"Lynchburger" Beats Projections

[railiner]

This is good news! But if an extension to Roanoke is in the works, why stop there? Push on to Bristol, Knoxville, Chattanooga, Memphis......!!!

Little Rock, Oklahoma City, Amarillo, ....well, you get the idea!!!!

Of course the farther you extend the train the more chances for delays and the less chance of it being a reliable choice for Virginia residents to ride, and Virginia would probably drop its sponsorship.

Perhaps so, but by that logic for example, should North Carolina insist the Carolinian travel no further north than Rocky Mount, keeping it entirely within its borders?

 

[afigg]

Came across a link to an editorial in the Roanoke Times titled "We need more options than cars" favoring returning passenger train service to Roanoke: http://www.roanoke.com/editorials/commentary/wb/230173. Long distance bus to DC area was standing room only?? Anyway, if the extended Regional to Lynchburg is seen as a success, could result in political and public support for extending the service to Lynchburg sooner rather than later.

Anyone know what would likely be the expected travel time from Lynchburg to Roanoke? An hour? 90 minutes? Are the tracks between Lynchburg and Roanoke in good condition or would Virginia (maybe with some federal intercity rail funding) have to put a lot of money into upgrading them for acceptable speed passenger service? Of course, they would have to either restore or build a new train station which would probably take years for the studies, EISs, RFPs before work on constructing a new station could be started.

 

[Amtrak839]

Of course, they would to either restore or build a new train station which would probably take years for the studies, EISs, RFPs before work on constructing a new station could be started.

One of Amtrak's ever popular double-wide trailers could probably be put in place while a proper station was being constructed. Several cities larger than Roanoke have had a double-wide trailer for a station at some point (I believe WAS was a trailer tucked behind Union Station for several years in the 80s during the renovation).

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

Came across a link to an editorial in the Roanoke Times titled "We need more options than cars" favoring returning passenger train service to Roanoke: http://www.roanoke.com/editorials/commentary/wb/230173. Long distance bus to DC area was standing room only?? Anyway, if the extended Regional to Lynchburg is seen as a success, could result in political and public support for extending the service to Lynchburg sooner rather than later.
Anyone know what would likely be the expected travel time from Lynchburg to Roanoke? An hour? 90 minutes? Are the tracks between Lynchburg and Roanoke in good condition or would Virginia (maybe with some federal intercity rail funding) have to put a lot of money into upgrading them for acceptable speed passenger service? Of course, they would to either restore or build a new train station which would probably take years for the studies, EISs, RFPs before work on constructing a new station could be started.

As to the time between Roanoke and Lynchburg, back in "the day' trains typically took about one hour and ten minutes. This from a 1957 Official Guide.

 

[rrdude]

'K, I've been to the O Winston Link Museum in Roanoke, and HIGHLY recommend it to either a photo fan, a rail fan, or an art fan. Good stuff.

The Museum is in the old train station, along with the local CVB. I don't know enuff about the trackage in that area, (and am too lazy to investigate) but if it was feasible, why not "lease" a portion of that station? (or pay the museum staff to act almost as caretakers, open for pax only when trains arr or dpt?) The hotel is X the street, it's right downtown.... but I'm sure there is a good reason NOT to....

(and it looks like the NS shops, and i would guess storage tracks, are nearby)

"Experts" or expert wannabes, please advise............

 

[wayman]

The Museum is in the old train station, along with the local CVB. I don't know enuff about the trackage in that area, (and am too lazy to investigate) but if it was feasible, why not "lease" a portion of that station? (or pay the museum staff to act almost as caretakers, open for pax only when trains arr or dpt?) The hotel is X the street, it's right downtown.... but I'm sure there is a good reason NOT to....

That isn't quite the arrangement in Manassas, but it sounds similar: a railroad museum/visitors center occupies part of the station, and an unstaffed waiting room another part. But if the Link museum occupies the entire building at present (requiring contraction of the museum), this would be a hard arrangement to set up. Sadly, I have never been to the Link museum myself, despite it being "just down the road" (well, 90 minutes) from my parents!!! And it's unlikely I'll have time to get there this trip.

