Amtrak, Siemens it is for 70 new electrics

[Dutchrailnut]

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/amtrak-awards-466-million-contract-for-70-new-electric-locomotives-106156093.html

Improved performance and reliability for Northeast passenger rail services

SACRAMENTO, Calif., Oct. 28 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- As part of a comprehensive plan to modernize and expand its fleet of equipment, Amtrak is buying 70 new electric locomotives to provide improved performance and reliability for its Northeast intercity passenger rail services. The six-year, $466 million contract was awarded to Siemens and will create 250 jobs primarily at a facility in Sacramento, California, but also at plants in Norwood, Ohio and Alpharetta, Georgia.
(Photo: http://photos.prnewswire.com/prnh/20101028/DC91282)

(Photo: http://www.newscom.com/cgi-bin/prnh/20101028/DC91282)

"Amtrak is a critical transportation provider in the Northeast and modern locomotives are essential to meet the service reliability expectations of our passengers and for us to handle the growing ridership demand in the coming years," said President and CEO Joseph Boardman.

etc etc etc.

 

[afigg]

Busy day for passenger rail news! Close to $2.5 billion of FY10 HSIPR awards announced. Then Amtrak announces the long awaited (delayed?) $466 million order for 70 electric locomotives - which are not ALP-46As.

Ok, so what is known about the Siemens ACS-64s? Will Amtrak be able to keep the AEM-7 DCs and ACs running until the new locomotives are available in quantity?

 

[bretton88]

What is known: Amtrak is buying proven technology for once. These trains are Siemans Eurosprinters that are FRA compliant. There are over 1000 of these worldwide so it's proven technology. So hopefully there won't be that many issues when they come online.

Amtrak plans to roll these out so that it replaces the entire electric fleet. First the AEM-7s then the HHP's after that. If I read another article right, there are 65 engines and Amtrak is ordering 70, so some service expansion is possible.

 

[Ryan]

Sweet - hopefully MARC will jump on the order and replace their AEM and HHP fleet as well.

That livery looks absolutely hideous on that locomotive.

 

[MattW]

Is the locomotive going to be double or single ended? Pic looks single, but based on other Eurosprinter pictures, it could be the angle, and the double pantographs might back the double-ended argument.

I'll admit, I was pulling for the ALP-46a or ALP45DP, but at least they're not completely reinventing the wheel it seems. Two years and a few months isn't bad to go from announcement to wheels turning, assuming they stay on schedule.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

How are they paying for it?7

 

[Acela150]

Good call GML.. I thought your first post was going to be OMG THEY'RE GETTING RID OF THE HHP'S!!! :lol:

But with the history of the HHP's I'm not shocked that the ALP-46A's were not the choice of Amtrak. Although the 46A's are still coming off the production line they still have not and repeat NOT proven themselves worthy like the original models did/have. But Siemens has proven themselves capable of a functioning AC unit with the ICE trains. For those of us who were lucky to see it and maybe even ride it in 1993, including see it myself at the age of 2, you would see that Siemens has produced a well made product. ICE's run constantly and perform! Hopefully this ACS-64 will do what the ICE's have done in Germany.

As for your question Matt, Amtrak will only take Double Ended Electric units. Not only was it a part of the RFP, but all of the experimental units and units after have been double ended.

Steve

 

[Devil's Advocate]

So Amtrak just purchased another three decades of slower than average trains then? :lol:

 

[Dutchrailnut]

What is known: Amtrak is buying proven technology for once. These trains are Siemans Eurosprinters that are FRA compliant. There are over 1000 of these worldwide so it's proven technology. So hopefully there won't be that many issues when they come online.

Amtrak plans to roll these out so that it replaces the entire electric fleet. First the AEM-7s then the HHP's after that. If I read another article right, there are 65 engines and Amtrak is ordering 70, so some service expansion is possible.

The Amtrak locomotive is actually based on VECTRON, not Euro Sprinter.

compare

http://www.newscom.com/cgi-bin/pub/thumb/wmark/prnphotos098925?doc=PRN/prnphotos/docs/098/925&size=512&logo=logo

 

[henryj]

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/amtrak-awards-466-million-contract-for-70-new-electric-locomotives-106156093.html

Improved performance and reliability for Northeast passenger rail services

For the 'smart' guys on here......why are they buying locomotives that only go 125mph when the NEC is supposed to be good for 150mph???????????

