Will dining cars resume 12/15/20?/Flexible dining extended to May 2021?

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I'm all for having no included food rather than the abysmal disgusting stuff they have now and bring down the price... but they'd rather include cheep cheap food to keep prices inflated.
People always say this until they realize they just pay the same inflated prices but without the included food. Norwegian Cruise Lines went down the road of charging extra for things that use to be included and their prices didn’t drop dramatically.
 
I've been on three cross country trips in the last six months using sleepers. I understand the concerns,but I have had no problems at all.
 
People always say this until they realize they just pay the same inflated prices but without the included food. Norwegian Cruise Lines went down the road of charging extra for things that use to be included and their prices didn’t drop dramatically.

And when Amtrak replaced full service dining with the flex flop program prices went unchanged... or higher! :eek: :confused: 🤮 :mad:
 
The only thing that would have been different pre-covid was Acela FC. the Crescent and Cardinal had the flex menu before covid.
True - but that was a Mica, Anderson & Trump problem. Now it’s a Covid problem that (in my opinion) will prevent us from lobbying for improved food until it’s over. When Covid ends - we’ll see if the lack of Mica, Anderson and Trump will help our efforts or not.
 
I'm all for having no included food rather than the abysmal disgusting stuff they have now and bring down the price... but they'd rather include cheep cheap food to keep prices inflated.

If they don’t drop prices for sleepers during Covid (other than specials on companion fares) - then I don’t see them ever dropping Sleeper fares for any reason - certainly not for food. The Star was an experiment, and that’s over.

Whether that is right or “fair” is a moot point. They are equipment constrained and they tend to fill up the sleepers they have at the higher pricing - so why change?
 
Yes... but with COVID it's hit and miss... like... it's all chance. Thousands are dying each day. For me, needless risk is totally unjustified.

It’s true it’s hit or miss. I’ve travelled quite a bit during Covid because I felt like I had to. I’ve driven, taken Amtrak and flown multiple airlines.

My assessment based simply on experience is they can all be equally safe or equally unsafe, depending on how you look at it.

Personally, I feel restaurants pose the biggest risks while traveling. People tend to spend an hour or more in a public place with their mask off.
 
What leads you to believe anybody in management [I assumed you meant Amtrak management] sees this forum?
The forum was started by an Amtrak employee with management's awareness and approval, members have provided information and explanations that rank and file employees don't seem to know about, some uniformed staff have said they know about the forum but don't comment because they have been told it's monitored, members more connected than I have stated that management sometimes monitors the forum, we've had at least one contributor who sounded like a focus group plant, and I've had someone claiming to be Amtrak management reach out to me to inquire about comments in a post. It doesn't seem to be as common these days and maybe in a vacuum none of these examples would mean much, but when viewed in totality I'm inclined to believe it.

I find this subject interesting...When I first went to work for a railroad (BN), I was warned by acquaintance's, to not give any clue to their recruiter that I was a railfan, as that was a sure fire way of not getting hired. And I found that professional railroader's mostly have disdain for those of us that are. Sure there are many, but many keep it 'in the closet'.
Field work is a different world from desk work. Amtrak is super progressive compared to the freight industry but I'd still be careful about admitting rail fan status. Even if the hiring manager did not personally care he'd know you're someone who volunteers information that could potentially cause friction with other resources. As a trainspotter I've certainly experienced "suspicious activity" shakedowns after a train passed by. I get that safety warnings come with the territory but when I was a kid they let me walk through active yards unchallenged and now they hassle me ten feet away from the loop track. I will say that for some employees it's the recording (and potential for reporting) that bothers them more than simply being a rail fan. I'm generally pretty safe at work but if someone pointed a recording device at me I'd probably consider them more of a threat than a friend.
 
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Brian Gallagher, when he ran operations at Amtrak, certainly was aware of AU...had the pleasure of his company on an Amtrak Autumn Excursion, and he teased a few of us, warning he'd "better not read his insider comments on AU"...;)😄
 
As for the meals, there must be something more appealing, more healthy, and can be served according to Covid health regulations. Almost anything frozen is high in sodium and preservatives. Big Question??? Has the Amtrak Management Team consumed EACH of the meals being served? I am not talking one manager, but everyone from the highest level down. I sincerely doubt hardly one manager has tried the meals except maybe a specially prepared test meal. They should try living on the food they serve for three nights four days as if they were traveling DC to LA. When they travel they should travel in a roomette with passengers and eat with the passengers. I realize right now Covid makes mingling with passengers difficult, but hopefully by a year from now we are getting more normal.,

Yes and, as you said, they should travel in Roomettes without toilets to see how pleasant it is to trudge down the hall in the middle of the night - and risk infection during Covid. And eat the unhealthy food served. Unfortunately, this isn't going to happen. It's just a job.
 
