abqdave
Train Attendant
Colorado, New Mexico and Texas will submit a joint application tomorrow for funding to study the viability of an El Paso-ABQ-Denver high speed rail line. http://www.democracyfornewmexico.com/democ...speed-rail.html
According to wikipedia, El Paso metropolitan area has a population of 736,000. If one includes Ciudad Juarez across the border, the greater metropolitan region expands to 2 million. But given the problems and the drug war just across the border, one wonders how or if they would include the Mexican side population in a study. Have to juggle the politics carefully.El Paso doesn't exactly have a super-high population. If they want to build this, they need to expand to San Antonio or Houston.
There is the existing track that Amtrak uses from Trinidad, CO to Albuquerque. What is the quality of that segment and how much work would be it to upgrade it to 90 or 110 mph peak speeds?By the time they get from Denver to Albuquerque, going on to El Paso will be dirt cheap.
I believe that segment is way to curved to be upgraded. Trains now run really slow over most of it.There is the existing track that Amtrak uses from Trinidad, CO to Albuquerque. What is the quality of that segment and how much work would be it to upgrade it to 90 or 110 mph peak speeds?By the time they get from Denver to Albuquerque, going on to El Paso will be dirt cheap.
You sure? I thought that was one of the stretches where the Amtrak Southwest Chief runs at 90 mph.I believe that segment is way to curved to be upgraded. Trains now run really slow over most of it.There is the existing track that Amtrak uses from Trinidad, CO to Albuquerque. What is the quality of that segment and how much work would be it to upgrade it to 90 or 110 mph peak speeds?By the time they get from Denver to Albuquerque, going on to El Paso will be dirt cheap.
The only area I know that the Southwest Chief hits 90 mph is most of Kansas, Colorado, and possibly parts of Arizona. Between Trinidad, CO to Albuquerque, NM it's 80 mph. I've never ridden the southwest chief before, but I know this from the documentary. "America By Rails: Route of the Southwest Chief"You sure? I thought that was one of the stretches where the Amtrak Southwest Chief runs at 90 mph.I believe that segment is way to curved to be upgraded. Trains now run really slow over most of it.There is the existing track that Amtrak uses from Trinidad, CO to Albuquerque. What is the quality of that segment and how much work would be it to upgrade it to 90 or 110 mph peak speeds?By the time they get from Denver to Albuquerque, going on to El Paso will be dirt cheap.
Glorieta Subdivision1. Speed Regulations1(A). Speed—Maximum
...........................................Passenger ........Freight
MP 554.9 to MP 635.8 .............. 90 MPH. ....... 55 MPH.
MP 635.8 to MP 770.1 .............. 79 MPH. ....... 55 MPH.
MP 554.9 to MP 770.1, freight trains exceeding
10,000 feet; or 90 TOB or more ..................... 45 MPH.
From MP 554.9 to MP 635.8 and from MP 659.5 to MP 770.1, unless otherwise restricted, the maximum speed for freight trains is 70 MPH provided:
1. Train does not contain empty car(s). Refer to SSI 1© for determining speed for multiplatform, intermodal equipment.
2. Train does not exceed 8,500 feet.
3. Train does not average more than 80 TOB.
4. Engineer can control speed to 70 MPH without use of air brakes.
(If unable to control speed to 70 MPH on long descending grades, two additional attempts are allowed to control speed with dynamic brake at slower speeds before speed must be reduced to 55 MPH while negotiating descending grade.)
Trains operating with solid double stack equipment only, may use a maximum of 32 axles of dynamic braking per engine consist.
1(B). Speed—Permanent Restrictions
................................................................Passenger...... Freight
- - - -
MP 633.5 to MP 633.8 .................................. 75 MPH.
MP 636.1 to MP 637.5 .................................. 20 MPH. ....... 20 MPH.
MP 637.5 to MP 638.5 .................................. 45 MPH. ....... 35 MPH.
MP 638.5 to MP 643.0 .................................. 30 MPH. ....... 30 MPH.
MP 643.0 to MP 648.9 ** .............................. 25 MPH. ....... 20 MPH.
MP 648.9 to MP 651.2 ** .............................. 20 MPH. ....... 20 MPH.
MP 651.2 to MP 657.9 * ** ........................... 25 MPH. ....... 20 MPH.
