Why is Amtrak coach more expensive than flying?

[TVRM610]

This is not how the transportation system in this country works. The quickest flight is not always the most expensive. Many times I have seen Greyhound Bus fares more expensive then amtrak fares, and they take even longer most of the time (due to crazy scheduled layovers).

In some ways all transportation companies compete with each other. Heck the Amtrak trains compete with NJ Transit! For that matter the Silver Star competes with the Silver Meteor.. just because there are multiple ways to get there doesn't mean one has to have different prices. I respect your opinion but I do not think it is grounded in the reality of the world we live in. If time = money then why is fast food cheaper than a sit down meal? McDonalds delivers my burger alot faster then Ruby Tuesday so they should be charging a premium under your logic.

 

[saxman]

This is not how the transportation system in this country works. The quickest flight is not always the most expensive. Many times I have seen Greyhound Bus fares more expensive then amtrak fares, and they take even longer most of the time (due to crazy scheduled layovers).
In some ways all transportation companies compete with each other. Heck the Amtrak trains compete with NJ Transit! For that matter the Silver Star competes with the Silver Meteor.. just because there are multiple ways to get there doesn't mean one has to have different prices. I respect your opinion but I do not think it is grounded in the reality of the world we live in. If time = money then why is fast food cheaper than a sit down meal? McDonalds delivers my burger alot faster then Ruby Tuesday so they should be charging a premium under your logic.

He was talking about in general, time equals money, so using that logic, slower modes 'should' be less expensive. Before deregulation of the airlines it was way more expensive to fly. Now that airlines compete and the advent of low-cost carriers, your cross-country trip can be pretty cheap sometimes.

And comparing restaurants to travel is an apple and oranges comparison. At McDonalds you're not paying for service or quality of your burger. At Ruby Tuesday you are.

So time does equal money.

 

[Guest]

This is not how the transportation system in this country works. The quickest flight is not always the most expensive. Many times I have seen Greyhound Bus fares more expensive then amtrak fares, and they take even longer most of the time (due to crazy scheduled layovers).
In some ways all transportation companies compete with each other. Heck the Amtrak trains compete with NJ Transit! For that matter the Silver Star competes with the Silver Meteor.. just because there are multiple ways to get there doesn't mean one has to have different prices. I respect your opinion but I do not think it is grounded in the reality of the world we live in. If time = money then why is fast food cheaper than a sit down meal? McDonalds delivers my burger alot faster then Ruby Tuesday so they should be charging a premium under your logic.

I bet you would be pretty pissed if Ruby Tuesday handed you a smushed up Big Mac in a cardboard box.

 

[AlcoLoco]

One way flights from Los Angeles to Eugene, OR on Dec. 10, 2009 start at $228, including taxes but not checked bag fees and whatever else they come up with before then. Undiscounted Amtrak coach is $92. My roomette on the CS runs $250.20 with a senior discount. Not having to take off my shoes until I'm ready to crawl into my bunk is worth about $25.

 

[stonesfan]

One way flights from Los Angeles to Eugene, OR on Dec. 10, 2009 start at $228, including taxes but not checked bag fees and whatever else they come up with before then. Undiscounted Amtrak coach is $92. My roomette on the CS runs $250.20 with a senior discount. Not having to take off my shoes until I'm ready to crawl into my bunk is worth about $25.

Having travelled on a number of international railway systems, I can absolutely confirm that Amtrak is not 'expensive' at all. Not blinding value for money, but value for money none the less.

 

[TVRM610]

This is not how the transportation system in this country works. The quickest flight is not always the most expensive. Many times I have seen Greyhound Bus fares more expensive then amtrak fares, and they take even longer most of the time (due to crazy scheduled layovers).
In some ways all transportation companies compete with each other. Heck the Amtrak trains compete with NJ Transit! For that matter the Silver Star competes with the Silver Meteor.. just because there are multiple ways to get there doesn't mean one has to have different prices. I respect your opinion but I do not think it is grounded in the reality of the world we live in. If time = money then why is fast food cheaper than a sit down meal? McDonalds delivers my burger alot faster then Ruby Tuesday so they should be charging a premium under your logic.

