Winter Park (Colorado) Express is back

[Willbridge]

Where do they do the run around to head back?

I checked with someone who knows how things have been done in the third generation of ski train service.

"They run the train to the siding at Fraser and then cut off the power and run it to the other end. The train sits at Fraser all day. one leg on the Tabernash wye has been out of service for years. In the first year or two of the Winter Park Express they had an F40 cab car at the opposite end which eliminated the need to switch power from one end of the train to the other. I think that only lasted a year or two."

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[railiner]

Back when the first generation Ski Train ran, actually a charter by the large youth oriented Eskimo Ski Club, the Club allocated one car (the streamlined former Prospector combine), to the NRHS Intermountain Chapter, to resell to its members. For those not interested in spending the day skiing, they would let us ride around the wye at Tabernash, before returning to the ski area. From there, we could do some late skiing, or ride a snowmobile tour of the slopes, for non-skier's. Or we could ride a shuttle bus over to the Hideaway Park village, for lunch...

 

[lordsigma]

Some cheesy promotional stories on local news. Magliari was on board and interviewed in one bragging about how you can booze it up on board which you can’t do driving. It’s a good service though so might as well promote it.

 

[GDRRiley]

"They run the train to the siding at Fraser and then cut off the power and run it to the other end. The train sits at Fraser all day. one leg on the Tabernash wye has been out of service for years. In the first year or two of the Winter Park Express they had an F40 cab car at the opposite end which eliminated the need to switch power from one end of the train to the other. I think that only lasted a year or two."

That sounds like UP, why keep 1500ft of track maintained
Shame amtrak can't get 1-2 more coaches for the train seems very popular

 

[west point]

I seem to recall many years ago that there was a controlled siding right at the ski resort. Am I wrong?

 

[lordsigma]

That sounds like UP, why keep 1500ft of track maintained
Shame amtrak can't get 1-2 more coaches for the train seems very popular

Superliners are rather tight at the moment especially having to run them on the Carbondale corridor service. The fact that they are running it at all is controversial to some while consists on some routes remain anemic even though it’s just one trainset. There’d understandably be a lot of backlash if they dropped a coach off another train like the Capitol limited to add another two coaches to this.

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

As an aside, there was an avalanche yesterday on US 40 up over Berthoud Pass (main route to Winter Park, as well as Steamboat and points north & northwest) yesterday. Sounds like no fatalities, but cars buried. The road is still closed (as are big chunks of I-70), so the Ski Train and CZ are the easiest ways in and out from Denver.

https://www.wunderground.com/video/top-stories/avalanche-in-colorado-mountains-prompts-road-closures

 

[lordsigma]

The western part of the Zephyr and the ski train are one of the few bright spots at the moment.

 

[west point]

With Berthoud pass closed some Denver area persons may want to take ski train back to Denver?

 

[railiner]

I seem to recall many years ago that there was a controlled siding right at the ski resort. Am I wrong?

Pretty certain there was a siding...whether it was controlled or manual, I'm not sure...

 

[keelhauled]

The western part of the Zephyr and the ski train are one of the few bright spots at the moment.

Or not.

 

[lordsigma]

Or not.

I jinxed it!

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

Arrived at Denver at 3 am.
Winter Park to Denver scheduled arrival time of 6:40 pm.

Ouch.

 

[Palmland]

I seem to recall many years ago that there was a controlled siding right at the ski resort. Am I wrong?

According to Google Maps a siding is still there although stops short of where the old sidings were and the Winter Park station. This prompted me to scan some slides I took when in college at CSU from the winter of 1967/68. My date (wife a year later) and I went there for the day. As you can see the cars were ancient! The two sidings extend almost to the mouth of Moffet Tunnel (visible in the distance of the first slide). The last photo was a late CZ on that bitter cold day, I believe near Frasier. My wife still reminds me of sitting in the car freezing while waiting for it.

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

That reddit thread was insane - but no reason for the delays?

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

That reddit thread was insane - but no reason for the delays?

Frozen equipment would be my guess. The whole put the equipment in a siding and run the engines around it, for the return. Sounds like a lot of work, that just gets harder as it gets colder. Also it seem an engine or two failed. Extreme cold weather will cause issues with seals, gaskets, and clamps. Never fun, but that why it’s called work.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

So it seems in the past the ski train had a cab car “cabbage” included in the set. This of course prevent the need to shuffle equipment around.

The delays were also caused by a breakdown of snow removal equipment by the Host Railroad.

Both engines on the ski train failed. A third engine rescue them.

Unknown why the CZ did not rescue them when it traveled past the ski train. At the very least taken the ski trains four coaches of passenger and filling the dinner, lounge and make the rest stand in the aisle. Not the best situation but better than a 3am return.