The tracks from Lynchburg to Roanoke are in pretty good shape -- they carried the recent excursion trains to Roanoke for the NRHS fan-trips in November. Rafi got to ride the ROA-LYH section (which was non-revenue) and it seemed pretty good from his trip report (on his blog). NS will, of course, ask for some additional work just because they get a freebie out of it, but there's not much work needed it sounds like.

The big questions would appear to be (1) station facilities, (2) where to turn and park the trainset (not as easy as in Lynchburg, where we have a very convenient wye and especially with the just-built overnight track here!), (3) hiring crew (and they just hired maintenance and cleaning crews in Lynchburg!), (4) working out the schedule (and needed upgrades) with NS, and (5) additional Virginia funding. I'd be shocked if any revenue train was operating here before early 2012, but if the LYH extension (I hope we can come up with a better name than "Lynchburger"!!!) keeps putting up good numbers for its first six months of operations, I won't be surprised if they kick the plans to extend to ROA up to high gear by this summer with a goal of early 2012 for service. Which is well ahead of the original "let the LYH extension run for three years (ie, September 2012), then consider a ROA extension" concept.

A big wild card here is whether the new governor is pro-rail (or, if he's not as pro-rail as Kaine has been, if the numbers persuade him this is a good idea anyway).

 

[Ispolkom]

(I hope we can come up with a better name than "Lynchburger"!!!)

Fast Flying Lynchburger?

 

[Rafi]

Just to add to the good content that's already been offered...

The run time between LYH and RNK was about an hour; most of the running speed was between 60 and 65 MPH when I rode. The only slow point, really, was on the reverse Y into LYH. But just because one anecdotal experience says it's an hour doesn't mean that a daily revenue train will be scheduled for an hour. We can't forget padding for freight congestion and other delays.

Regarding the Link museum. I have it on good authority that a trackside room in that building has been set aside (not at Amtrak's request) as a future waiting room with electric outlets, room for chairs, communications for Quik-Trak, etc. So a station facility does not seem to be an issue here either. Really, it's just up to Virginia to give the OK for NS negotiations, platform restoration in RNK, and looking into the possibility of having a stop in Bedford. As far as I can tell, the Bedford station has since been removed, so there may be some work to do there as well.

Rafi

 

[wayman]

Regarding the Link museum. I have it on good authority that a trackside room in that building has been set aside (not at Amtrak's request) as a future waiting room with electric outlets, room for chairs, communications for Quik-Trak, etc. So a station facility does not seem to be an issue here either. Really, it's just up to Virginia to give the OK for NS negotiations, platform restoration in RNK, and looking into the possibility of having a stop in Bedford. As far as I can tell, the Bedford station has since been removed, so there may be some work to do there as well.

The Bedford station building became a fairly successful restaurant some years back -- at least fifteen years, I think? Within the past year, the station building/restaurant had a fire which destroyed most of the roof, but left enough of the building intact that it sounded like they would repair, rather than tear down, the structure; and it sounded like the restaurant's insurance would cover costs and the restaurant would re-open. But I haven't been following the story closely.

 

[Rafi]

Regarding the Link museum. I have it on good authority that a trackside room in that building has been set aside (not at Amtrak's request) as a future waiting room with electric outlets, room for chairs, communications for Quik-Trak, etc. So a station facility does not seem to be an issue here either. Really, it's just up to Virginia to give the OK for NS negotiations, platform restoration in RNK, and looking into the possibility of having a stop in Bedford. As far as I can tell, the Bedford station has since been removed, so there may be some work to do there as well.

The Bedford station building became a fairly successful restaurant some years back -- at least fifteen years, I think? Within the past year, the station building/restaurant had a fire which destroyed most of the roof, but left enough of the building intact that it sounded like they would repair, rather than tear down, the structure; and it sounded like the restaurant's insurance would cover costs and the restaurant would re-open. But I haven't been following the story closely.