Of the various problems with the dining options for the Easter trains, if they are to remain with "flex dining" ... while they could make the food better - for what they are offering compared to what used to be offered or what full dining on the Western trains was ... they need to LOWER the prices of the sleeper fares. Since they have removed a value item from the overall trip the fare should be adjusted accordingly. The small difference they had on the Star when they discontinued meals compared to the Silver when they still had full dining was not enough of a price difference.

There would be far less complaints if the worthless food was removed from the ticket price and the fares lowered enough to make purchasing or bringing food worth the fare.

I really wish they'd remove the "free food" and reduce sleeper fares. This was a bad concept from the start.
 
I agree that nothing will change much until the majority have the vaccine and the numbers are way down to an acceptable level. Nothing in the cafe right now is any better to me than the provided meal.
Fauci says masks will continue after the vaccines as vaccines are not 100% effective so looks like a very long haul...and there are now new strains in the UK and South Africa that will almost certainly reach USA. Will new vaccines be needed?
 
In the sleepers you're getting recirculated air through the vents.

Why risk it?

https://www.businessinsider.com/is-train-travel-safe-coronavirus

How safe are upholstered seats? When attendants make up beds do they use fresh latex gloves or do they use their bare hands which may not have been carefully washed? Are compartments carefully sanitized after occupants have departed and prior to others entering the same compartment? Are frequent contact surfaces (doorknobs, light switches, bathrooms etc) sanitized? How often do employees change masks en route? Who monitors all of this to assure compliance?
 
Yes and, as you said, they should travel in Roomettes without toilets to see how pleasant it is to trudge down the hall in the middle of the night - and risk infection during Covid.

What, exactly, would this accomplish? Make them waive their magic wands and put private toilets in every roomette (physically impossible to do on Superliners, as the plumbing doesn’t exist). Turn back the clock 8 years to when the Viewliner II sleepers were ordered? **** off the other half of AU that whines that having a toilet in the roomette is the equivalent to a prison cell?
 
Brian Gallagher, when he ran operations at Amtrak, certainly was aware of AU...had the pleasure of his company on an Amtrak Autumn Excursion, and he teased a few of us, warning he'd "better not read his insider comments on AU"...;)😄
Brian has been and probably still is a member of AU. In the past he has posted on AU several times even when he was Boardman's right hand man, although not necessarily about any deep Amtrak secrets or insights. He is a good friend of several of us. He is still quite active on Facebook among friends. Too bad he is not as active in Amtrak operations any more. He might have retired from Amtrak finally, though I am told he is still occasionally seen at the Albany base, which was always his home base. Anderson pretty much sent him off to purgatory as far as I can tell.
 
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Fauci says masks will continue after the vaccines as vaccines are not 100% effective so looks like a very long haul...and there are now new strains in the UK and South Africa that will almost certainly reach USA. Will new vaccines be needed?
The current prognosis is that the affected parts are not the specific spike proteins used in the vaccines. But of course that could change since RNA viruses are expected to mutate faster than DNA viruses. But we also know how to gin up a new vaccine in a matter of days now too.

Since we are quoting Dr. Fauci, perhaps it would be appropriate to listen through this entire interview in detail to hear things from the horse's mouth. Note what he says about October/November...

https://fivethirtyeight.com/videos/...s-approach-to-the-pandemic/?ex_cid=538twitter
 
What, exactly, would this accomplish? Make them waive their magic wands and put private toilets in every roomette (physically impossible to do on Superliners, as the plumbing doesn’t exist). Turn back the clock 8 years to when the Viewliner II sleepers were ordered? **** off the other half of AU that whines that having a toilet in the roomette is the equivalent to a prison cell?

Those who found the presence of toilets in the rooms objectionable may feel differently now that Covid is a factor. Superliners will have to be replaced eventually. New equipment should be designed with toilets in every room. I don't believe Roomettes are large enough for two berths; I'd return them to traditional one person Roomettes. There is no reason to manufacture according to the same designs. A Democrat Administration is more likely to be sympathetic to Amtrak. Hopefully funding will improve, better equipment can be ordered and Amtrak will be under less pressure. Before more mistakes are made, Amtrak management needs to see for themselves what it's like to travel in Superliner Roomettes, especially with two people in the claustrophobic rooms. They also need to eat the food provided for two or three days. That might influence planning.
 
