Ideas about increasing Amtrak ridership

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Joined
Nov 24, 2009
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Location
Hillsborough, NJ
I believe that higher gasoline prices could lead to shorter driving trips. Amtrak ridership could go up but the mentality of the American people would need to change into accepting passenger rail as alternative transportation. Most of the people that I speak with know nothing about it, and Amtrak currently does very little marketing and advertising.
 
I believe that higher gasoline prices could lead to shorter driving trips. Amtrak ridership could go up but the mentality of the American people would need to change into accepting passenger rail as alternative transportation. Most of the people that I speak with know nothing about it, and Amtrak currently does very little marketing and advertising.
There really does need to be more advertising from Amtrak. Even people who have some knowledge of Amtrak may not be familiar with the routes that come near where they live, or even that there is a train coming near them (now obviously some areas are not served or not served well by Amtrak, but that's another issue.) Most airlines and car companies focus on why you should choose *them* in their advertising, but Amtrak needs to make sure to promote rail travel in general. Promote the benefits of rail travel - the comfortable Coach seats, the ability to upgrade to a Sleeper, the lounge car you get on some trains, the dining car (and when they restore Coach access and ESPECIALLY Traditional Dining on all Long Distance trains as they sound like they're going to - promote this hard), and just the general ability to relax and not do any driving or find hotels every night or any of the other benefits of rail travel. Offer sales frequently and promote them to get people to try the train. Then finally, Amtrak has to deliver on all the exciting features they promote like Sightseer Lounge Cars on Superliner Long Distance trains and Traditional Dining on all Long Distance trains.
 
There is an old adage about how to achieve financial success in business: FIND A NEED AND FILL IT. Those who don’t like to fly and who are no longer up to driving long distances have a definite need that Amtrak can fill. Those who want to see their country at eye level when they travel have a need that Amtrak can fill. Those who are concerned about the environment and in reducing the carbon footprint have a need that Amtrak can fill. (You can probably think of many other needs that Amtrak can fill.)

As has been discussed in other threads, if Amtrak management is serious about making Amtrak a financial success, then it should concentrate on promoting the many needs that traveling by train can fill. It should also ensure that the necessary equipment and staff are available to accommodate those who choose Amtrak to fulfill their needs.
 
Someone already touched on this and it has been discussed in other AU threads - rental cars. Unless one doesn't need transportation at the destination, I'm not sure gas prices have reached the "tipping point" yet where people will automatically abandon driving in favor of Amtrak (or flying for that matter). Rental vehicles currently aren't cheap, you still have to fuel them and there are reports of shortages when picking one up. It's something to consider in addition to your fare versus having your own vehicle with known cost, reliability, etc.
 
Someone already touched on this and it has been discussed in other AU threads - rental cars. Unless one doesn't need transportation at the destination, I'm not sure gas prices have reached the "tipping point" yet where people will automatically abandon driving in favor of Amtrak (or flying for that matter). Rental vehicles currently aren't cheap, you still have to fuel them and there are reports of shortages when picking one up. It's something to consider in addition to your fare versus having your own vehicle with known cost, reliability, etc.
I think an important part of advocacy for intercity transportation that's not driving (including rail), especially for not as long distances (I'm not sure how many people drive all the way across the country but a lot of people drive LA to Vegas for example) is advocacy for local transit. Not only are there many other benefits to transit, including environmental and efficiency benefits (less cars = less traffic) and transit is just cheaper for everyone, but if people decide they will need a car at their destination, they may decide to drive to their destination and use their regular car at their destination. You not only have to provide good, affordable service on Amtrak, you have to show people that when they get to their destination they're not going to be spending hundreds or even thousands of dollars on a rental car to have a good trip.
 
I think an important part of advocacy for intercity transportation that's not driving (including rail), especially for not as long distances (I'm not sure how many people drive all the way across the country but a lot of people drive LA to Vegas for example) is advocacy for local transit. Not only are there many other benefits to transit, including environmental and efficiency benefits (less cars = less traffic) and transit is just cheaper for everyone, but if people decide they will need a car at their destination, they may decide to drive to their destination and use their regular car at their destination. You not only have to provide good, affordable service on Amtrak, you have to show people that when they get to their destination they're not going to be spending hundreds or even thousands of dollars on a rental car to have a good trip.

This absolutely.

Furthermore, in addition to the local transit actually being there, it needs to be easy to use and easy to get schedules and buy tickets etc. I'm very much in favor of transit myself, be it a proper train all the way down to a minibus, and will use it wherever I can just as a way of exploring and getting to see different systems, and thus have more patience and tolerance than many others. I have often been totally stumped by websites with absolutely cryptic information, probably designed to be understandable only to locals, if that, and that looked as if they hadn't been updated in years. The minimum a local transit agency should offer on their website should be a route/system map, schedules and fares as well as how and where to buy a ticket. It would also help if Amtrak linked to connecting transit agencies from their own schedules.
 