MP 657.9 to MP 659.4 .................................. 40 MPH. ....... 20 MPH.
MP 659.9 to MP 660.5 ** .............................. 45 MPH. ....... 40 MPH.
MP 660.8 to MP 661.7 ................................... 70 MPH. ....... 60 MPH.
MP 663.1 to MP 667.1 ........................................................ 65 MPH.
MP 690.2 to MP 690.5 * ** ............................ 50 MPH. ....... 45 MPH.
MP 690.9 to MP 691.2 ................................... 55 MPH. ....... 50 MPH.
MP 691.6 to MP 692.0 ................................... 65 MPH. ....... 55 MPH.
MP 692.2 to MP 692.5 ........................................................ 65 MPH.
MP 696.0 to MP 696.2 ................................... 70 MPH. ....... 55 MPH.
MP 698.3 to MP 700.3 ................................... 65 MPH. ....... 55 MPH.
MP 719.1 to MP 719.3 ........................................................ 65 MPH.
MP 730.8 to MP 731.6 ........................................................ 65 MPH.
MP 736.1 to MP 739.8 * ** ............................ 40 MPH. ....... 40 MPH.
MP 739.8 to MP 747.3 * ** ............................ 45 MPH. ....... 40 MPH.
MP 747.6 to MP 748.1 * ** ............................ 40 MPH. ....... 35 MPH.
MP 748.1 to MP 749.0 * ** ............................ 45 MPH. ....... 35 MPH.
MP 749.0 to MP 749.9 * ** ............................ 40 MPH. ....... 35 MPH.
MP 754.7 to MP 754.9 * **................................................. 65 MPH.
El Paso Line speed restrictions1. Speed Regulations1(A). Speed—Maximum
.................................................................Passenger ..... Freight
MP 770.1 to MP 27.4 ..................................... 79 MPH. ....... 55 MPH.
Trains exceeding 10,000 feet, or
Trains 90 TOB or more ..................................................... 45MPH.
From MP 770.1 to MP 27.4, unless otherwise restricted, the maximum speed for freight trains is 70 MPH provided:
1. Train does not contain empty car(s). Refer to SSI 1© for determining speed for multiplatform, intermodal equipment.
2. Train does not exceed 8,500 feet.
3. Train does not average more than 80 TOB.
4. Engineer can control speed to 70 MPH without use of air brakes.
(If unable to control speed to 70 MPH on long descending grades, two additional attempts are allowed to control speed with dynamic brake at slower speeds before speed must be reduced to 55 MPH while negotiating descending grade.)
Trains operating with solid double stack equipment only, may use a maximum of 32 axles of dynamic braking per engine consist
1(B). Speed—Permanent Restrictions
...........................................................Passenger ..... Freight
MP 770.7 to MP 772.0 ............................. 75 MPH. ....... 60 MPH.
MP 772.6 to MP 772.8 * .......................... 40 MPH. ....... 35 MPH.
MP 772.8 to MP 779.4 * .......................... 50 MPH. ....... 45 MPH.
MP 779.4 to MP 781.9 ............................. 55 MPH. ....... 50 MPH.
MP 782.3 to MP 784.1 ............................. 40 MPH. ....... 40 MPH.
MP 784.7 to MP 784.9 ............................. 40 MPH. ....... 40 MPH.
MP 786.1 to MP 786.3 ............................. 60 MPH. ....... 45 MPH.
MP 786.5 to MP 787.0 * ** ...................... 50 MPH. ....... 45 MPH.
MP 788.4 to MP 790.5 ............................. 50 MPH. ....... 45 MPH.
MP 790.8 to MP 793.9 ............................. 45 MPH. ....... 40 MPH.
MP 794.3 to MP 794.5 ............................. 45 MPH.
MP 794.7 to MP 795.2 * ** ...................... 45 MPH. ....... 20 MPH.
MP 795.2 to MP 799.9 * ** ...................... 25 MPH. ....... 20 MPH.
MP 800.4 to MP 802.8 * ** ...................... 50 MPH. ....... 45 MPH.
MP 804.0 to MP 805.1 * ** ...................... 55 MPH. ....... 45 MPH.
MP 805.1 to MP 805.8 * ** ...................... 45 MPH. ....... 45 MPH.
MP 805.8 to MP 808.8 * ** ...................... 50 MPH. ....... 45 MPH.