Those who found the presence of toilets in the rooms objectionable may feel differently now that Covid is a factor. Superliners will have to be replaced eventually. New equipment should be designed with toilets in every room. I don't believe Roomettes are large enough for two berths; I'd return them to traditional one person Roomettes. There is no reason to manufacture according to the same designs. A Democrat Administration is more likely to be sympathetic to Amtrak. Hopefully funding will improve, better equipment can be ordered and Amtrak will be under less pressure. Before more mistakes are made, Amtrak management needs to see for themselves what it's like to travel in Superliner Roomettes, especially with two people in the claustrophobic rooms. They also need to eat the food provided for two or three days. That might influence planning.

1) There are people on this very forum who, just in the last couple of weeks (i.e. long after COVID became a factor) complained about toilets in rooms and wanted to know if they could book a trip and be guaranteed a new Viewliner without a toilet in the room. My memory on this is hazy, but as I recall when the new Viewliners were ordered, it was explained that those that liked an in-room toilet and those that didn’t were somewhat evenly split, but those that didn’t like it felt much more strongly against it than those who liked it felt strongly for it. This was among all passengers, not just AUers/railfans.

2) COVID won’t always be a factor, and railcars have a 40+ year service life. Toilets in every room was easy when railcars didn’t need plumbing. Now that they do, it requires a lot more maintenance. That adds to cost x 40 years.

3) If COVID bothers you a lot (and I’m not saying it shouldn’t, it’s a serious virus with potentially deadly effects), the answer is really to stay home, not to worry about the 2-3 minutes at a time you’ll spend in a restroom shared by a few others).

4) Amtrak management absolutely do know what it’s like in roomettes

5) If you think roomettes are too small for two people, feel free to book one just for yourself and not share it with anyone. Nobody is stopping you.

6) A [Democratic] administration has nothing to do with anything regarding roomette design. The Viewliner IIs were ordered under a Democratic administration (again, not that it means anything). All of the current Amtrak board members except for Elaine Chao (as Secretary of Transportation) and William Flynn (as CEO) have been around since the Obama administration. It still takes both houses of Congress to pass a bill that would legislatively direct Amtrak to do anything. So, what’s supposed to change?
 
Problems with Amtrak management are nothing new. It would take really strong national leadership to clean it up; we have an incoming president who is best positioned to make a difference at Amtrak.

And if management is to be successful, they should tap this forum for a sounding board... there are some very experienced and competent minds which feed us all some very vital and meaningful information. Collectively we have come up with a treasure trove of ideas... and every board of directors that want to manage successfully rely on client input.

Am I out of place for concluding that our members have been coming up with great ideas and have brought forth successfully the many issues that have been impairing Amtrak operations? If Amtrak management was actually listening to its clientele, they would already be aware of the Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum. Wondering how others on this forum feel about being listened to directly by Amtrak management?
In the days before the WWW, it was known that Amtrak presidents Paul Reistrup and Graham Claytor read the blog-like little magazine Rail Travel News. I was asked a couple of times not to write up something that was not supposed to be happening. And in the early 80's an Amtrak marketing planner rode VIA Rail across Canada specifically to see how they did things.

Serious firms do that sort of thing. I had "tea at the Brown" Palace in Denver with a woman who was a manager with a hotel chain that I won't identify. It was on their credit card so that she could see that famous ritual.
 
1) There are people on this very forum who, just in the last couple of weeks (i.e. long after COVID became a factor) complained about toilets in rooms and wanted to know if they could book a trip and be guaranteed a new Viewliner without a toilet in the room. My memory on this is hazy, but as I recall when the new Viewliners were ordered, it was explained that those that liked an in-room toilet and those that didn’t were somewhat evenly split, but those that didn’t like it felt much more strongly against it than those who liked it felt strongly for it. This was among all passengers, not just AUers/railfans.

2) COVID won’t always be a factor, and railcars have a 40+ year service life. Toilets in every room was easy when railcars didn’t need plumbing. Now that they do, it requires a lot more maintenance. That adds to cost x 40 years.

3) If COVID bothers you a lot (and I’m not saying it shouldn’t, it’s a serious virus with potentially deadly effects), the answer is really to stay home, not to worry about the 2-3 minutes at a time you’ll spend in a restroom shared by a few others).

