Holiday rail horror story

[MikefromCrete]

I'm not sure... But I think the FRA would be interested to hear from an eye witness.

Do we know what train it was? Was there a cafe attendant who could have shut down the cafe and stayed with passengers? Coach attendant?

It was, from the op, train 303(10)

I'm not sure... But I think the FRA would be interested to hear from an eye witness.

Do we know what train it was? Was there a cafe attendant who could have shut down the cafe and stayed with passengers? Coach attendant?

It was, from the op, train 303(10)

OK, I see the poster did give details eventually. I would think the main problem was leaving passengers alone in a car. Someone needs to be disciplined for that. The hard couple was also a big mistake. This crew needs to be taken out of service for a while. The dispatcher was aware of what was going on, so that would have prevented a passing train was hitting the car. It sounds like the crew took the damaged car to a siding and dropped it off. But they should have moved the passengers to the part of the train that movable and should not have abandoned the passengers without a crew member present.

 

[jebr]

I generally agree with neroden here. The major issues, at least from a safety perspective, stem from the fact that no one from Amtrak stayed on board the disconnected train car for that hour. The other issues mentioned (no AC, bathroom door issues, jostling when the train reconnected) could have been either averted or ensured that they did not cause a safety concern if an Amtrak employee was on board and attentive (by ensuring that the loss of air did not create an overly warm car, advising passengers that the car was being reconnected, and ensuring passengers could get out of the bathroom.) Focus on the safety aspects of those nature; the "felon" aspect will only serve to dilute the core of the message, which is that Amtrak left a car of passengers unattended, trapped on a mainline, and without any way to communicate through official means in an emergency for over an hour.

The delay, lack of A/C (assuming the car didn't get to an unsafe temperature) and those sorts of things are service/customer relations issues; not unsafe, but things that are not positive to the Amtrak experience. The abandonment of the passengers and the resulting issues tied to that are a safety issue, and if the CEO doesn't respond in a reasonable timeframe I would definitely contact your US Congressional delegation and the FRA with the experience. Frankly, this should not happen, and Amtrak should ensure that safety issues like that don't happen again.

 

[SarahZ]

It was 36 degrees outside, so I doubt the car would have gotten to an unsafe temperature. The lack of air flow would have been bothersome to some, though, I'm sure. (I hate stuffy rooms/cars.)

That said, I am surprised they locked everyone in a car and left instead of putting them into the other cars. I would rather stand on a moving train than sit in a locked car with no crew member, news/updates, cell service, etc.

 

[jj_2]

It was 36 degrees outside, so I doubt the car would have gotten to an unsafe temperature. The lack of air flow would have been bothersome to some, though, I'm sure. (I hate stuffy rooms/cars.)

That said, I am surprised they locked everyone in a car and left instead of putting them into the other cars. I would rather stand on a moving train than sit in a locked car with no crew member, news/updates, cell service, etc.

Yeah, it was not hot. It was cold if anything.

Another issue with the lack of communication was that everyone expected they'd be back to pick up our car in a few minutes. That made it all the more disconcerting when it took so long.

I wish they'd done what you said and just had us stand on the main train (or put someone on our car to advise us, who had a radio).

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

I wish they'd done what you said and just had us stand on the main train (or put someone on our car to advise us, who had a radio).

Simple action by the crew, complete different outcome. Not rocket science.

 

[Everydaymatters]

This is an interesting discussion, and I appreciate the input. I can firm up the numbers, as mentioned above.

2 trains went past (that I saw)

2 released felons (that the security guard in Lincoln told me about)

Passengers left alone on orphaned car 1 hour

Passenger stuck in bathroom no more than 15 minutes (they forced the door open with some help)

The only one I can't confirm is the speed the train bumped our car (no announcement to tell us that was about to happen).

This train had a beverage / food car. There was someone on-duty.

I don't know how to get in touch with the people you are mentioning. Does anyone have a phone number or email for somebody who would listen to me?

Again, I boarded Lincoln on Amtrak 302 on 12/29/2016 at 9:20am (it was due 9:05am but was late). It was headed to Chicago, and the orphaned car in question was train car 54571. I took a note... in case any of you feel like passing this along. You sound better connected with Amtrak than I am, clearly (it took me 4 calls just to get a travel voucher... which I can't say I'm feeling urgent to use!).

I have no unnecessary ill will against Amtrak. I simply feel that this went beyond poor customer service and ventured into something quite sketchy. But, as many of you say, perhaps not outright illegal.

Thanks for the opinions and insight. It helps.

I believe this is a typo as in previous posts you stated it was #303.

 

[Everydaymatters]

The Lincoln Service has been plagued with problems for a long time. Too long.

