Amtrak, Siemens it is for 70 new electrics

[roomette]

 

[Dutchrailnut]

Per FRA regulation any non- high speed equipment (tier I) is restricted to 125 mph.

anything over 125 mph has to conform to tier II regulations.

including crash managment pads crumple zones , non occupied units at both ends of train etc etc etc etc.

 

[Dutchrailnut]

I'm glad to see they will be manufactured in the US.

wrong they will be slapped together by otherwise unemployables in fly by night assembly plants in USA from kits manufactured in Europe.

 

[Nexis4Jersey]

I think Amtrak needs to expand the Electrical Network , including new corridors like the Downstate Delaware line , Lackawanna / Binghamton line , Downeaster line, Virgina network , Lehigh and Empire service. Those Future Corridors will be used by alot and Electrification best suits them. How come Amtrak Didn't replace Northeast Regional with an EMU Train set?

 

[Eric S]

I think Amtrak needs to expand the Electrical Network , including new corridors like the Downstate Delaware line , Lackawanna / Binghamton line , Downeaster line, Virgina network , Lehigh and Empire service. Those Future Corridors will be used by alot and Electrification best suits them. How come Amtrak Didn't replace Northeast Regional with an EMU Train set?

How about you work to start up rail service on some of those lines currently not in service first, then once it is established and if it proves successful move on to electrification.

As to replacement of "Northeast Regional with an EMU Train set" - I would suggest reading Amtrak's fleet replacement strategy they produced in the last year or so. It details what equipment Amtrak hopes to replace and in what order, all contingent upon what funding is available.

 

[Ryan]

I'm glad to see they will be manufactured in the US.

wrong they will be slapped together by otherwise unemployables in fly by night assembly plants in USA from kits manufactured in Europe.

And those that don't even have the skills to slap then together will get to drive them when they find their way into commuter service.

 

[Dutchrailnut]

I'm glad to see they will be manufactured in the US.

wrong they will be slapped together by otherwise unemployables in fly by night assembly plants in USA from kits manufactured in Europe.

And those that don't even have the skills to slap then together will get to drive them when they find their way into commuter service.

right ?

 

[Nexis4Jersey]

I think Amtrak needs to expand the Electrical Network , including new corridors like the Downstate Delaware line , Lackawanna / Binghamton line , Downeaster line, Virgina network , Lehigh and Empire service. Those Future Corridors will be used by alot and Electrification best suits them. How come Amtrak Didn't replace Northeast Regional with an EMU Train set?

How about you work to start up rail service on some of those lines currently not in service first, then once it is established and if it proves successful move on to electrification.

As to replacement of "Northeast Regional with an EMU Train set" - I would suggest reading Amtrak's fleet replacement strategy they produced in the last year or so. It details what equipment Amtrak hopes to replace and in what order, all contingent upon what funding is available.

Most of those corridors will or have Passenger services the whole or dense parts of the line. The Downeaster already has that , and it looks like the Commuter line might be extended into NH further up the Downeaster line. The Lackawanna corridor will have commuter rail service and intercity Amtrak later on. Half of that Corridor is electrified. The Downstate Delaware Corridor looks like it will fellow the first but thats to early to tell. The Lehigh Corridor will be like the Keystone corridor , it will comprise of the Philpsburg extension of the RVL , Restored Septa Bethlehem line , and Restored Reading line , that is in the long term Penndot intercity corridor plans. The Virgina network is expanding Commuter Rail service to Culpepper and Haymarket , and building other lines. But All Amtrak Regional lines should be Electric , thats just my opinion. The $$$ for this can come form Private investors which Amtrak should allow.... Can i have the link to the Amtrak details?

 

[Eric S]

But All Amtrak Regional lines should be Electric , thats just my opinion. The $$$ for this can come form Private investors which Amtrak should allow.... Can i have the link to the Amtrak details?

I highly doubt Amtrak is turning down private investment, but I cannot imagine such private dollars are knocking on Amtrak's door, looking to invest in money-losing propositions.

As far as the Amtrak fleet strategy, here you go: http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/BlobServer?blobcol=urldata&blobtable=MungoBlobs&blobkey=id&blobwhere=1249205419477&blobheader=application%2Fpdf&blobheadername1=Content-disposition&blobheadervalue1=attachment;filename=Amtrak_FleetStrategyPlan.pdf

 

[transit54]

How come Amtrak Didn't replace Northeast Regional with an EMU Train set?

I'd have to speculate that another reason would be the interchangeability of equipment. There are a number of services that will need to be transitioned from electric to diesel at some points in the routes and aren't going to be covered by electrification any time soon. For instance, the Vermonter and the Pennsylvanian, or any of the east coast LD trains that originate out of NYP. Amtrak still has to haul these trains, so I doubt it would make sense to have EMUs, electric locomotives, and standard coaches, when you really only need the last two. I'm not sure what advantage EMUs would give Amtrak.

