Why not Superbowl Specials?

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PRR 60

PRR 60

Engineer
AU Supporting Member
Gathering Team Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2003
Messages
8,507
So it is New England vs. Philadelphia in Super Bowl XXXIX in Jacksonville. Thousands of fans from both cities will be flying and driving south for the Big Game, some with game tickets and some just to be there. Flights are already sold out. Hotels are booked solid.

Why doesn’t someone at Amtrak HQ take a chance on trying something new? How about two Super Bowl special trains, one each from Boston / Providence and Philadelphia? The trains could be timed to arrive early morning on game day and leave several hours after the game. No hotel room needed. A bunch of Amfleets and a couple of cafes would do the trick. Charge a flat $300 round trip.

If Amtrak can scrape up equipment for the annual “school boy special”, where I can almost guarantee they get far less than $300 roundtrip, they could certainly find equipment for a train that would actually yield some decent revenue. Plus, the local PR in Boston and Philadelphia would be huge.

By the way, I’m not holding my breath. Amtrak is not an outfit prone to outbursts of imaginative marketing.
 
In this year's situation a Super Bowl Special could've been feasible. Leaving from the Northeast around 4 on day 1 and arriving in JAX around 8 or 9. But imagine if the scenario had worked out differently with say Seattle in the big game. The other problem is that special schedules have to be worked out with the host railroad far in advance, something that can't necessarily be done on this kind of timetable. Now, for this year they could offer a package that ties cars onto the rear of one of the regularly scheduled trains, put Boston fans on the rear of the Meteor and Philly fans on the bottom of the Star. Create a special area with its own lounge, possibly get a few past greats involved in the project and it could work. But a Special is out of the question IMHO.
 
It doesn't take any effort to easily dismiss this idea. Has anybody at Amtrak even considered looking into it?

"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly." - Robert F. Kennedy

"There are those who look at things the way they are, and ask why... I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?" - Robert F. Kennedy

"I did not have sex with that women, Miss Lewinsky." - William J. Clinton
 
What's your point? I did say the idea was unlikely to occur and I backed myself up. If I said it can't be done I'd see your point, but I made my point and supported it.
 
battalion51 said:
But imagine if the scenario had worked out differently with say Seattle in the big game. The other problem is that special schedules have to be worked out with the host railroad far in advance, something that can't necessarily be done on this kind of timetable.
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The above shows that I did dismiss it, and I did provide backup. Now as you can see below I also provided some alternatives:

Now, for this year they could offer a package that ties cars onto the rear of one of the regularly scheduled trains, put Boston fans on the rear of the Meteor and Philly fans on the bottom of the Star. Create a special area with its own lounge, possibly get a few past greats involved in the project and it could work.
Click to expand...
Now me being the good little writer I am I closed my post with a statement to sum up my thoughts as a whole, it's called a Thesis statement. Yes I know that usually comes at the beginning of a statement, but in this situation it makes sense as the closing statement. There's a reason why I have been recognized by the state as a top writer in the high school system. There's also a reason why my English I, II, and IV teachers believe I need to be a professional writer. I am decisive, opinionated, and not afraid to tell you that you're wrong. You're wrong.
 
Here is a fact. If Amtrak wanted to run such a train it would be run. I have no doubt that CSXT could support a one-time shot like that, particularly since the Superbowl is in the old hometown. In fact, the CSX marketing folks would have loved the PR. Amtrak’s problem is a total lack of imagination. They exhibit the classic victim complex. Whatever will happen to them has to bad, so why try.

So, basically, the fact that such a train was not even considered is par for the Amtrak course.
 
How far in advance would something need to be worked out with the host roads two weeks, a month, two months for a Super Bowl Special type train. Amtrak's marketing department could have come up with several different plans and then made some type of arrangements with the different host roads at the beginning of the playoffs and cancelled them with the different potential hosts as teams/cities were eliminated. This way they could have at the very least have had some agreement in place to be able to run the train. Although as PRR suggested if Amtrak wanted the train run they would have found a way to run it.
 