Not sure if I am correct, but I believe this train has only 3 cars, one BC and two coaches. If the bad car was a coach, that left only one BC and one coach in which to move the passengers. The coach passengers in the bad car would not have fit into the BC car, which left only the one remaining coach car.

Too many of us on the Lincoln Service route have had truly bad experiences. It past time for Amtrak to address this. So much focus has been on high speed rail along this route and there has been absolutely no attention paid to the present problems. The equipment is old, outdated, and downright dangerous.

 

[Ryan]

No, the equipment isn't dangerous. It gets inspected constantly for safety. If it wasn't safe, it wouldn't be running.

 

[Everydaymatters]

No, the equipment isn't dangerous. It gets inspected constantly for safety. If it wasn't safe, it wouldn't be running.

I have ended up having to see a doctor because of AC blowing constantly causing a serious sinus condition. My neighbor ended up in the hospital after falling while walking from one car to the other. People being locked up in a car - ok, it turned out alright, but had it been extremely cold or hot, there would have been a different outcome.

 

[jj_2]

The Lincoln Service has been plagued with problems for a long time. Too long.

Not sure if I am correct, but I believe this train has only 3 cars, one BC and two coaches. If the bad car was a coach, that left only one BC and one coach in which to move the passengers. The coach passengers in the bad car would not have fit into the BC car, which left only the one remaining coach car.

Too many of us on the Lincoln Service route have had truly bad experiences. It past time for Amtrak to address this. So much focus has been on high speed rail along this route and there has been absolutely no attention paid to the present problems. The equipment is old, outdated, and downright dangerous.

That day there were 3 coaches + a dining car that appeared to have a very small BC at the front of the car (same car). Perhaps there was another BC ahead of that. But definitely 3 coaches.

 

[Manny T]

Not sure how the incident can be viewed as anything less than extremely serious.

Separate out the inconveniences and just focus on passengers on an unattended car on an active track. I suppose it would be illegal for a member of the public to board an abandoned. unattended railcar sitting alone on a siding somewhere with no Amtrak personnel in attendance. How then can it not be a gross violation for Amtrak to leave 100 PAX alone and unattended in an abandoned railcar? It boggles the imagination imho.

Shouldn't the train have stayed in place and called for help? Or perhaps summoned buses to remove the PAX and then attend to the mechanical problems?

 

[Ryan]

No, the equipment isn't dangerous. It gets inspected constantly for safety. If it wasn't safe, it wouldn't be running.

I have ended up having to see a doctor because of AC blowing constantly causing a serious sinus condition. My neighbor ended up in the hospital after falling while walking from one car to the other. People being locked up in a car - ok, it turned out alright, but had it been extremely cold or hot, there would have been a different outcome.

Air conditioning doesn't make a rail car dangerous.

Lack of balance and a perhaps rough track doesn't make a rail car dangerous.

Poor operational decisions don't mean that the rail car is dangerous.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

Poor operational decisions don't mean that the rail car is dangerous.

No the rail car was not dangerous, the poor operational decision was dangerous.

 

[Ryan]

It's a good thing that I didn't say that it wasn't.

 

[A Voice]

Too many of us on the Lincoln Service route have had truly bad experiences. It past time for Amtrak to address this. So much focus has been on high speed rail along this route and there has been absolutely no attention paid to the present problems. The equipment is old, outdated, and downright dangerous.

No, the equipment isn't dangerous. It gets inspected constantly for safety. If it wasn't safe, it wouldn't be running.

I have ended up having to see a doctor because of AC blowing constantly causing a serious sinus condition. My neighbor ended up in the hospital after falling while walking from one car to the other. People being locked up in a car - ok, it turned out alright, but had it been extremely cold or hot, there would have been a different outcome.

And how was this the fault of the Horizon cars used on the Lincoln service trains? If it had been an Amfleet coach, your neighbor could not have fallen? You've never seen air conditioning blow constantly anywhere before - such as in your own home, church, or business - except in a Horizon car?

We need to take just a bit of care with the hyperbole and gross exaggerations. There are people who come here looking for more information on Amtrak; Many of them wouldn't know a cabbage car from a Viewliner diner, and would certainly get the wrong idea from comments such as "old, outdated, and downright dangerous", which simply isn't true. We know the equipment is due for replacement with something more modern, but not everybody understands that.

Not sure how the incident can be viewed as anything less than extremely serious.

Separate out the inconveniences and just focus on passengers on an unattended car on an active track. I suppose it would be illegal for a member of the public to board an abandoned. unattended railcar sitting alone on a siding somewhere with no Amtrak personnel in attendance. How then can it not be a gross violation for Amtrak to leave 100 PAX alone and unattended in an abandoned railcar? It boggles the imagination imho.