That I didn't know. Well, if the town of Bedford is smart about it, they'll have the restaurant renovation leave (or add) a waiting room as part of the floorplan. Then it would just be a matter of getting the platform up to spec.

Rafi

 

[wayman]

The run time between LYH and RNK was about an hour;

Is RNK going to be the official abbreviation for Roanoke? Was that its designation back in the '70s? (Did Amtrak have standardized three-letter abbreviations back then?)

Does someone maintain a list of "legacy designations" to be consulted in case of service restorations? And is that list consulted in the case of new (never-served-before) stations (like Leavenworth, Washington) just to make sure a new station's designation doesn't conflict with an unused legacy station's, just in case? (Obviously, they check for conflicts with current stations.)

 

[Rafi]

The run time between LYH and RNK was about an hour;

Is RNK going to be the official abbreviation for Roanoke? Was that its designation back in the '70s? (Did Amtrak have standardized three-letter abbreviations back then?)

Does someone maintain a list of "legacy designations" to be consulted in case of service restorations? And is that list consulted in the case of new (never-served-before) stations (like Leavenworth, Washington) just to make sure a new station's designation doesn't conflict with an unused legacy station's, just in case? (Obviously, they check for conflicts with current stations.)

If I had to guess, yes, RNK will be the station code. RNK was the station code when Amtrak had a thruway connection to the town from Clifton Forge (from the Cardinal) a few years back, and RNK still designates Roanoke, VA in Arrow.

Rafi

EDIT: I found the restaurant's website. It looks like they are well into restoration and plan to repoen in February 2010.

 

[Zevzec]

(I hope we can come up with a better name than "Lynchburger"!!!)

Fast Flying Lynchburger?

Nice. Like the Flying Hamburger!

 

[wayman]

EDIT: I found the restaurant's website. It looks like they are well into restoration and plan to repoen in February 2010.

Here's an aerial map of the area.

The station (restaurant) is on the north side of the tracks, surrounded by its parking lot. Presumably the restaurant's land ends at the edge of the lot, so perhaps the land just to the east of the station lot is available? But I think it's unlevel, sloping upwards away from the tracks, so some grading would be necessary if construction happened there.

The three buildings to the south side of the tracks (but north of Depot St) are some sort of agricultural industry, though I'm not sure if the buildings are still in use/industry still in business; they're served by two sidings, one of which lies between the buildings and the double-track main.

Given the success of the restaurant (according to Dad), it's highly unlikely anyone could get the restaurant to part with any station space. They may be equally possessive of their parking lot.

When this was an active station, there was a short covered walkway leading from the station building to a covered platform by the north track. That part of the structure was removed when the railroad sold the building, and a fence was erected. And this wasn't the original site of the building: it was originally a quarter mile away, up a hill from the tracks (built 1891): the "covered walkway" was originally a covered stairwell down the hill to the covered platform -- much like in Paoli today. The entire building was moved to its present location, and at track level, when the line was relocated in 1907. Virginia Railway Depots (Donald R. Traser, Old Dominion Chapter, NRHS) has some nice photos and a brief history. I'll see if I can't scan that in sometime this vacation.

 

[dlagrua]

If you consider that Amtrak is uncle Sam and they get back federal income tax from all Amtrak employees, they are not losing much money.

 

[rrdude]

Regarding the Link museum. I have it on good authority that a trackside room in that building has been set aside (not at Amtrak's request) as a future waiting room with electric outlets, room for chairs, communications for Quik-Trak, etc. So a station facility does not seem to be an issue here either.

That's very good new indeed, as it seems that adequate station facilities often delay, or detract from what otherwise would/could generate very impressive numbers.

I'm probably wrong more often than right, but something about having Roanoke as an end-point city, vs. Lynchburg tells me that Amtrak and the State of Virginia have "winner" written all over it... If they do it right............

 

[MattW]

One issue that's very minor is just what exactly to call a train that goes all the way to Roanoke? Is it still a Northeast Regional? Because if Amtrak's not careful, they'll have a "Northeast Regional" going all the way to LAX!