Boardman explained the first Amtrak Cities Sprinter ACS-64 electric locomotive is to be delivered in February 2013 and will operate at speeds up to 125 mph (201 kph) on the Northeast Corridor from Washington, D.C. to Boston and up to 110 mph (177 kph) on the Keystone Corridor from Philadelphia to Harrisburg, Pa. They will replace locomotives in service between 20 and 30 years with average mileage of 3.5 million miles traveled.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

For the 'smart' guys on here......why are they buying locomotives that only go 125mph when the NEC is supposed to be good for 150mph???????????

If they moved everything to Acela speed they'd no longer be able to charge a premium for our pea shooter wannabe version of a bullet train.

 

[MattW]

And as I understand it, you need equipment that meets stricter collision standards to go faster than 125. That's why the Acela has those huge beams you can see between cars and why it'll never be able to serve low-level platforms without some sort of external lift or ramp. Now if all the Amtrak-served platforms were high-level, you might could pull it off.

 

[transit54]

If they moved everything to Acela speed they'd no longer be able to charge a premium for our pea shooter wannabe version of a bullet train.

Even if they were able to do 150, the Acela would still be faster as a result of being able to do faster speeds through curves with its tilting technology, and also as a function of being a limited stop train.

I'd have to guess there's two reasons for the 125 restriction:

1) Existing equipment is only certified for 125 MPH, if that (I believe viewliners are 110, IIRC).

2) There would be relatively little savings. There's probably 14-16 miles of 150 MPH track on the NEC. How much time savings will be generated by going 25 MPH faster through those sections?

The additional costs to achieve 150 MPH probably just aren't worth the added performance benefit, given the above.

 

[gswager]

And also the distance between two stations. Acela is designed for express with fewer stops.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Even if they were able to do 150, the Acela would still be faster as a result of being able to do faster speeds through curves with its tilting technology, and also as a function of being a limited stop train. I'd have to guess there's two reasons for the 125 restriction:

1) Existing equipment is only certified for 125 MPH, if that (I believe viewliners are 110, IIRC).

2) There would be relatively little savings. There's probably 14-16 miles of 150 MPH track on the NEC. How much time savings will be generated by going 25 MPH faster through those sections?

The additional costs to achieve 150 MPH probably just aren't worth the added performance benefit, given the above.

Technically the Acela trains would be slightly faster, but if they still ran limited stop conventional trains with upgraded interiors the noticeable performance difference could be minimal to your average passenger. Spending the Acela money on a faster ROW would have done more to improve actual service than the marketing gimmick we currently have. Then when the next order came around we wouldn't be stuck with this silly chicken-and-egg conundrum anymore. At this point since most of the hardware we'll be using for the next thirty years won't be able to go above 125MPH I would expect the NEC to remain largely as it exists now without any major improvements until most of us are long past our train riding days.

 

[Shanghai]

I'm glad to see they will be manufactured in the US.

 

[acelafan]

At this point since most of the hardware we'll be using for the next thirty years won't be able to go above 125MPH I would expect the NEC to remain largely as it exists now without any major improvements until most of us are long past our train riding days.

I think you are right - I don't expect to see the current NEC change significantly in the next 30-40 years. Even if they spent all the billions needed to bring the NEC up to a state of good repair (new cat, new bridges, additional track) the time improvements are going to be minimal...not to mention you have multiple agencies in charge of the NEC tracks Amtrak uses. It's not like the state of good repair is going to revolutionize the NEC...the curvy ROW and tunnel bottlenecks are going to be there for a looooong time. A next generation NEC needs to be constructed to truly make long stretches of 150 MPH+ worthwhile and then the existing NEC could serve local, commuter, and regional train service. But what politician is going to support a 100-150 billion dollar project in this budget climate, despite it being very likely to have a good return on investment for future economic growth? And eminent domain to widen tracks just isn't practical on the existing ROW in large chunks of the NEC. So, 125 MPH is just fine and dandy for now.