Shouldn't the train have stayed in place and called for help? Or perhaps summoned buses to remove the PAX and then attend to the mechanical problems?

No, it shouldn't. From what we know, the situation appears to have largely been handled properly (again, aside from remarkably poor communication, but that's purely a customer service issue, not an operational one). And I'd still like to know what the rules say about the unattended coach.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Dude, some quick advice- send two copies of the letter, one through regular mail and one certified, and reference that you did this in the letter.

 

[jj_2]

Dude, some quick advice- send two copies of the letter, one through regular mail and one certified, and reference that you did this in the letter.

Good advice. I will do that. I suppose the certified mail gives me proof of receipt which can be used later if I do not get a response?

 

[west point]

Steve 4031. Find it interesting that the air compressor failed. Any chance you have the loco number ? If you read the monthly performance reports you will find that Air Compressors are changed out on all locos on a time not failure basis. As well that work is performed at CHI loco facility. Once the December performance report comes out you can look to see if that loco had been thru the compressor failure. Any way for CHI to be responsible for compressor replacements and one to fail 20 mile departing from CHI is suspect at the least. Good hunting !

 

[Steve4031]

Interesting. My girlfriend was on that train and not me. She would not have gotten that. Where do I get these reports that you are telling me about.

 

[west point]

Interesting. My girlfriend was on that train and not me. She would not have gotten that. Where do I get these reports that you are telling me about.

Amtrak web site. Look for and click reports and documents. Then page down until you find at bottom monthly performance reports for last 13 months of reports. Click desired month. Presently September 2016 is last report. October 2016 is now month late and November usually would be out next week But ? ? ?

 

[Cho Cho Charlie]

I would simply take this as one of those unfortunate events that seems to happen on Amtrak. From my own past experience (which I will get into), I find that Amtrak Customer Relations to be quite easy to work with, if the OP is looking for some kind of restitution, Customer Relations will make it happen.

It has been years ago, but I was on a Silver that stuck for over 24 hours. Though we weren't physically locked in, the crew would not let anyone exit from the train. While that didn't directly effect me, it did effect those who had to go 24 hours without a smoke stop. The coach people ran out of food, and their bathrooms quickly became unusable (though, I put 99% of that blame onto the coach passengers themselves).

What got me most, and it still gets me that as a mere passenger I knew this, but not one Amtrak person, from the conductor up to the CEO, knew about this, but as soon as the train was able to start moving again, the crew timed out. And with that, the train came to a halt again, in the middle of a swamp. This really irked me, because Amtrak had 24 hours to get a relief crew to the train, but chose not to. Amtrak could have stopped the train at the last station, but didn't. So, we had another 2+ hour wait in that swamp.

The biggest issue, is the lack of communications between Amtrak and the train crew. Zero. Nothing. The only communications that the conductor had, was using his personal cell phone to directly call some of this work friends. I would venture a guess that something similar happened here. The crew was left completely on their own, and given that, might have not made the best choices.

 

[Everydaymatters]

Interesting. My girlfriend was on that train and not me. She would not have gotten that. Where do I get these reports that you are telling me about.

Steve, has your girlfriend received a reply to her letter yet?

 

[Steve4031]

Not yet. We called customer service and they looked it up and gave her 100 dollar evoucher. The letter was sent on 12/16. I helped her write the part describing what happened since she never really understood that 21 was combined with her train.

It was her idea to go onto Amtrak's website and read about Moorman's goals and put that into the letter. I thought that was brilliant.

Moorman's biggest challenge imho operationally is to improve the performance of under performing maintenance yards.

 

[neroden]

Dude, some quick advice- send two copies of the letter, one through regular mail and one certified, and reference that you did this in the letter.

Good advice. I will do that. I suppose the certified mail gives me proof of receipt which can be used later if I do not get a response?

Well, technically certified only gives you proof of mailing. Actually, send it "certified mail, return receipt requested". I do this *all the time* for important financial documents. Then you'll get an actual receipt proving that it was delivered.

 

[neroden]

The biggest issue, is the lack of communications between Amtrak and the train crew. Zero. Nothing. The only communications that the conductor had, was using his personal cell phone to directly call some of this work friends. I would venture a guess that something similar happened here. The crew was left completely on their own, and given that, might have not made the best choices.

That's ridiculous, certainly. There are two problems there:

(1) The CSX dispatcher is supposed to be in contact with Amtrak's operations center to handle recrewing, etc. Was the CSX dispatcher slacking?

(2) If the CSX dispatchers routinely fail to do their job of contacting Amtrak, then Amtrak needs to issue its employees with a method of direct contact with Amtrak's operations center.