Seriously now, it looks like turning facilities in RNK aren't that bad judging from Google Maps (what would we do without it?). There seems to be an in-service WYE track SE of the Station that abuts the Roanoke shops. Of course, such a move would require tying up the main tracks for a while which I'm not sure NS would be thrilled about. Another solution is to shove the Amcans somewhere, then turn the P42 (only 1 right?) on the Roanoke shop's turntable then have to run around the train and couple back up. Another is to use a Cabbage or Metroliner cab car or one of those AEM-7 cab cars once the new electrics arrive and just push-pull the train.

[EDIT]: Another bonus of RNK is appears to already have a platform!

http://railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=283215&nseq=31

 

[Rafi]

One issue that's very minor is just what exactly to call a train that goes all the way to Roanoke? Is it still a Northeast Regional? Because if Amtrak's not careful, they'll have a "Northeast Regional" going all the way to LAX! Seriously now, it looks like turning facilities in RNK aren't that bad judging from Google Maps (what would we do without it?). There seems to be an in-service WYE track SE of the Station that abuts the Roanoke shops. Of course, such a move would require tying up the main tracks for a while which I'm not sure NS would be thrilled about. Another solution is to shove the Amcans somewhere, then turn the P42 (only 1 right?) on the Roanoke shop's turntable then have to run around the train and couple back up. Another is to use a Cabbage or Metroliner cab car or one of those AEM-7 cab cars once the new electrics arrive and just push-pull the train.

[EDIT]: Another bonus of RNK is appears to already have a platform!

http://railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=283215&nseq=31

Ah, the naming dilemma. I'm still in favor of something like the "Old Dominion" or "Hilltopper," to be honest. But unfortunately, politics get involved in things like this (hence "Lynchburger" was no joke) and every town wants the darned thing named after them specifically; that's why we've got Northeast Regional. I think Amtrak can get away with taking the NE Regional name to Roanoke, but no further. West of that, it becomes a joke (albeit a fantastic AGR redemption). As I said before, I think we'll get a corridor name for this route once we have multiple daily frequencies, similar to the Cascades.

The Y southeast of the station is the logical place to turn the train. Figuring out where to store the train overnight, whether to Y, or to engine rotate, or to cab car the service is all part of negotiations with NS, so it's all very much just speculation on our part right now.

The platform at Roanoke can work (and did work on the excursions this past November), but there is no station-side platform, which I'm guessing will be required. It's just an island platform inbetween tracks. Remember, the N&W Station (now the Link Museum) used to have a catwalk across the tracks with stairs leading down to the island platform. That catwalk is now long gone, and the train may require a platform station-side. Alternatively, an escalator and elevator could be added to the Hotel Roanoke bridge, which crosses the track platform, but access to that bridge is a good distance from the Link Museum.

Anyway, I digress. Speculation is dangerous!

Rafi

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

It looks like the tracks are as good as they ever were.

It was said the recent test trip took about one hour.

I had noted that in 1957 it took about one hour 10 minutes. But that usually included a stop at Bedford, so that sounds about the same.

I wish a lot of the track in the rest of the country had held together as well as this.

The old train names don't seem very helpful. They were: The Pelican, the Birmingham Special, The Tennessean, The Pocahontas, The Powhatan Arrow and the Cavalier.

Maybe the Tennessean, maybe some day.

 

[Big Iron]

One issue that's very minor is just what exactly to call a train that goes all the way to Roanoke? Is it still a Northeast Regional? Because if Amtrak's not careful, they'll have a "Northeast Regional" going all the way to LAX! Seriously now, it looks like turning facilities in RNK aren't that bad judging from Google Maps (what would we do without it?). There seems to be an in-service WYE track SE of the Station that abuts the Roanoke shops. Of course, such a move would require tying up the main tracks for a while which I'm not sure NS would be thrilled about. Another solution is to shove the Amcans somewhere, then turn the P42 (only 1 right?) on the Roanoke shop's turntable then have to run around the train and couple back up. Another is to use a Cabbage or Metroliner cab car or one of those AEM-7 cab cars once the new electrics arrive and just push-pull the train.