MP 812.3 to MP 812.8 .............................. 50 MPH. ....... 45 MPH.
MP 812.8 to MP 814.3 .............................. 45 MPH. ....... 40 MPH.
MP 814.3 to MP 814.4 .............................. 60 MPH.
MP 815.0 to MP 815.6 .............................. 65 MPH.
MP 818.6 to MP 818.9 .............................. 55 MPH. ....... 50 MPH.
MP 819.2 to MP 819.5 * ** ....................... 50 MPH. ....... 40 MPH.
MP 819.6 to MP 819.7 * ** ....................... 40 MPH. ....... 35 MPH.
MP 819.7 to MP 824.6 .............................. 50 MPH. ....... 35 MPH.
MP 824.6 to MP 824.9 * * ........................ 35 MPH. ....... 30 MPH.
MP 824.9 to MP 825.8 * ** ....................... 25 MPH. ....... 20 MPH.
MP 825.8 to MP 827.8 * ** ....................... 20 MPH. ....... 20 MPH.
MP 827.8 to MP 829.5 * ** ....................... 25 MPH. ....... 20 MPH.
MP 830.2 to MP 831.7 * ** ........................ 40 MPH. ....... 30 MPH.
MP 832.1 to MP 832.9 * ** ........................ 20 MPH. ....... 20 MPH.
MP 833.1 to MP 835.0 ............................... 65 MPH. ....... 50 MPH.
MP 850.7 to MP 851.5 .................................................... 55 MPH.
MP 852.5 to MP 853.7 * ............................. 35 MPH. ....... 30 MPH.
MP 861.3 to MP 862.2 .................................................... 60 MPH.
MP 898.8 to MP 899.4 (HER) ...................... 60 MPH. ....... 60 MPH.
MP 899.4 to MP 901.5 (HER) ...................... 50 MPH. ....... 50 MPH.
MP 902.0 to MP 902.3, Main 2 .................... 25 MPH. ....... 25 MPH.
MP 903.8 Abajo to MP 905.2 (Westward trains may resume speed when
the head end clears the restricted area) ...... 20 MPH. ....... 20 MPH.
MP 905.2 to MP 905.4 ................................ 70 MPH.
MP 12.5 to MP 13.6 .................................... 70 MPH.
MP 26.8 to MP 27.4 .................................... 50 MPH. ....... 40 MPH.
1. Speed Regulations1(A). Speed—Maximum
............................................................................Frei
ght
MP 915.0 to MP 932.4, including trains over 100 TOB ..... 49 MPH.
MP 934.4 to MP 1155.1, including trains over 100 TOB ... 49 MPH.
1(B). Speed—Permanent Restrictions
MP 914.9 to MP 915.2, (HER over crossing, EWD) .......... 20 MPH.
MP 957.9 to MP 966.3 ................................................. 30 MPH.
MP 973.1 to MP 973.5 ................................................. 45 MPH.
MP 985.3 to MP 986.3 ................................................. 40 MPH.
MP 987.5 to MP 987.7 ................................................. 30 MPH.
MP 1006.2 to MP 1022.2 .............................................. 40 MPH.
MP 1022.9 to MP 1023.1 .............................................. 30 MPH.
MP 1036.4 to MP 1037.0 .............................................. 45 MPH.
MP 1075.8 to MP 10791 ............................................... 30 MPH.
MP 1079.4 to MP 1079.8 ...................................... ....... 20 MPH.
MP 1079.9 to MP 1080.4 .............................................. 40 MPH.
MP 1082.8 to MP 1086.0 .............................................. 40 MPH.
MP 1088.4 to MP 1088.6 .............................................. 45 MPH.
MP 1090.1 to MP 1092.9 .............................................. 20 MPH.
MP 1093.3 to MP 1094.7 .............................................. 30 MPH.
MP 1096.0 to MP 1101.6 ............................................... 45 MPH.
MP 1111.5 to MP 1114.4 (HER) ..................................... 30 MPH.
MP 1147.5 to MP 1151.9 (HER) ..................................... 30 MPH.
MP 1151.9 to MP 1153.8 .............................................. 25 MPH.