It all seems so easy to everyone, but go back just a few weeks and take a look at the teams in the playoffs - Chargers, Colts, Jets, Rams, Falcons, Packers, Vikings, etc, etc, etc. Only a few of these teams are near Amtrak service to Jacksonville, so who would have used their crystal ball to determine that the Eagles and the Patriots would be the eventual winners.

What it the Falcons and someone from the West Coast were the winners? No Amtrak service to Jacksonville that is logical would have been available.

In actuality, most of the fans for the Super Bowl are going to be there as guests of major corporations and they aren't going to be taking the train.

The idea of having a Special Super Bowl Train is great for conversation, but unless you know what is involved in putting together a special train and covering the costs, don't pretend to be an expert.

Amtrak constantly gets requests for special trains and as soon as the reality sets in and someone is asked to come up with the deposit, most of these inquiries go away. Amtrak is not in the business of running "spec" trains with no guarantee that space will be sold.
 
My final word on this and then I will go back to mindless speculating on whether Terrell Owens will play or not (sounds like he will).

Amtrak is well known in transportation circles as being utterly inept at marketing and opportunistic planning. Among my peers, I describe Amtrak as the US Postal Service of transportation, except that in recent years that has been an unfair insult to the Postal Service. Their policy on special trains is pretty much as expressed by the last “guest” (who sounds like she or he knows Amtrak pretty well): let us know what you want; make us completely whole financially (by our definition and usually up front); and IF we feel like it, we MIGHT do it for you as long as it does not inconvenience us one little bit. What a short-sighted way to do business.

Rail is a great way to travel and the need created by the Superbowl combined with crazed fans willing to pay whatever it cost to just get to Jacksonville created a unique opportunity to showcase their product. They could have made the train not just a way to get to Florida, but THE way to get to Florida. I do not doubt that there would have been some logistical problems to overcome, but I also know that people searching for a way to make things happen more times than not can, in fact, make things happen. My complaint with Amtrak (and I speak with far more than just railfan knowledge of Amtrak’s professional dealings) is that they almost always simply assume challenges as being impossible without even trying.

What great PR it could have been. Trains boarding at South Station and Thirtieth Street; maybe some former Pats and Birds hosting the trips (as a comp from Amtrak); TV news seeing the trains off; it could have been a public relations bonanza. How much advertising value would that have been worth in Amtrak’s most important market area? All it would have taken was a dollop of imagination and a smidgen of effort. Sadly, those particular qualities are missing at Amtrak.
 
Does Amtrak even have the equipment to run another special? (Maybe they could squeeze in an extra round-trip of the Palm Beach special cars).

How about taking a look at the Silver Star/Meteor for that weekend. Are those trains sold out? Will they be by the time the super bowl comes around? If there would be so much as one extra seat available on those trains by the time that weekend rolls around, Amtrak would be wasting its money running a special.
 
PRR60: Really now........

Do you really think your mythical passenger - who is willing to spend anything to go to the Super Bowl - is going to spend an overnight trip in Coach - since sleepers are in such limited supply? There are only 12 roomettes and 2 bedrooms on each sleeper car, so that limits the potential revenue from a special.

No matter what your opinion of the Amtrak marketing department, a special train to the Super Bowl is not an effective use of equipment or advertising. Do you know the cost of an ad in the PHL or BOS papers to promote such a venture? Since hotels are sold out in Jacksonville, do you really think your highroller passenger is going to spend his/her nights in a roadside motel in Patlatka, Jessup, GA or some other out of the way town near Jacksonville?

To madisonwi's point.....it is better to fill the trains that run to the destination first before spending the time, energy and money to run and promote a special train that may or may not sell out.

Special trains work for specific short haul events....such as the Dover and Rockingham NASCAR races............for which Amtrak has run special trains for several years........little risk.....high reward.