I bet you would be pretty pissed if Ruby Tuesday handed you a smushed up Big Mac in a cardboard box.

Haha.. that I would be. And saxman I know that it's not a direct comparison but it still fits with that logic. I do think that flying is a better value sometimes, as is drivng, as is the bus, as is taking the train! There are times when ALL forms of transit provide the most value, depending on the circumstance. Then there is a matter of preference.. for me the best value is taking the train cause i will enjoy it the most! If your whole goal is to get from point A to point B as quickly as possible then usually in the USA a direct flight will be the best option for you if it is available (depending on a few variables but certainly CHI-LAX and such).

 

[whistler]

Going by rail when traveling on biz-ness requires a LOT of prep, and if I need to go to (from BWI) to Chicago, or the Twin Cities, or God Forbid Louisville, then it's just plain difficult. I have to factor in a roomette if going overnight, so the cost v. air is often no comparison.
Going to NOLA in Feb, about $250 from BWI to the Crescent City, ONE WAY in sleeper. RT airfare on SWA is just a bit less, (RT).

Luckily for me, a lot of my biz-ness travel is in the Northeast, where Amtrak does have an advantage.

Am at a dead end for a trip to Halifax thou........ Looks like Amtrak Regional ($48), Adirondack ($69), Nite-In-Hotel-In-Montreal ($100) and Via's Ocean in sleeper ($285) is about $500 give or take, not to mention meals. Then I still have to pay $200 to fly back. RT airfare is about $430.

So I'll end up paying about $300 more to take the train/air option...

I'm more than open to options.....and advice............

Well you can take the Cat ferry from Portland to Yarmouth. Amatrak will get you to Portland. Yarmouth to Halifax probably has a bus or you can rent a car.

http://www.thecloudnineshuttle.com/

 

[Guest]

Airlines may be cheaper in some markets. Some of you are only looking at major city pairs, Orlando to NYC, Chicago to DC, or LAX to Seattle. But it's a different story when you look at smaller cities that may be served by only a few regionals. Almost everytime Amtrak will be cheaper. I use to live in Grand Forks, ND which is only served by Northwest Airlines only with flight to MSP. A flight to there would be at least $200 or $300. Even more when you connected somewhere else. Amtrak OTOH was about $80 round trip. So consider the smaller city pairs too, something the airlines can't compete with. Havre to Seattle. Minot to Milwaukee, Lincoln to Cleveland. Flagstaff to LA.
Also keep in mind airfares aren't going to be cheap anymore. I believe gone are the days of $99 fares from Chicago to LAX. Thats even if you take Southwest. I read some city pairs have gone up 4 times since last year. The article said the going rate for Houston to Providence is $749 verse $350 a year ago. Thats on the extreme side though. I think we'll see more people combine train and plane trips. We just need to make our infrastructure more intermodal.

I was looking at prices to go from Fargo ND to Seattle WA. On Amtrak it would cost me around $600.00 to fly it will only be $340.00. I hate flying with a passion but I can't justify spending that much more money and time when I actually want to be somewhere.

 

[RTOlson]

^^

Depending when you buy tickets, that trip could cost about $300 on Amtrak. By the same token, flying could cost as much as $640-900 if you wanted to leave tomorrow.

I recognize that the prices that matter most are the ones that apply for the trip that is being planned.

It's good to shop around and I'm glad that Amtrak gives me another transportation option to consider.

 

[darien-l]

The lowest-bucket price between Fargo and Seattle is $153 one-way, or $306 round-trip. Either try to get your train tickets well ahead of time (unlike airline tickets, they're fully refundable), or try to find dates with lower fares.

 

[dlagrua]

I would say that Amtrak coach is generally less expensive than flying. If you add in the bedroom like we do, then it can be more. If you book out in advance you can get a good fare or on some routes like the NE corridor, coach seats are always cheaper than flying. Also consider that some locations along Amtrak routes can be 100 or more miles away from any airport.