4) Amtrak management absolutely do know what it’s like in roomettes

5) If you think roomettes are too small for two people, feel free to book one just for yourself and not share it with anyone. Nobody is stopping you.

6) A [Democratic] administration has nothing to do with anything regarding roomette design. The Viewliner IIs were ordered under a Democratic administration (again, not that it means anything). All of the current Amtrak board members except for Elaine Chao (as Secretary of Transportation) and William Flynn (as CEO) have been around since the Obama administration. It still takes both houses of Congress to pass a bill that would legislatively direct Amtrak to do anything. So, what’s supposed to change?

I think everyone will agree that compartments with toilets in separate en suite bathrooms (Bedroom style) would be preferable not only in terms of comfort but hygiene. The US is a developed country. Bathrooms down the hall is really a retrograde idea. The whole design of Superliner replacement cars needs rethinking. I suggest abolishing the Roomette design altogether. In addition, if traditional dining is a thing of the past, consideration has to be given to food storage and heating facilities in sleeping cars. Covid may not be around forever but it is already mutating in the UK and South Africa. There will be other viruses. Whatever happens, our way of life has changed permanently. Everyone from architects to home buyers will be influenced by what has happened. Amtrak cannot be an exception. A lot has happened since the last Democrat administration. There is reason to think that some serious pro passenger train decisions could be made in the near future.
 
How about this; Amtrak reinstates traditional dining, but replaces all the seats in the dining car with toilets.

Funny but to be serious, a better solution to the food issue would be to seriously upgrade so-called flexible dining and cafe car selections. I don't think this is going to happen, however, before Amtrak is taken off survival mode. The Superliners are going to have to be replaced before long but does Amtrak management really want that? Or would they prefer to see the long haul system dismantled? If Amtrak is to have a future outside the Northeast Corridor, its own board and management need to be committed to a national system. I suspect the incoming Administration may be the last real chance to make changes. As for dining, I don't see a return to tradition. A compromise could be to make major improvements to cafe car service and substantial upgrades to in-room sleeping car dining. Frozen food does not have to be bad but Amtrak must use some imagination and make a little effort in seeking out better purveyors.
 
The mRNA vaccines should cover any mutations of the Covid 19 virus according to a couple articles that I have read this week. The way things have gone, that could be completely outdated/not necessarily true next month. ;-)
Fauci may want us to stay masked up, but if the risk is perceived to be lower it will be impossible to keep people masked up in most venues once the fear level is lower. We will probably mask up on mass transit much like the Japanese did after SARS and before Covid, but don't mistake todays surety for tomorrows. We tend to think that what has become normal will stay normal, when in point of fact it was never normal at all. If that makes any sense at all. LOL!
And in point of fact it doesn't matter if the vaccines are only 95% effective. Once you get to a certain point it becomes very difficult for a contagious person to find someone who isn't carrying the antibodies at a level needed to protect them. And when the R-factor drops below 1 by a significant amount we will have effectively ended the threat. It won't be completely gone, but the clamor to go back to something closer to "normal" will be unstoppable. And for good reason. We have done unmeasurable damage to our national economy, as has just about every nation that has locked down. The lockdown has been a huge factor in the recent spike in suicide (according to CDC director Redfield) and in the destruction of family businesses that have been those families lifelong dreams. Undiagnosed illnesses have unnecessarily become fatal due to a lack of health care, again due to people sheltering at home.
We aren't going to throw our masks away and we may never go back to singing in the choir at church, but in many ways we will go back much closer to what used to be considered normal.
And on a lighter note, I imagine that restaurants will never go back to the "pack 'em in!" sort of table arrangement that they used to do. Tables will probably stay far enough apart so that I won't be able to hear the conversation at the three tables nearest me! :cool: Hand me enough lemons and I can make a lot of lemonade!

Fauci says masks will continue after the vaccines as vaccines are not 100% effective so looks like a very long haul...and there are now new strains in the UK and South Africa that will almost certainly reach USA. Will new vaccines be needed?
 
I think everyone will agree that compartments with toilets in separate en suite bathrooms (Bedroom style) would be preferable not only in terms of comfort but hygiene.

I’ve got good news for you! Such an accommodation already exists on Amtrak, bookable today on every train with a sleeper.

The US is a developed country. Bathrooms down the hall is really a retrograde idea.

Bathrooms down the hall also exists on lots of trains in Canada, Europe, Australia, etc.

I suggest abolishing the Roomette design altogether.

Why? Because you don’t like it?
 
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