Before it was a PPC

[MrFSS]

I collect old rail related post cards. Came across this one in a store yesterday.

Is this what the PPC was before it became a PPC?

Anyone know how many of these there were. I think there are only 5 left as PPCs.

 

[MikeM]

I collect old rail related post cards. Came across this one in a store yesterday.
Is this what the PPC was before it became a PPC?

Anyone know how many of these there were. I think there are only 5 left as PPCs.

That's it, they were the observation cars on the El Capitan I believe. I think there were six original, Amtrak kept five and one is in private ownership somewhere but not sure where. Really nice picture and good condition too!

 

[GG-1]

I collect old rail related post cards. Came across this one in a store yesterday.
Is this what the PPC was before it became a PPC?

Aloha

I dont think so my picture of the PPC has 4 windows on lower level. Somehow I doubt that would be a mod. Unless each of the 5 left have those differences.

Just checked a shot from the LA Gathering, that PPC has 4 lower windows. So, could be.

Eric

 

[amtrakwolverine]

if only amtrak could have postcards like that.

 

[MikefromCrete]

The PPC's were originally the Santa Fe Hi-Level Lounge cars used on the El Capitan. There were also hi-level chair cars and dinning cars, which were also used by Amtrak for a while, but ultimately retired.

Some of the coaches were used on the Heartland Flyer for a while. I believe quite a few of these cars still exist at an equipment dealer in the Illinois suburbs of St. Louis. I imagine they could be refurbished and used on state-supported local services for a fraction of the cost of new cars.

 

[Tony]

Is the postcard using even a real photograph? It seem a bit too perfect to me, to be a photograph.

 

[amtrakwolverine]

looks more like a painting then a picture.

 

[MrFSS]

looks more like a painting then a picture.

It says it is a Kodachrome reproduction. The original looks very much like a photo. I think it is a photo-shoot setup, though. Everyone is too perfect in the way they are posed. Note also the background behind and above the car. Looks like the Chicago skyline near the CUS tracks to me.

People really dressed that way to ride trains in those days, though.

 

[librarian]

I have a copy of the "Railway Progress" for August 1956, which has an article titled, "Hi-Level Strategy."

It states that "last month the Atchison, Topeka, and Santa Fe has introduced ... on the road's famed 'El Capitan' an entirely new consist of 'hi-level' equipment."

It continues that the new consist includes coaches, diners, and lounges; neither coach nor dome, but a two-level train.

The article says that the new cars weighs 79 tons each, which holds down the weight-per-seat to 2,300 pounds.

"To date, Santa Fe has ordered 47 of the new cars [from Budd Company] at a cost of $ 13,000,000.

 

[MikeM]

I was digging around a little while ago and came upon this old forum post on former ATSF high level cars. About half way down there's a picture of one of the high level lounges which ended up in Madison IL at what was Illinois Transit. Does anyone know what ever happened to these cars, are they still there, and are they in any sort of decent condition? I seem to recall that Illinois Transit went out of business and was taken over by some other company, but don't know the specifics. Would love to know more.

http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/lofiversio...php/t27567.html

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

My various old equipment books show conclusively that all six of the Hi Level Lounge cars built for the El Capitan in 1956 were sold to Amtrak in 1971.

Present use of those not needed on CS, I personally do not know but I suspect some do. I think that question has been answered here before.

Brochures advertising specific trains normally looked just like the type of photography shown on the postcard under discussion. They were beautiful beyond measure and Santa Fe certainly printed more than it's share with various Chief trains as well as the El Capitan.

 

[zephyr17]

My various old equipment books show conclusively that all six of the Hi Level Lounge cars built for the El Capitan in 1956 were sold to Amtrak in 1971.
Present use of those not needed on CS, I personally do not know but I suspect some do. I think that question has been answered here before.

Brochures advertising specific trains normally looked just like the type of photography shown on the postcard under discussion. They were beautiful beyond measure and Santa Fe certainly printed more than it's share with various Chief trains as well as the El Capitan.

Amtrak sold one of them, not long after they started the PPC service, but before the interiors were rebuilt into the current PPC configuration. My guess is they sold it because they only needed 5 for service on the Starlight (4 on the road, 1 protection).

After Amtrak got hold of them, they redid the interiors at least once before, so the PPC rebuild wasn't the one that took them out of the AT&SF "Top of the Cap" configuration. They were running on the Sunset as straight lounges (instead of the Superliner Sightseers) in the early 1980s.