I am an advocate for holding the price on fares, particularly on sleepers. I expect to pay more for a train trip but not 3 or 4 times what the airlines charge. Most of our trips are overnight and it can be argued that train are slower. However, most of the LD routes travel overnight and wherever you may be, you always use that time for sleeping anyway. If bedrooms cost in the $200-$250 per night range we'll take the train everytime, rather than be subjected to the crowded, filthy, unhealthly, dehumanizing conditions of air travel. The seats on an airline are very tight for 200lb 5'11" man like myself, there is often no food available and when it is, it's of lower quality than what we probably feed to prisoners. The TSA people are often rude and overzealous and you are required to put your laptop bag and carry on stuff (including food) in a bin that has held 1000 of pairs of dirty shoes- yuuuucch, it makes me want to vomit.

Train travel is the easy going, more comfortable way to travel. There is room and plenty of it. If you go the bedroom route as we do, the privacy is terrific, the food service is usually good to very good, the scenery is intertesting and being able to shower and dress before we arrive at our destination is a plus. From an environmental standpoint the train uses FAR less fuel per passenger per mile than an airline does.

I guess that we here on this forum have an appreciation for the slower, easy going, comfortable way to travel. More seem to be traveling by rail these days so the trend towards rail travel is on the rise while air travel is on the decline.

 

[Ryan]

If you book out in advance you can get a good fare or on some routes like the NE corridor, coach seats are always cheaper than flying.

Not always true - was looking at a trip from WAS to BOS in November with a coworker yesterday to attend the wedding of a third coworker. Southwest was able to do the roundtrip (up on Friday, back on Sunday) for $315, the cheapest Amtrak fare was $390 (both prices are approximate). She hadn't decided yet, but was leaning towards the train because (in her words) "The extra few bucks might be worth it to not have to get from Alexandria, VA to BWI, pay for parking, go through security and then sit at the airport and wait for the plane".

 

[amamba]

I completely disagree with the statement that coach seats are always cheaper than flying in the NEC. When I went to PHL a few weekends ago, there were tickets on Southwest from PHL - PVD for about $100 RT! I paid about $300 roundtrip on the acela (I know, not coach) but even the NEC regional was about $80 each way which is $160 roundtrip. Of course, that was me checking tickets two months prior to departure, so the train was no longer low bucket, but it is interesting that you can often get cheaper airfares last minute but the train only gets more expensive the longer you wait.

 

[dlagrua]

I completely disagree with the statement that coach seats are always cheaper than flying in the NEC. When I went to PHL a few weekends ago, there were tickets on Southwest from PHL - PVD for about $100 RT! I paid about $300 roundtrip on the acela (I know, not coach) but even the NEC regional was about $80 each way which is $160 roundtrip. Of course, that was me checking tickets two months prior to departure, so the train was no longer low bucket, but it is interesting that you can often get cheaper airfares last minute but the train only gets more expensive the longer you wait.

From PHL to WAS on the NE regional a R/T ticket has cost about $80.00. Last time we traveled in April we only booked 12 days in advance so I don't know where your fare info is coming from. The ACELA will cost more than air travel and the time savings is minimal 10 minutes at best.

 

[Ryan]

Nobody ever flies PHL-WAS.

 

[dlagrua]

Nobody ever flies PHL-WAS.

Then price the fare from Metropark Iselin. That would be in the market where travelers have a choice to go to Newark or go Amtrak. There are flights to DC from Newark.

 

[Ryan]

Your point being what, that Amtrak is always cheaper on the corridor? That's already been proven incorrect.

 

[PaulM]

There is another Amtrak forum that prohibits posting prices. I'm beginning to see the wisdom of that edict.

Tastes Great! No. :Less Filling!

 

[Exiled in Express]

My most recent booking, St Paul-Cincinnati return:

Fly: (at needed times) $348 8 hours including security and layover at Chicago OHare

Amtrak: no southbound train on departure date, $90 northbound, 22 hours including 4 hour layover in Chicago Loop

The result is fly one way, rail the other. I view Amtrak as complimentary to air, not a direct competitor. Will it take longer? Yes, but 8 hours of travel kills the day anyway and 8 of the Amtrak hours are overnight sleeping time.

