What should the SWC do?

[cirdan]

Some freight maybe? I'm not even sure whether all freight cars are allowed to be run at such speeds.

And what would happen if BNSF needed to run further trains on the Transcon? Could they squeeze the SWC out? With no alternative route, that could be the end of things, or alternatively it could be the beginning of a slow death agony, like the Sunset Limited. And if we're honest, it's fairly obvious UPRR wants to kill that train, and unless something big happens, it will one day have its way. Okay, I know BNSF has a more positive attitude to Amtrak. But management can change. Nothing is set in stone. So in my opinion its a dangerous gamble.

Sorry to quote my own posts, but what i'm essentially saying is that we hear so much whining that all would be better for Amtrak if they actually owned the tracks and could do with tham as they pleased. And hear they have an opportunity to actual own a siginificant chunk and they are saying, go and trash this, we prefer to go on a busy route with lots of freight and potential delays.

It sort of makes the "own the tracks" argument fall flat.

 

[MrFSS]

... what i'm essentially saying is that we hear so much whining that all would be better for Amtrak if they actually owned the tracks and could do with tham as they pleased. And here they have an opportunity to actual own a siginificant chunk and they are saying, go and trash this, we prefer to go on a busy route with lots of freight and potential delays.

It sort of makes the "own the tracks" argument fall flat.

If they ran 30-40 trains a day on that line I'm sure they would love to own it.

 

[jis]

Doesn't take that many. 3 - 5 trains each way per day is enough in some cases. But owning track for running just one train each way a day seems a bit extravagant IMHO. Remember that the entire cost would get allocated to the SWC thus putting a huge target on its back when the time comes to decide what gets cut next.

 

[MrFSS]

Doesn't take that many. 3 - 5 trains each way per day is enough in some cases. But owning track for running just one train each way a day seems a bit extravagant IMHO. Remember that the entire cost would get allocated to the SWC thus putting a huge target on its back when the time comes to decide what gets cut next.

As late as 1968 ATSF was running 6 (3 each way) and this was three years before Amtrak started

.

 

[VentureForth]

The problem with the reroute is the sheer amount of traffic. Now, I realize that with the entire route double tracked, that isn't as big as an issue as it was before they completed the pass in the Southern Manzanos. But there WILL be track maintenance and the P speeds are higher than the F speeds. I can't imagine BNSF wanting Amtrak leap frogging their freights, making the average speeds closer to the 45-50 MPH vs 65-70 MPH average speeds. Then there is the dreaded Wye to get into ABQ. All these introduce delays into the ABQ area. Amtrak gets priority on BNSF, but NOT over the NM Railrunner. The schedule is tight weaving in between the commuter trains. An Amtrak delay can snowball quickly.

Freight speeds on the Transcon is 70 MPH not 40 or 55. It would actually be easier for BNSF dispatchers because Amtrak will hold a slot instead of leaving then coming back at a different point.

Freight speed limit may be 70mph, but the comment was regarding average speeds, not maximum speeds.

Thank you. That's correct. The speed limit for Passenger should be around 90 MPH in that area, 79 if not. There will be hopscotching and leap frogging and even though that happens today, there is almost 16 hours of run time where that is NOT happening.

Albuquerque has the Rail Runner- I don't see a real reason for Amtrak to keep stopping there. The Transcon seems to go through more places with people than the existing route. People always say "what about the boy scouts?", but they are just a mormon church group these days. If they want to take a train to summer camp, the Rail Runner can take them.

Rail runner goes nowhere near Raton. However, I found your remark about the Mormon church group very funny. :giggle:

As a non-Mormom Scout Leader and a father to a Boy Scout, I hope to take the SWC to Philmont (Raton) some day. Yes, the Mormon's have a huge stake in the club, but please remember that each unit is reflective of their charter organization - whether it is the Mormon Church, Baptist Church, or the local Rotary Club. In fact, the Mormon contingency is so large that they tend to segregate themselves from the rest of Boy Scouts, typically having their own Summer Camps, etc. And beware - The Mormon Church is an advertiser on at least the mobile version of this website! LOL!

 

[jis]

I doubt that there will be six trains on that route anytime soon unless both CO and NM step upto the plate and fund such, and also take over maintenance of the route.

Raton was the primary passenger route for ATSF when it was in that business.

 

[The Davy Crockett]

Stay on Raton - for the scenery.