College Bowl games and Super Bowl do not lend themselves to special trains unless there is a short haul involved. If the Chargers had gotten into the Super Bowl, you can bet there would be a special train to the game....if it was played in San Diego or LA.

Nuff said...........now you can go back to worrying about something totally trivial..............Terrell Owens and his foot...........
 
PRR 60 said:
Here is a fact.  If Amtrak wanted to run such a train it would be run.  I have no doubt that CSXT could support a one-time shot like that, particularly since the Superbowl is in the old hometown.  In fact, the CSX marketing folks would have loved the PR.  Amtrak’s problem is a total lack of imagination.  They exhibit the classic victim complex.  Whatever will happen to them has to bad, so why try.  
So, basically, the fact that such a train was not even considered is par for the Amtrak course.
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What you call a 'fact' is merely your opinion.

Amtrak has wanted to undertake a vast number of new things over the years, but the host railroads have put up roadblocks, or some other faction has prevented Amtrak from pursuing its plan further. The points made by Guest and others are more illuminating of what really happens at Amtrak moreso than your overly simplistic and inaccurate picture.

Amtrak is cutting consists and cancelling trains up and down the NEC due to weather-related problems. The shop counts are high, the slots open on the NEC for additional trains aren't there, and then there's the costs associated with crewing and servicing the "extras". All that even before you venture to ask CSX if they will provide room for a special movement!

The truth is, things are so critical in these areas that Amtrak is going to become even more hesitant to honoring requests for special movements in the future. The focus of the business right now is getting the regularly-scheduled service up and running with a higher level of reliability -- not on accommodating whimsical requests for special trains.

So stop assuming your know-it-all posture about why and how things are done at Amtrak. Unless you work there, you have no legs to stand on.... :angry:
 
Gentlemen,

Everyone needs to take a deep breath and relax a bit. It is my hope that this topic can be discussed without stooping to name calling. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, regardless of whether the majority sees it as right or wrong. Now I'm not coming down on one side of the fence or the other on this topic, although I do find all the ideas and views interesting.

But we will remain civil or I will be forced to delete posts and/or lock or delete the entire thread. So I ask for everyone's cooperation, please! :)
 
Wow! If Alan had to go in and clean-up Railfan’s post, it must have been a good one. I’m sorry I missed it. Probably a Patriots fan! B)
 
Wow....just like half of the passengers as well as many fellow crew members.... people get their "feathers" ruffled soooo easily!!! LOL :D :lol:

Anyway, on a serious note, and I am not finger pointing anyone, but why does it seem those who do NOT have anything to do with actually "running" the railroad seem to have ALL the answers and the necessary know how to do so? I would like to see "them" come in and try to do it! In other words Wooo me!!

All in all of what I have read here in this thread, there are many interesting ideas to say the least! But lemme tell y'all something from the inside. This is Amtrak! Anything politically driven will "fly" whether it makes sense or not for the most part. David Gunn has indicated there will be absolutely NO new service (example FL East Coast Service) until the company is returned to a state of good repair both within its structure and physical characteristics. And there are other issues involved as well too numerous to list at this time. But "miraculous" things happen when the right "politician" or "political body," etc. gets involved! Now, the likelyhood of such a special in short notice, "slim and none!" But once again this is Amtrak! Amtrak never ceases to amaze me as my employer!

As far as the host railroads are concerned, most of the time if the "price is right" they will act! But it comes with a cost! In the East, CSX makes a considerable profit on the "Tropicana" contract! If Amtrak and/or the sponsoring party of such a special could outdo that contract or similar (compared at a one time basis for both), then CSX would most likely work the "magic" and make it happen seeing those $$$$ signs. It all depends on the varibles! But who am I? I am just a lowly OBS employee!! I just happened to be a retired manager in the company I was previously employed! LOL :D OBS........
 
PRR60: CSX is planning their own VIP Train for the Super Bowl - leasing additional cars from the MD Scenic Railroad, so doubt if they would have given clearance anyway for an Amtrak Special Train........
 

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