP.

 

[battalion51]

IIRC in Meridian there is an Amtrak lead for the station, so they'd be off the main.

 

[Cascadia]

No I saw it at about 5:30 or so between Tuscaloosa and Birmingham, Daylight Savings Time messes us up in this area it gets dark at 4:30 now and its pitch black by 5.

I'm not sure what Daylight Saving Time has to do with it? Didn't everyone go off DST a few weeks ago?

I think it's dark early all over - not just your area.

 

[battalion51]

I'm on the extreme west end of the Eastern Time zone, and it's pretty much black here by about 6:00 Eastern. Since Tuscaloosa isn't THAT far west of here, it makes sense.

 

[had8ley]

Just a short question~ I thought #19 and #20 were running with two units? We're down to one like the City maybe?

 

[haolerider]

Just a short question~ I thought #19 and #20 were running with two units? We're down to one like the City maybe?

No, it has been running with two units consistently.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Just a short question~ I thought #19 and #20 were running with two units? We're down to one like the City maybe?

No, it has been running with two units consistently.

So why'd they need the NS pickup? The second unit (unless something was wrong with it too) should be enough...

 

[had8ley]

Just a short question~ I thought #19 and #20 were running with two units? We're down to one like the City maybe?

No, it has been running with two units consistently.

So why'd they need the NS pickup? The second unit (unless something was wrong with it too) should be enough...

Just a guess~ they had a crossing accident that bad ordered the lead unit and the second unit was turned wrong with no where to wye it close to the accident. it's amazing the amount of log trucks that cross the NS tracks between Picayune and B'Ham.

 

[profwebs]

Whatever the problem was, it seems to have lasted more than a day? A NS loco pulling #20 which has 3 p42's:

 

[Crescent Mark]

Just a short question~ I thought #19 and #20 were running with two units? We're down to one like the City maybe?

No, it has been running with two units consistently.

So why'd they need the NS pickup? The second unit (unless something was wrong with it too) should be enough...

Just a guess~ they had a crossing accident that bad ordered the lead unit and the second unit was turned wrong with no where to wye it close to the accident. it's amazing the amount of log trucks that cross the NS tracks between Picayune and B'Ham.

Holy smokes, 3 P42's. Where did that last one come from? I don't think they keep any extras anywhere from NO to where this video was shot, unless I'm wrong. I wonder if it started out in NO like that.

And the second unit on the Crescent runs elephant style (I think that's what you call it)...they don't run back to back anymore. In that video, it looks like the first two are facing frontward and the third one is facing backwards. Very interesting. I wonder why it had another P42 on it, why the 3rd one was turned around, and exactly what happened.

 

[AlanB]

I'm not sure why they had three P42's on in the first place, unless one was being moved for some reason.

However and I admit it's hard to tell for sure, but frankly it sounds to me like the first two units (141 & 46) aren't running. I only hear engine noise from the trailing P42, #136, which is no doubt supplying HEP. Even if Amtrak had a place to turn the locos after 141 failed, I'm not sure that one P42 has enough power to pull the normal consist, supply HEP, and move the weight of three engines over the road. Hence the reason for getting help from NS.

 

[MattW]

Interesting, I just saw #136 pulling 19 into Atlanta yesterday (december 4)!

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

I'm not sure why they had three P42's on in the first place, unless one was being moved for some reason.
However and I admit it's hard to tell for sure, but frankly it sounds to me like the first two units (141 & 46) aren't running. I only hear engine noise from the trailing P42, #136, which is no doubt supplying HEP. Even if Amtrak had a place to turn the locos after 141 failed, I'm not sure that one P42 has enough power to pull the normal consist, supply HEP, and move the weight of three engines over the road. Hence the reason for getting help from NS.

So both lead units failed... that would make more sense. And no, I wouldn't think that a third P42 could pull the dead weight and supply HEP.

The question in my mind is: why did both units fail? And how lucky were they to have a third on the consist...

 

[AlanB]

I'm not sure why they had three P42's on in the first place, unless one was being moved for some reason.
However and I admit it's hard to tell for sure, but frankly it sounds to me like the first two units (141 & 46) aren't running. I only hear engine noise from the trailing P42, #136, which is no doubt supplying HEP. Even if Amtrak had a place to turn the locos after 141 failed, I'm not sure that one P42 has enough power to pull the normal consist, supply HEP, and move the weight of three engines over the road. Hence the reason for getting help from NS.

So both lead units failed... that would make more sense. And no, I wouldn't think that a third P42 could pull the dead weight and supply HEP.

The question in my mind is: why did both units fail? And how lucky were they to have a third on the consist...