A very cold set of equipment entering a tunnel that is warmer and higher level of humidity will cause additional issues which seem to be the another delay for this train.

Armchair quarterbacking. #1 Can we reestablish the wye. #2 Have a heated garage to park the equipment between runs. #3 Need a better parking space in Denver. (Complaints about the equipment idling of the engine between runs.)

Improvement might be needed, otherwise we going to run off the customer if the reliability is not high.

 

[west point]

Both engines on the ski train failed. A third engine rescue them.

Unknown why the CZ did not rescue them when it traveled past the ski train. At the very least taken the ski trains four coaches of passenger and filling the dinner, lounge and make the rest stand in the aisle. Not the best situation but better than a 3am return.

A very cold set of equipment entering a tunnel that is warmer and higher level of humidity will cause additional issues which seem to be the another delay for this train.

Improvement might be needed, otherwise we going to run off the customer if the reliability is not high.

Why did Amtrak not have CZ back onto the ski train. Then stop a WPR to pick ski riders and proceed to Denver? One reason to not do that would be if CZ could not make track speed in the uphill climb thru the tunnel with the extra cars and locos.

 

[railiner]

According to Google Maps a siding is still there although stops short of where the old sidings were and the Winter Park station. This prompted me to scan some slides I took when in college at CSU from the winter of 1967/68. My date (wife a year later) and I went there for the day. As you can see the cars were ancient! The two sidings extend almost to the mouth of Moffet Tunnel (visible in the distance of the first slide). The last photo was a late CZ on that bitter cold day, I believe near Frasier. My wife still reminds me of sitting in the car freezing while waiting for it.

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Nice shots!

When I rode the Ski Train in the 1970's, its consist was usually a pair of EMD GP40's, a former Alco PB steam generator car, a streamliner combine from the former Prospector, and eight heavyweight former NP coaches, of 1915 vintage.
I don't recognize the Santa Fe car, nor what look like UP cars in the photos...they were not there in the mid to late '70's.

 

[railiner]

Back in the D&RGW era, the Ski Train, along with the RGZ, was towed by a switch engine back to the Burnham Shops for servicing and storage. I don't know if that exists anymore, but the direct route to it, out the SW end of the Denver station is of course, long gone...

 

[Palmland]

and eight heavyweight former NP coaches, of 1915 vintage.

Yes, there were NP coaches on the Ski Train, in addition to the ATSF, UP, and DRGW. I believe the interior shot was one of the NP cars.That same winter we took the CZ to Bond (Orestod) where the junction is for the branch to Craig. After a 35 minute wait we got the Yampa Valley back (photo). It didn't occur to us that the CZ might be late and we would be stuck there until the eastbound CZ two hours later. Perhaps the current ski train will morph into a version of this as there is talk about adding service to Steamboat Springs and Craig.

 

[Maverickstation]

Back to the actual Winter Park Express, it does have a Cafe Car, limited to snacks, and drinks, alcoholic and other wise.

https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/...enus/routes/Winter-Park-Express-Menu-2023.pdf

 

[Willbridge]

In 1986 when my dad visited us in Denver, he identified the NP cars with their Pullman windows right away. His comment: "I rode standing on Train 401 in one of those!" Train 401 was the six-hour overnight mail train between Portland and Seattle, discontinued in 1959 or 1960.

Those cars were built for Pullman service, then downgraded to tourist sleepers, and then the berths were ripped out and walkover seats that the NP had salvaged from older cars were installed. This is how we won World War II.



Some newer NP sleeper conversions lasted in regular service into the mid-1960's, until second-hand lightweight cars became available. Again, note the window spacing.

 

[railiner]

In 1986 when my dad visited us in Denver, he identified the NP cars with their Pullman windows right away. His comment: "I rode standing on Train 401 in one of those!" Train 401 was the six-hour overnight mail train between Portland and Seattle, discontinued in 1959 or 1960.

Those cars were built for Pullman service, then downgraded to tourist sleepers, and then the berths were ripped out and walkover seats that the NP had salvaged from older cars were installed. This is how we won World War II.

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Some newer NP sleeper conversions lasted in regular service into the mid-1960's, until second-hand lightweight cars became available. Again, note the window spacing.

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Not seen in those photo's, are the heavy leaded glass windows for the restrooms, which still contained in beaded glass pattern, the distinctive NP 'monad' logo...

 

[Trollopian]

Those cars were built for Pullman service, then downgraded to tourist sleepers, and then the berths were ripped out and walkover seats that the NP had salvaged from older cars were installed. This is how we won World War II.

Thank you for this bit of history, Willbridge. But showing my ignorance...what's a "walkover seat?" (Does this refer to what I think of as "bench seating," i.e., seat backs attached to the wall, rather than 2 x 2 seating on both sides of the aisle?)