Thanks for posting the very detailed info. There are quite a number of 25, 40, 50 mph max speed segments over that line. A number of those are presumably due to curvy tracks running through narrow passes or difficult terrain which would cost a bundle to straighten out or upgrade to moderate speeds. Given the vast distance between the major population centers, if the study comes back and says several billion $ for some new stations and upgrading the track from Pueblo, CO to El Paso, TX to 90 mph in some stretches, 79 in others, with a number of remaining slow 20 to 50 mph segments making for a overall average of 60 mph end to end, would it kill the idea? Hard to justify spending that much money if the travel time from El Paso to Denver is 12 or 13 hours with several trains a day.Here are the locations and speed restrictions on the existing line between Trinidad CO ad El Paso TX. From here anyone can make up their own minds aabout what is what.
If you read the documents at the Rocky Mountain Rail Authority website, they looked at using EMUs which can handle a 7% grade. Some of the plans would build a line that would mostly parallel I-70. There are rather detailed 54 and 97 page PDF viewgraph sets from a workshop at:I'd be more curious about high speed Denver to Vail? If you follow I70, grades are really steep, so construction would require tunneling to get the grade down, or lots of looping.
Great info, thanks for point me in the right direction!If you read the documents at the Rocky Mountain Rail Authority website, they looked at using EMUs which can handle a 7% grade. Some of the plans would build a line that would mostly parallel I-70. There are rather detailed 54 and 97 page PDF viewgraph sets from a workshop at:I'd be more curious about high speed Denver to Vail? If you follow I70, grades are really steep, so construction would require tunneling to get the grade down, or lots of looping.
http://rockymountainrail.org/documents/RMR..._AM_Finalad.pdf
http://rockymountainrail.org/documents/RMR...09_PM_Final.pdf
This thing is a huge boondoggle when we can't even get HS rail between Texas two largest metro areas, Houston and Dallas/Ft Worth. There are many more productive ways to spend 32 billion dollars. Even the cost of the study is a waste. The only viable part of the plan is the I25 corridor down to Pueblo. After that a conventional LD train once a day is all that is required and few would ride it. El Paso is not exactly your most popular destination.
A better prospect is a LD train to connect Texas DFW area with Colorado or extending the Heartland Flyer to KC. The Amtrak system is totally lacking in north-south connecting trains. A Texas Colorado train would of necessity use the joint line from Trinidad north. So it's feasible to join it there with one from El Paso and ABQ.
Thank you! Finally someone sees it too!I've always thought Dallas - Houston is one of the biggest holes in the current Amtrak network. If there's enough ridership to support a Fort Worth - Oklahoma City train, surely there'd be enough ridership to warrant a Dallas - Houston route!
Yes, and a few years back you came real close to getting it. You could have been riding trains by now. Dallas to Houston has the terrain made for a high speed railroad. In the 1950's there were four hour trains operated on one route that had a 90 mph speed limit for much of the distance. Unfortunately there was not enough traffic on the line to make the maintenance cost to keep it that way worthwhile. The line through Bryan / College Station that Amtrak used for a while, taking 6 hours, I think, had one train a day that did it in 4 1/2 hours in the 1950's.Thank you! Finally someone sees it too!I've always thought Dallas - Houston is one of the biggest holes in the current Amtrak network. If there's enough ridership to support a Fort Worth - Oklahoma City train, surely there'd be enough ridership to warrant a Dallas - Houston route!
To travel from Dallas to Houston or Houston to Dallas on AMTRAK would be a horrible, long, and a untimely experience. We NEED H.S. Rail more than El Paso or Denver combined!
Right now I'm all for Colorado to Houston, just starting to determine the best and fastest route on Amtrak from Denver to Houston. Maybe taking Greyhound part of the wayThis thing is a huge boondoggle when we can't even get HS rail between Texas two largest metro areas, Houston and Dallas/Ft Worth. There are many more productive ways to spend 32 billion dollars. Even the cost of the study is a waste. The only viable part of the plan is the I25 corridor down to Pueblo. After that a conventional LD train once a day is all that is required and few would ride it. El Paso is not exactly your most popular destination.
A better prospect is a LD train to connect Texas DFW area with Colorado or extending the Heartland Flyer to KC. The Amtrak system is totally lacking in north-south connecting trains. A Texas Colorado train would of necessity use the joint line from Trinidad north. So it's feasible to join it there with one from El Paso and ABQ.
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