 

[FunNut]

My local stop is Lamy, so of course I want the SWC to keep its current routing. I travel to southern California 3-4 times a year, it's a 2-hour drive to ABQ that I would prefer not to have to make to get on my train. What I find insane is no service from ABQ to DEN, there must be many people who would use that routing. And no service ABQ to ELP. Both those routes would connect with other long-distance trains. Then I could visit family and friends in AUS, SAT, SLC, etc. without having to drive or running the dread TSA gauntlet. This country is hopelessly behind in thinking about infrastructure that's important to national security.

 

[Notelvis]

I rode the Southwest Chief with my family Albuquerque - Chicago barely more than a week ago and while my preference would be for the train to remain on it's present route over Raton Pass, I cannot imagine any scenario where that is likely.

There are slow orders in many places once the train diverges from the shared 'Roadrunner' route. We crawled into Lamy. We crawled into Las Vegas. We crawled over Raton Pass. There is just too much work needed to get this line back into shape and I doubt that any agency will be willing to spend the neccessary money for a single train.

I envision by 2016 a reroute onto the southern transcon but, as an earlier writer suggests, with a Tampa-like up-and-back to maintain service to Albuquerque.

For what it's worth though, BNSF's decision to shutter Raton Pass has provided a stay of execution for the remaining semaphores in northern New Mexico. My advice to anyone wishing to ride over Raton Pass and see the semaphores would be to start planning a trip. Both, in my opinion, are on borrowed time.

 

[AlanB]

Not only does RailRunner not serve Raton, as pointed out by others, but it also couldn't handle the baggage from the Boy Scouts.

And those Boy Scouts are a huge source of revenue for Amtrak during the summer months.

 

[printman2000]

As far as scouts, after Raton, they take an hour bus ride to the camp. They could take Railrunner to Santa Fe then it would be a two hour bus ride. Or just take a three hour ride from Albuquerque.

Each scout does not actually take more than they can carry so they could get their packs on Railrunner.

 

[cirdan]

Not only does RailRunner not serve Raton, as pointed out by others, but it also couldn't handle the baggage from the Boy Scouts.

Could Railrunner take over some surplus Amtrak baggage cars and include those in their consists on the days that are large numbers of Boy Scouts are likely to be travelling.

Obviously some modifictaions would be needed to make them compatible, but it can't cost that much.

 

[jis]

Surplus Amtrak baggage cars? Surely you jest?

 

[VentureForth]

As far as scouts, after Raton, they take an hour bus ride to the camp. They could take Railrunner to Santa Fe then it would be a two hour bus ride. Or just take a three hour ride from Albuquerque.

Each scout does not actually take more than they can carry so they could get their packs on Railrunner.

Each pack a Scout carries is a pretty large imposition on the available real estate inside a Bombardier Bi-Level Coach. Not worried about what the Scouts can carry, rather the enormous amount of space that would be taken up by what they DO carry.

Back to the ABQ issue. Please understand that in Belen there is NO transfer to the Railrunner. The NM Railrunner Express terminates on a stub on the far NE corner of the Belen yard, opposite of the Harvey House. This isn't a big deal, but it enforces the fact that the SWC would HAVE to go into ABQ, as there is no simple way to "change trains" in Belen from the SWC to the NM Railrunner.

I'll add another edit. Upon further review, it looks like there might be just enough room to build an island platform between the mainline and the Railrunner line. I really don't think it's even an option, though. The SWC needs ABQ.

 

[AlanB]

As far as scouts, after Raton, they take an hour bus ride to the camp. They could take Railrunner to Santa Fe then it would be a two hour bus ride. Or just take a three hour ride from Albuquerque.

Each scout does not actually take more than they can carry so they could get their packs on Railrunner.

Each pack a Scout carries is a pretty large imposition on the available real estate inside a Bombardier Bi-Level Coach. Not worried about what the Scouts can carry, rather the enormous amount of space that would be taken up by what they DO carry.

The scouts actually go right up to the baggage car to help load/unload their gear at the stations where they are getting on/off the Chief. This is without a doubt due to the large amount of baggage that they have.

Back to the ABQ issue. Please understand that in Belen there is NO transfer to the Railrunner. The NM Railrunner Express terminates on a stub on the far NE corner of the Belen yard, opposite of the Harvey House. This isn't a big deal, but it enforces the fact that the SWC would HAVE to go into ABQ, as there is no simple way to "change trains" in Belen from the SWC to the NM Railrunner.