 

[Donctor]

I completely disagree with the statement that coach seats are always cheaper than flying in the NEC. When I went to PHL a few weekends ago, there were tickets on Southwest from PHL - PVD for about $100 RT! I paid about $300 roundtrip on the acela (I know, not coach) but even the NEC regional was about $80 each way which is $160 roundtrip. Of course, that was me checking tickets two months prior to departure, so the train was no longer low bucket, but it is interesting that you can often get cheaper airfares last minute but the train only gets more expensive the longer you wait.

From PHL to WAS on the NE regional a R/T ticket has cost about $80.00. Last time we traveled in April we only booked 12 days in advance so I don't know where your fare info is coming from. The ACELA will cost more than air travel and the time savings is minimal 10 minutes at best.

Last summer, it was $68 roundtrip PHL-NYP on the Regional. PHL-WAS roundtrip was only slightly more expensive. And these prices were what I was given the day of travel. That was convenient.

Paying Acela prices, not so convenient.

 

[Ryan]

There is another Amtrak forum that prohibits posting prices. I'm beginning to see the wisdom of that edict.

The only thing dumber than the rule is the rationale behind it. Really par for the course for the forum in question.

 

[dlagrua]

Your point being what, that Amtrak is always cheaper on the corridor? That's already been proven incorrect.

Opinion means nothing, facts do. If you want the data I will present it and offer a wager. I use to travel to DC on the Acele and NE regiona Amtrak trains frequently for business. Amtrak NEC (coach) was always less expensive than flying, parking was cheaper, the drive was shorter and the trip was quicker. Only the Acela was more expensive.

 

[Ryan]

That's great for your two city pairs. You made an absolute statement that flying was always more expensive on the NEC, several counterexamples have proven that statement false. Not sure what else you're getting at by talking about opinions and wagers, to be honest.

 

[amamba]

I completely disagree with the statement that coach seats are always cheaper than flying in the NEC. When I went to PHL a few weekends ago, there were tickets on Southwest from PHL - PVD for about $100 RT! I paid about $300 roundtrip on the acela (I know, not coach) but even the NEC regional was about $80 each way which is $160 roundtrip. Of course, that was me checking tickets two months prior to departure, so the train was no longer low bucket, but it is interesting that you can often get cheaper airfares last minute but the train only gets more expensive the longer you wait.

From PHL to WAS on the NE regional a R/T ticket has cost about $80.00. Last time we traveled in April we only booked 12 days in advance so I don't know where your fare info is coming from. The ACELA will cost more than air travel and the time savings is minimal 10 minutes at best.

Well I am looking at PVD - PHL, not PHL - WAS, and the prices are different between those two city pairs. Low bucket is $56/one way I believe (just by testing out some dates on amtrak.com) and I saw prices go as high as $127 one way which might not even be high bucket. Those prices are absolutely higher than some airfares. I just checked July 14 and July 18 for comparison purposes.

And again, when looking at PVD-PHL, the acela saves anywhere from 45-60 minutes over the NE regional. I have no comment about PHL - WAS, but I can clearly demonstrate that amtrak coach is not always cheaper than flying on the NEC.

 

[PaulM]

There is another Amtrak forum that prohibits posting prices. I'm beginning to see the wisdom of that edict.

The only thing dumber than the rule is the rationale behind it. Really par for the course for the forum in question.

When somebody claims that an itinerary "costs" $x000, we know the number is meaningless in itself. So what is dumb about the rule, unless the purpose of a forum is to waste peoples time? Normally, your posts seem to be the opposite, cutting through gibberish with the straight talk.

A couple examples:

I just purchased tickets online after looking at several dates 3 1/2 months out for the outbound and return portions of a trip. Within the few minutes it took me to make the decision, the return price had jumped $100. And this only an overnight CUM-CHI in a roomette. Think of the difference if you were planning a complicated cross country trip in a bedroom.

A couple of years ago on the SEA to MSP segment alone of a long trip, the price of a roomette varied over $300 from date x to date x+1.