 

[Trogdor]

Another problem with EMUs is that, from what I understand, they would be subject to FRA regulations that apply to locomotives, including more frequent inspection requirements, perhaps higher buff strength requiremments, higher maintenance costs, etc. Why run six locomotives when one will do?

 

[jis]

Jis, what would it take if Amtrak pressed or lobbied the FRA to change the speed limit tier from the present 125 to 130, just 5mph more? Everyone saves on paperwork and extra certifications. After all, how was the number '125(mph)' picked? A lottery? Or sound physics vaccinated against political red tape?

Actually 125mph as the dividing line between normal requirements and high speed requirements is pretty universal around the world. So FRA is not way off base on that one.

As for changing it for 5 extra mph? Why bother? the 3 minutes saved by traveling occasionally 5mph faster is really not worth it, specially considering it would be trying to create a deviation from what is considered standard practice around the world today. Energy is better spent to get FRA to revisit the Tier II requirements to bring them more in line with European, Japanese and now Chinese practices, instead of insisting on requiring the building tanks and battering rams.

 

[George Harris]

The Amtrak locomotive is actually based on VECTRON, not Euro Sprinter.

compare

http://www.newscom.com/cgi-bin/pub/thumb/wmark/prnphotos098925?doc=PRN/prnphotos/docs/098/925&size=512&logo=logo

Hopefully, we get the thing without the 19th century style buffers plus hook and screw coupling.

Most straight European equipment has not done well on American (or Australian) track because we do not have the extraordinary track smoothness and uniformity that they regard as necessary. That, along with the multiple slow downs and speed ups had a lot to do with the poor performance of th Acela brakes.

 

[Crescent ATN & TCL]

They will look identical to the EuroSprinter. The only difference will be the snow plow, knuckle couplers, and other various FRA required items. Not to mention they will be much heavier to meet requirements. The weight will improve starting tractive effort, but will most likely hurt long term acceleration.

The most well-know use of the EuroSprinters are in the new RailJet Service in Austria.

Wikipedia article on the RailJet

There are other names for this particular locomotive, each railroad has their own designation for them but Siemens refers to them as ES64U4. ACS64U4 will be the designation for the FRA compliant version Amtrak will get.

BTW, They have a very interesting sound when accelerating, almost sounds like someone playing scales....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8xV2xcAfQo

 

[train person]

Most straight European equipment has not done well on American (or Australian) track because we do not have the extraordinary track smoothness and uniformity that they regard as necessary.

Maybe you need to get some of that smoothness and uniformity then, instead of the dog rough track that passes as a railroad in the US?

 

[amtrakwolverine]

Most straight European equipment has not done well on American (or Australian) track because we do not have the extraordinary track smoothness and uniformity that they regard as necessary.

Maybe you need to get some of that smoothness and uniformity then, instead of the dog rough track that passes as a railroad in the US?

Got the money?

 

[jis]

They will look identical to the EuroSprinter. The only difference will be the snow plow, knuckle couplers, and other various FRA required items. Not to mention they will be much heavier to meet requirements. The weight will improve starting tractive effort, but will most likely hurt long term acceleration.

Also I bet the wheel tread profile will be American and not European, yes they are different and using one on the other can cause excessive hunting and other tracking problems. I was astounded to learn that they had initially forgotten this detail on the Acelas! How do you forget something like that?

 

[Dutchrailnut]

They will look identical to the EuroSprinter. The only difference will be the snow plow, knuckle couplers, and other various FRA required items. Not to mention they will be much heavier to meet requirements. The weight will improve starting tractive effort, but will most likely hurt long term acceleration.

Also I bet the wheel tread profile will be American and not European, yes they are different and using one on the other can cause excessive hunting and other tracking problems. I was astounded to learn that they had initially forgotten this detail on the Acelas! How do you forget something like that?

I doubt they forgot since Acela runs with American made wheels and with American profile.

even when swedish meatball and French frie and ICE and X2000 were tested they got wheels cut to standard FRA profile.

 

[Ryan]

I was astounded to learn that they had initially forgotten this detail on the Acelas! How do you forget something like that?

Acela runs with American made wheels and with American profile.

These two statements aren't mutually exclusive.

 

[George Harris]

They will look identical to the EuroSprinter. The only difference will be the snow plow, knuckle couplers, and other various FRA required items. Not to mention they will be much heavier to meet requirements. The weight will improve starting tractive effort, but will most likely hurt long term acceleration.

Also I bet the wheel tread profile will be American and not European, yes they are different and using one on the other can cause excessive hunting and other tracking problems. I was astounded to learn that they had initially forgotten this detail on the Acelas! How do you forget something like that?

I doubt they forgot since Acela runs with American made wheels and with American profile.

even when swedish meatball and French frie and ICE and X2000 were tested they got wheels cut to standard FRA profile.

It is not just wheel profile. It is also back to back spacing between the wheels on the axle. The European standard is a little larger than the AAR standard. In European track narrower flangeways at turnout guardrails compensate for this. With standard AREMA flangeway widths, there is more possibility of the wheel tread hitting the frog point. Not really dangerous, but not very good for either the wheel or the frog.