Well again, I'm not positive that both the lead units failed. I just doesn't sound like they are running as they pass the cameraman. And it is possible that the second unit was dead upon departure. It may have been getting hauled dead for some reason. Again, I don't know, maybe it was running when it left NOL. But it is odd to put three on the train to begin with, so I suspect that it may well have left dead.

At one time NOL used to have a loco shop, technically it's still there, but I'm pretty sure that it was closed a few years ago. So any b/o'd unit would have to be shipped back out.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Well again, I'm not positive that both the lead units failed. I just doesn't sound like they are running as they pass the cameraman. And it is possible that the second unit was dead upon departure. It may have been getting hauled dead for some reason. Again, I don't know, maybe it was running when it left NOL. But it is odd to put three on the train to begin with, so I suspect that it may well have left dead.
At one time NOL used to have a loco shop, technically it's still there, but I'm pretty sure that it was closed a few years ago. So any b/o'd unit would have to be shipped back out.

I watched and listened over and over-- the first unit is def. not running, I am not sure about the second one or the third. Could the second one be the one supplying the HEP and the third was being towed for some reason? If that was the case it makes a little more sense that the first two units were alive but the first failed... meaning the second couldn't pull the dead weight and file out the HEP.

Then again I could just be trying to justify why they have a third P42 back to back. If they needed it repaired, it makes no sense to tow it to NOL...

 

[AlanB]

Then again I could just be trying to justify why they have a third P42 back to back. If they needed it repaired, it makes no sense to tow it to NOL...

Train #20 runs to NYP, so if they were indeed initially towing a dead engine, it would be on it's way to DC, not NOL.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Then again I could just be trying to justify why they have a third P42 back to back. If they needed it repaired, it makes no sense to tow it to NOL...

Train #20 runs to NYP, so if they were indeed initially towing a dead engine, it would be on it's way to DC, not NOL.

Exactly. So if the third unit isn't dead, what is it doing?

I love a good rail mystery...

 

[had8ley]

I'm not sure why they had three P42's on in the first place, unless one was being moved for some reason.
However and I admit it's hard to tell for sure, but frankly it sounds to me like the first two units (141 & 46) aren't running. I only hear engine noise from the trailing P42, #136, which is no doubt supplying HEP. Even if Amtrak had a place to turn the locos after 141 failed, I'm not sure that one P42 has enough power to pull the normal consist, supply HEP, and move the weight of three engines over the road. Hence the reason for getting help from NS.

So both lead units failed... that would make more sense. And no, I wouldn't think that a third P42 could pull the dead weight and supply HEP.

The question in my mind is: why did both units fail? And how lucky were they to have a third on the consist...

Well again, I'm not positive that both the lead units failed. I just doesn't sound like they are running as they pass the cameraman. And it is possible that the second unit was dead upon departure. It may have been getting hauled dead for some reason. Again, I don't know, maybe it was running when it left NOL. But it is odd to put three on the train to begin with, so I suspect that it may well have left dead.

At one time NOL used to have a loco shop, technically it's still there, but I'm pretty sure that it was closed a few years ago. So any b/o'd unit would have to be shipped back out.

The shop is still there but nothing major than changing brakes, sanding and fueling takes place the last time I went through there.

 

[battalion51]

It's possible the third unit was there because it was being sent on a road test. Many times after an engine receives a new part that's significant, it's sent out in tandem with regular power for a road test. This way if the unit fails the normal power is still there to get the train over the road. So since the train had three units, one may have been on a road test, and in an odd twist of fate another one of the "good units died. The Crescent needs two units to get over the road due to grades. So even if one unit does die, you need another to get over the road.

 

[Crescent ATN & TCL]

Then again I could just be trying to justify why they have a third P42 back to back. If they needed it repaired, it makes no sense to tow it to NOL...

Train #20 runs to NYP, so if they were indeed initially towing a dead engine, it would be on it's way to DC, not NOL.

Exactly. So if the third unit isn't dead, what is it doing?

I love a good rail mystery...

Does anybody know if the 3rd unit could have been from 19? I

talked to the attendant at TCL and he said at Meridian both units failed when they stated to leave the station, one was fixed and pulled until it got about halfway to TCL in York AL, then died again.

At this point a NS unit was dumped from a train at TCL to aid 20.

19 also lost a good bit of time between TCL and MEI, so that leads me to believe 19 gave up a unit at York to tow 20 to TCL then to provide HEP while the NS unit led.

According to the local yard crews in TCL there is a hill just North of TCL that has a 2% grade with a short section of 2.5% grade and Amtrak would have to cut HEP to have enough power for one loco to drag the train over the hill in its normal consist minus one p42 , but since there were two dead units NS required them to add one of their units to climb the grade to protect against stalling out.