[EDIT]: Another bonus of RNK is appears to already have a platform!

http://railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=283215&nseq=31

Ah, the naming dilemma. I'm still in favor of something like the "Old Dominion" or "Hilltopper," to be honest. But unfortunately, politics get involved in things like this (hence "Lynchburger" was no joke) and every town wants the darned thing named after them specifically; that's why we've got Northeast Regional. I think Amtrak can get away with taking the NE Regional name to Roanoke, but no further. West of that, it becomes a joke (albeit a fantastic AGR redemption). As I said before, I think we'll get a corridor name for this route once we have multiple daily frequencies, similar to the Cascades.

The Y southeast of the station is the logical place to turn the train. Figuring out where to store the train overnight, whether to Y, or to engine rotate, or to cab car the service is all part of negotiations with NS, so it's all very much just speculation on our part right now.

The platform at Roanoke can work (and did work on the excursions this past November), but there is no station-side platform, which I'm guessing will be required. It's just an island platform inbetween tracks. Remember, the N&W Station (now the Link Museum) used to have a catwalk across the tracks with stairs leading down to the island platform. That catwalk is now long gone, and the train may require a platform station-side. Alternatively, an escalator and elevator could be added to the Hotel Roanoke bridge, which crosses the track platform, but access to that bridge is a good distance from the Link Museum.

Anyway, I digress. Speculation is dangerous!

Rafi

I hope we get the opportunity to have a naming contest similar to the new(ish) Missouri service. Illinois named a new train The Saluki in deference to Southern Ill Univ. "The Hokie" would be appropriate given the fair number of Va Tech students that would use the service. HokieNav, what say you?

 

[Amtrak839]

I hope we get the opportunity to have a naming contest similar to the new(ish) Missouri service. Illinois named a new train The Saluki in deference to Southern Ill Univ. "The Hokie" would be appropriate given the fair number of Va Tech students that would use the service. HokieNav, what say you?

The Cavalier would make more sense IMHO. The train stops in Charlottesville, home of UVA, but doesn't go through Blacksburg.

 

[Ryan]

"The Hokie" would be appropriate given the fair number of Va Tech students that would use the service. HokieNav, what say you?

I was itching do make that suggestion when the naming question came up. I think that the wahoo's up the track a bit might take issue with that, but maybe they should try winning the Commonwealth Cup every once in a while.
More realistically, I'm with Rafi - the Old Dominion or Hilltopper would get my vote.

 

[The Metropolitan]

Probably boring and uninventive, but something tells me it would get named the Virginian.

I question that they'd want to name their "new" train Old anything, to avoid bad press.

Likewise for the Hokie - all it needs to do is be delayed twice in a week, and it'll be the Hokey Pokey from then on.

The Hilltopper too readily brings to mind the former train of the same name, which, while at least reasonably used, brings "pork" too readily to mind.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

I hope we get the opportunity to have a naming contest similar to the new(ish) Missouri service. Illinois named a new train The Saluki in deference to Southern Ill Univ. "The Hokie" would be appropriate given the fair number of Va Tech students that would use the service. HokieNav, what say you?

The Cavalier would make more sense IMHO. The train stops in Charlottesville, home of UVA, but doesn't go through Blacksburg.

Yes, I guess Cavalier would be the most appropriate of all the old names. Slight problem: the Cavalier (as well as the Powhatan Arrow and Pocahontas) went primarily from Cincinnati to Norfolk.

The trains which came from New York and Washington (and to points south of Bristol) had such names as Birmingham Special, Pelican and Tennessean. None of those would work unless it is extended to Bristol someday. It could then be called the Tennessean. Bristol is a city partly in Virginia and partly in Tennessee.

But what difference does it make for the exact route not to completely match the name after all these years? "Cavalier" has a nice sound to it and my vote is for it to be revived.

 

[MattW]

If you wanted, you could hearken back to Virginia's maritime history and call it "Virginia Clipper." Clipper ships were very fast, and the train appears to be competitive with the Driving time if Google Maps is to be believed.