As to "much heavier" I remain unconvinced that a lot of this is not simply an unwillingness to really analyze the design of the structure. It is far easier just to wring your hand and moan about the "unreasonable" crashworthiness standards on this side of the Atlantic.

 

[jis]

I doubt they forgot since Acela runs with American made wheels and with American profile.

even when swedish meatball and French frie and ICE and X2000 were tested they got wheels cut to standard FRA profile.

Amtrak in a report on the issue of excessive hunting mentioned that in initial tests, when excessive hunting was observed, the first thing that they did was change the wheel profile to American and that reduced hunting considerably, though hunting continued to be a problem with Acelas, and to some extent continues to be a problem today, and the earlier than expected wear of the running gear is partially attributed to this problem. It is also likely that the yaw damper bracket problems were also related to this issue. In any case, the fact that they first bothered testing without using the proper wheel profile is what astounded me.

 

[Nexis4Jersey]

I doubt they forgot since Acela runs with American made wheels and with American profile.

even when swedish meatball and French frie and ICE and X2000 were tested they got wheels cut to standard FRA profile.

Amtrak in a report on the issue of excessive hunting mentioned that in initial tests, when excessive hunting was observed, the first thing that they did was change the wheel profile to American and that reduced hunting considerably, though hunting continued to be a problem with Acelas, and to some extent continues to be a problem today, and the earlier than expected wear of the running gear is partially attributed to this problem. It is also likely that the yaw damper bracket problems were also related to this issue. In any case, the fact that they first bothered testing without using the proper wheel profile is what astounded me.

Why do we need Extra weight? I really don't see why were still doing this in the 21st Century? Don't we take any pointers form Europe and Asia?

 

[jis]

I doubt they forgot since Acela runs with American made wheels and with American profile.

even when swedish meatball and French frie and ICE and X2000 were tested they got wheels cut to standard FRA profile.

Amtrak in a report on the issue of excessive hunting mentioned that in initial tests, when excessive hunting was observed, the first thing that they did was change the wheel profile to American and that reduced hunting considerably, though hunting continued to be a problem with Acelas, and to some extent continues to be a problem today, and the earlier than expected wear of the running gear is partially attributed to this problem. It is also likely that the yaw damper bracket problems were also related to this issue. In any case, the fact that they first bothered testing without using the proper wheel profile is what astounded me.

Why do we need Extra weight? I really don't see why were still doing this in the 21st Century? Don't we take any pointers form Europe and Asia?

I don't see any mention of "extra weight" in the posting that you quoted prefacing your question about "extra weight". Could you clarify what your question has to do with what the quoted material says, perhaps? Thanks.

 

[Dutchrailnut]

I doubt they forgot since Acela runs with American made wheels and with American profile.

even when swedish meatball and French frie and ICE and X2000 were tested they got wheels cut to standard FRA profile.

Amtrak in a report on the issue of excessive hunting mentioned that in initial tests, when excessive hunting was observed, the first thing that they did was change the wheel profile to American and that reduced hunting considerably, though hunting continued to be a problem with Acelas, and to some extent continues to be a problem today, and the earlier than expected wear of the running gear is partially attributed to this problem. It is also likely that the yaw damper bracket problems were also related to this issue. In any case, the fact that they first bothered testing without using the proper wheel profile is what astounded me.

in the report it states that wheels were cut to profile as if they were worn, to simmulate the wear pattern causing the problems, the wheels were always cut to standard FRA profile.

The wheel wear was from lack of lubrication and other rail issues, not wheels themselfs, the wheel wear caused excessive truck hunting which caused cracks in lateral stabilizer mountings.

http://www.fra.dot.gov/downloads/Research/rr0822.pdf

 

[jis]

I doubt they forgot since Acela runs with American made wheels and with American profile.

even when swedish meatball and French frie and ICE and X2000 were tested they got wheels cut to standard FRA profile.

Amtrak in a report on the issue of excessive hunting mentioned that in initial tests, when excessive hunting was observed, the first thing that they did was change the wheel profile to American and that reduced hunting considerably, though hunting continued to be a problem with Acelas, and to some extent continues to be a problem today, and the earlier than expected wear of the running gear is partially attributed to this problem. It is also likely that the yaw damper bracket problems were also related to this issue. In any case, the fact that they first bothered testing without using the proper wheel profile is what astounded me.

in the report it states that wheels were cut to profile as if they were worn, to simmulate the wear pattern causing the problems, the wheels were always cut to standard FRA profile.

The wheel wear was from lack of lubrication and other rail issues, not wheels themselfs, the wheel wear caused excessive truck hunting which caused cracks in lateral stabilizer mountings.

http://www.fra.dot.gov/downloads/Research/rr0822.pdf

Ah! Thanks much for clarifying that. Obviously a miss read on my part on that.