 

[GaSteve]

At this point since most of the hardware we'll be using for the next thirty years won't be able to go above 125MPH I would expect the NEC to remain largely as it exists now without any major improvements until most of us are long past our train riding days.

I think you are right - I don't expect to see the current NEC change significantly in the next 30-40 years. Even if they spent all the billions needed to bring the NEC up to a state of good repair (new cat, new bridges, additional track) the time improvements are going to be minimal...not to mention you have multiple agencies in charge of the NEC tracks Amtrak uses. It's not like the state of good repair is going to revolutionize the NEC...the curvy ROW and tunnel bottlenecks are going to be there for a looooong time. A next generation NEC needs to be constructed to truly make long stretches of 150 MPH+ worthwhile and then the existing NEC could serve local, commuter, and regional train service. But what politician is going to support a 100-150 billion dollar project in this budget climate, despite it being very likely to have a good return on investment for future economic growth? And eminent domain to widen tracks just isn't practical on the existing ROW in large chunks of the NEC. So, 125 MPH is just fine and dandy for now.

"you have multiple agencies in charge of the NEC tracks Amtrak uses" I believe Amtrak is the owner of all the infrastructure and the other carriers are tenants.

 

[Guest]

Can't Regionals go 135?

 

[jis]

Can't Regionals go 135?

Not legally.

 

[Ryan]

At this point since most of the hardware we'll be using for the next thirty years won't be able to go above 125MPH I would expect the NEC to remain largely as it exists now without any major improvements until most of us are long past our train riding days.

I think you are right - I don't expect to see the current NEC change significantly in the next 30-40 years. Even if they spent all the billions needed to bring the NEC up to a state of good repair (new cat, new bridges, additional track) the time improvements are going to be minimal...not to mention you have multiple agencies in charge of the NEC tracks Amtrak uses. It's not like the state of good repair is going to revolutionize the NEC...the curvy ROW and tunnel bottlenecks are going to be there for a looooong time. A next generation NEC needs to be constructed to truly make long stretches of 150 MPH+ worthwhile and then the existing NEC could serve local, commuter, and regional train service. But what politician is going to support a 100-150 billion dollar project in this budget climate, despite it being very likely to have a good return on investment for future economic growth? And eminent domain to widen tracks just isn't practical on the existing ROW in large chunks of the NEC. So, 125 MPH is just fine and dandy for now.

"you have multiple agencies in charge of the NEC tracks Amtrak uses" I believe Amtrak is the owner of all the infrastructure and the other carriers are tenants.

Close, Amtrak doesn't own the section from New Rochelle to New Haven.

 

[NE933]

I think you are right - I don't expect to see the current NEC change significantly in the next 30-40 years. Even if they spent all the billions needed to bring the NEC up to a state of good repair (new cat, new bridges, additional track) the time improvements are going to be minimal...the curvy ROW and tunnel bottlenecks are going to be there for a looooong time. A next generation NEC needs to be constructed to truly make long stretches of 150 MPH+ worthwhile

Yes, but it was Acela's precursors, namely the X2000, that delivered sustained 150mph running. No one ever mentioned the need for new constant tension catenary as a deal-breaker requirement for 150mph; after all, both X2000 and ICE (and let's throw in the original Metroliner cars) hit above that testing through Princeton Jct. Then the constant catenary issue crawled out like a plague of worms, out of nowhere.