When they first introduced them as PPCs, they were still in the Amtrak lounge configuration. They strung white Christmas lights up in them to make them look more festive.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

I fondly remember one of these beauties being our Lounge on an eastbound Sunset back in the early 90s. Compared to the Sightseers, they are built heavy and solid and the panel rivet heads were clearly visible on the walls. And they rode firmly and solidly as well compared with the rest of the consist. Now I do not recall if Amtrak put TVs on them like they did with the Sightseers.

 

[MikeM]

My various old equipment books show conclusively that all six of the Hi Level Lounge cars built for the El Capitan in 1956 were sold to Amtrak in 1971.
Amtrak sold one of them, not long after they started the PPC service, but before the interiors were rebuilt into the current PPC configuration. My guess is they sold it because they only needed 5 for service on the Starlight (4 on the road, 1 protection).

The picture of the car that was in the discussion link that I'd posted a few back shows the one they sold, it had the pacific parlor car sticker on it by the door, and badly faded paint. Pretty depressing compared to the picture in MrFSS's post card

 

[PetalumaLoco]

... which holds down the weight-per-seat to 2,300 pounds.

We need that today for our average overweight American!

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

... which holds down the weight-per-seat to 2,300 pounds.

We need that today for our average overweight American!

:lol: :lol: now. let's not get too personal!! :lol: :lol:

 

[D T Nelson]

looks more like a painting then a picture.

... Note also the background behind and above the car. Looks like the Chicago skyline near the CUS tracks to me. ...

I'm not saying it's not the Chicago skyline, but the Santa Fe trains ran out of Dearborn Street Station.

 

[MrFSS]

looks more like a painting then a picture.

... Note also the background behind and above the car. Looks like the Chicago skyline near the CUS tracks to me. ...

I'm not saying it's not the Chicago skyline, but the Santa Fe trains ran out of Dearborn Street Station.

You're right. Been too long since I watched them from Roosevelt Road back in the 50's!

 

[MikefromCrete]

It was probably the old Santa Fe coach yard near Chicago's Chinatown.

 

[Amtrak839]

I fondly remember one of these beauties being our Lounge on an eastbound Sunset back in the early 90s. Compared to the Sightseers, they are built heavy and solid and the panel rivet heads were clearly visible on the walls. And they rode firmly and solidly as well compared with the rest of the consist. Now I do not recall if Amtrak put TVs on them like they did with the Sightseers.

I think they even ran on the Sunset into the mid-90s. I know the train 2 that wrecked at Big Bayou Canot in '93 had #39973 in the consist.

 

[cpamtfan]

I have a funny shot of it from early Amtrak/1970s-Going With the Flow. I'll post it tommorow.

 

[Tony]

It says it is a Kodachrome reproduction.

I took that to mean that the post card itself was manufactured, or reproduced, using a Kodachrome process. Otherwise, IMHO, it would have said something more typical like "from Kodachrome original".

 

[MrFSS]

It says it is a Kodachrome reproduction.

I took that to mean that the post card itself was manufactured, or reproduced, using a Kodachrome process. Otherwise, IMHO, it would have said something more typical like "from Kodachrome original".

I see what you are saying, Tony. But, I have the original and it really looks like a photograph, not a drawing. Probably taken with slide film and them printed from that.

 

[Tony]

I see what you are saying, Tony. But, I have the original and it really looks like a photograph, not a drawing. Probably taken with slide film and them printed from that.

If you look really closely at the faces (with possibly a magnifying glass?), are there any facial details beyond the basic eyes, mouth, and nose? Possibly it is just the digital copy posted, but I see none. If true, it is that, which is hinting to me that the original is a painting and not a photograph.

Years before there was computer digital editing of photographs, companies would commission a very detailed and realistic painting for publicity "shots", but with the flexibility of ignoring flaws, choosing backgrounds, etc.

 

[MrFSS]

I see what you are saying, Tony. But, I have the original and it really looks like a photograph, not a drawing. Probably taken with slide film and them printed from that.

If you look really closely at the faces (with possibly a magnifying glass?), are there any facial details beyond the basic eyes, mouth, and nose? Possibly it is just the digital copy posted, but I see none. If true, it is that, which is hinting to me that the original is a painting and not a photograph.

Years before there was computer digital editing of photographs, companies would commission a very detailed and realistic painting for publicity "shots", but with the flexibility of ignoring flaws, choosing backgrounds, etc.

I scanned it at 1200dpi and then cropped out a section. Here is the result.

All you can really see is the printing process.

Appreciate your thoughts.