Agreed, they would have to both move the existing Belen station for RailRunner and then build another station for Amtrak in order to facilitate a transfer at Belen between Amtrak & RailRunner. There are no plans for this that I'm aware of. The current plan is that Amtrak would take the connecting track at Belen to the RailRunner line and run up to ABQ like normal. There are no plans to drop ABQ as an actual stop that sees an actual Amtrak train each day. And there are no plans for the Isleta cutoff to go away. BNSF uses that to move freight to ABQ from the west.

 

[printman2000]

As far as scouts, after Raton, they take an hour bus ride to the camp. They could take Railrunner to Santa Fe then it would be a two hour bus ride. Or just take a three hour ride from Albuquerque.

Each scout does not actually take more than they can carry so they could get their packs on Railrunner.

Each pack a Scout carries is a pretty large imposition on the available real estate inside a Bombardier Bi-Level Coach. Not worried about what the Scouts can carry, rather the enormous amount of space that would be taken up by what they DO carry.

The scouts actually go right up to the baggage car to help load/unload their gear at the stations where they are getting on/off the Chief. This is without a doubt due to the large amount of baggage that they have.

Recently in LA, I sat around watching the scouts preparing to leave. Each scout only takes what they can carry. Each one has a large backpack. They do check their large backpacks and most have a small day pack they take on the train.

My point, I believe Railrunner can handle it. Especially if they knew they were coming and could add an extra car.

But even if they could not, a bus ride from Albuquerque to Philmont would be three hours. Two more than the bus ride from Raton.

 

[jis]

The other relevant question to ponder is, at the rate things are going in NM, how long will Rail Runner survive?

 

[johnny.menhennet]

The other relevant question to ponder is, at the rate things are going in NM, how long will Rail Runner survive?

As much as they are ridiculed by the state, I think things will remain steady for quite a while. There is no way that after all the work they put in getting it up to Santa Fe, they would abandon it. AFAIK, new services are still being added.

 

[VentureForth]

There's no way they'll stop it. It's primarily utilized by the politicians that live in ABQ and work in Santa Fe.

The extension to Belen and the all the stops between ABQ and SFE are incidental.

 

[Paulus]

Surplus Amtrak baggage cars? Surely you jest?

Is there any real reason it would need to use an Amtrak baggage car instead of simply leasing a normal boxcar for the requisite period of time?

Actually, how can there be a lack of sufficient baggage cars with all those Amtrak Express cars stored at LAUS

 

[pebbleworm]

I've thought the same thing about all of those express cars- I think the hitch is that there is no access to them from the ends while the train is moving. An organization crafty enough to make the cabbage cars should be able to find something to do with the express cars....

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

I cannot really vote in this because your options are for different circumstances.

 

[Paulus]

I've thought the same thing about all of those express cars- I think the hitch is that there is no access to them from the ends while the train is moving. An organization crafty enough to make the cabbage cars should be able to find something to do with the express cars....

Why would you need to access checked baggage while the train is in motion? Not sure how you'd do that with the normal baggage cars either.

 

[NY Penn]

When the train is approaching a station, the conductor enters the baggage car to prepare baggage for offloading. This shortens the duration of a station stop.

 

[Nathanael]

NM RailRunner was specifically for the purpose of people living in ABQ and commuting to Santa Fe. It seems to be fairly popular for that purpose, so it will probably stay around.

Three of the stations are for people living in ABQ, with a fourth planned.

Two are for worksites in Santa Fe.

Three are for Native American pueblos, in order to gain their support. This was important as they have some veto power.

One is to gain the support of the City of Bernalillo.

Two are designed as park-and-rides to catch people driving to Santa Fe before they hit Santa Fe downtown traffic.

Two are for towns (Belen and Los Lunas) with lots of commuters to Albuquerque as well as Santa Fe; their parking lots fill up reliably.

The final unfinished station was to get the support of the locals living near Zia Road, but that's been a mess since only half of the locals

want the station. I don't think RailRunner really cares whether or not it opens.

If the SWC is rerouted, uninformed consensus seems to be that stations would (somehow) be built/rebuilt in Wichita and Amarillo, and that the SWC would continue to go to Albuquerque, reversing direction on the existing wye (refurbished, presumably) south of downtown.