I also believe that until the new rolling stock arrives more effort can be spent on Acela's now little talked about skeleton in the closet. I can't believe, even with it's greater weight, that the truck hunting and wheel cracking can't ever ever ever ever.....('til we all die) ever be better remedied. Of course, some part of this problem has its origins in the way priorities were arranged back in 1998 or so. Millions spent on a new logo and paint scheme, revamped uniforms, expensive ad campaigns, consultants who were top of their game in marketing but knew nothing about rail operations, office artwork -- including paintings, calendars, and holographic sculptures, and even a gala party with fireworks. When I went to school, you celebrate like that after the project is finished and has proved itself, not before. By wasting time squabbling about what color the drapes should be and where project directors should put their desks, instead of using that money to dive into the hard dirty work of replacing catenary and track, and fixing the dratted wobbly and cracking wheels, we have a train fleet that now operates well but forever forsaken the original envisioned trip times of NY - Bos 3 hours, NY - DC 2 and half. There were other demons at work, namely the lovely Richardson 4 extra inches in width. But blame rests rightfully so not only on Richardson but the construction engineers who should have sounded an immediate, zombie awakening alarm that such an alteration changes the extent Acela's most important keynote investment - the tilting - can be used, and thus harms the speed limits. That everyone was OK with adding 4 inches of width on ANY TRAIN!!!!, EVEN IF IT WERE NOT TILTING, earns them the penalty of being spayed and neutered on the grounds of endangering society because of stupidity! Clearance concerns, especially on MetroNorth, is a century plus old hair puller; it wasn't new now and it wasn't knew then.

OK, so now is a chance at redemption. There are volumes of experience to teach those who will decide and build these locomotives as well as the yet to be designed Acela II. Let's not frock it up. That Amtrak choose Siemens I think is a very good sign. My comments about Joe Boardman in the past have been harsh, and I shall gladdly eat my words with ketchup and mustard. My only beef is that he ought to have done this sooner and perhaps with more communication with the public.

I also desire for us to still be healthily around when Amtrak has significantly recovered.

Happy Halloween to you all. (8-o

 

[eagle628]

At this point since most of the hardware we'll be using for the next thirty years won't be able to go above 125MPH I would expect the NEC to remain largely as it exists now without any major improvements until most of us are long past our train riding days.

I think you are right - I don't expect to see the current NEC change significantly in the next 30-40 years. Even if they spent all the billions needed to bring the NEC up to a state of good repair (new cat, new bridges, additional track) the time improvements are going to be minimal...not to mention you have multiple agencies in charge of the NEC tracks Amtrak uses. It's not like the state of good repair is going to revolutionize the NEC...the curvy ROW and tunnel bottlenecks are going to be there for a looooong time. A next generation NEC needs to be constructed to truly make long stretches of 150 MPH+ worthwhile and then the existing NEC could serve local, commuter, and regional train service. But what politician is going to support a 100-150 billion dollar project in this budget climate, despite it being very likely to have a good return on investment for future economic growth? And eminent domain to widen tracks just isn't practical on the existing ROW in large chunks of the NEC. So, 125 MPH is just fine and dandy for now.

"you have multiple agencies in charge of the NEC tracks Amtrak uses" I believe Amtrak is the owner of all the infrastructure and the other carriers are tenants.

No, state of Massachusetts owns the track in Mass, Amtrak maintains and operates it, and Metro-North owns and operates the track between New Haven and wherever the lines to Penn Station and Grand Central split. Amtrak owns everything else (except Virginia), plus the Keystone route and the New Haven-Springfield route.

 

[NE933]

Can't Regionals go 135?

Not legally.

Jis, what would it take if Amtrak pressed or lobbied the FRA to change the speed limit tier from the present 125 to 130, just 5mph more? Everyone saves on paperwork and extra certifications. After all, how was the number '125(mph)' picked? A lottery? Or sound physics vaccinated against political red tape?

 

[VT Hokie]

Yes, but it was Acela's precursors, namely the X2000, that delivered sustained 150mph running. No one ever mentioned the need for new constant tension catenary as a deal-breaker requirement for 150mph; after all, both X2000 and ICE (and let's throw in the original Metroliner cars) hit above that testing through Princeton Jct. Then the constant catenary issue crawled out like a plague of worms, out of nowhere.

You're forgetting that the X2000 and ICE were both in fact restricted to 135 mph in revenue service, just as Acela is under the variable tension wires. It was only on non-revenue test runs that they exceeded 135.

However, the real difference was the X-2000's much better curve handling ability!

Regarding the new locomotives, I seem to recall from Amtrak's RFP that the spec called for the locos to be rated for 135 mph, even though current top speed is 125. And remember also that Amtrak has also been working on preliminary specs for a next-gen Acela trainset, and claims it wants at least 180 mph capability there!