This absolutely.

Furthermore, in addition to the local transit actually being there, it needs to be easy to use and easy to get schedules and buy tickets etc. I'm very much in favor of transit myself, be it a proper train all the way down to a minibus, and will use it wherever I can just as a way of exploring and getting to see different systems, and thus have more patience and tolerance than many others. I have often been totally stumped by websites with absolutely cryptic information, probably designed to be understandable only to locals, if that, and that looked as if they hadn't been updated in years. The minimum a local transit agency should offer on their website should be a route/system map, schedules and fares as well as how and where to buy a ticket. It would also help if Amtrak linked to connecting transit agencies from their own schedules.
I live in LA and during the earlier parts of the pandemic, LA Metro suspended fare collection on busses since they wanted everyone to board from the rear unless they needed the wheelchair ramp to help protect drivers. Then in June 2021 as part of a major schedule update they resumed fare collection, except they didn't communicate this well so everyone was confused. Then they started releasing statements about how they wanted people to pay "if possible" and also that drivers were not "quoting fares" (apparently this is a system introduced pre-pandemic where drivers are to inform and answer questions but not enforce the fare so people wouldn't attack them) and basically the drivers were just supposed to not enforce the fare at all except some were doing so. They finally just told everyone to stop paying for the time being on busses and covered the fareboxes up. They actually resumed fare collection last month although most drivers are being kind of patient or even lenient, and I have actually encountered several fareboxes that just are broken in the last couple weeks. By the way, our local Metrolink system has a deal with Metro to allow people to go to their trains using their train ticket and neighboring Orange County (the home of Disneyland) accepts both Metrolink and Amtrak tickets when going to and from the station.
 
Since Amtrak has chosen to limit capacity on LD trains I don’t see it having much impact except maybe Auto-Train. However, for the daily commuter, and perhaps the NEC traveler, they may be more likely to return to mass transit - if they have that option. The administration should be promoting that as they look for ways to offset higher gas prices.
 
I wonder if Amtrak were to do a nationwide TV ad blitz, if that would spur an increase in ridership? Or at least get a conversation started amongst those that don’t even think about Amtrak as a possibility

I’ve got friends who know, I’m a devoted Amtrak user. However, up until this latest round of price increases for fuel, have shown little to no interest in my preferred mode of travel when vacationing. Couple that with wanting to save miles on their vehicles due to what new and used vehicles are currently going for. All of a sudden they are now thinking seriously of alternatives.
 
In the face of severely constrained capacity, not sure of the utility of this.

With the cost of sleeper fares becoming unapproachable for many, I guess the last thing we need is the same to happen to coach fares as well.

More new equipment, and not just a replacement of current equipment would be nice. I still have some youth left in me, but I’m afraid for better or worse, Amfleet will out live me. Lol.

Will the increase in oil and gas prices affect how much Amtrak charges for their trips? Will it cause an increase in Amtrak prices? Is there a built-in price differential between electrified routes and those using diesel?

In the short term no. If prices stay high long enough then yes. How long they have to stay high for a price increase? That I don’t know. Might depend on how their fuel contracts are written with their various suppliers.

That’s an interesting question about electrified vs diesel.
 
I wonder if Amtrak were to do a nationwide TV ad blitz, if that would spur an increase in ridership? Or at least get a conversation started amongst those that don’t even think about Amtrak as a possibility
I see Amtrak promoting itself on Twitter all the time, and I'm not counting Amtrak Alerts. I'm not on Facebook or Instagram, so I don't know if Amtrak's there too. I see Amtrak internet ads.

Mind you, the ads and tweets one sees are somewhat linked to what one reads/searches/clicks so that a person could be on Twitter and the internet generally but see no Amtrak tweets or ads. However, I've also seen Amtrak billboards along the highways -- I saw one within the last couple of weeks in the vicinity of O'Hare Airport (don't remember which expressway I was on at the time) -- and there's no filter for those. :)

I see plenty of YouTube travel bloggers who post their Amtrak trips, and some make it clear in their videos that they get cooperation from the Amtrak marketing people.

So clearly Amtrak does advertise and market itself, just not necessarily in television ads like it's still 1978.
 
I see Amtrak promoting itself on Twitter all the time, and I'm not counting Amtrak Alerts. I'm not on Facebook or Instagram, so I don't know if Amtrak's there too. I see Amtrak internet ads.

Mind you, the ads and tweets one sees are somewhat linked to what one reads/searches/clicks so that a person could be on Twitter and the internet generally but see no Amtrak tweets or ads. However, I've also seen Amtrak billboards along the highways -- I saw one within the last couple of weeks in the vicinity of O'Hare Airport (don't remember which expressway I was on at the time) -- and there's no filter for those. :)

I see plenty of YouTube travel bloggers who post their Amtrak trips, and some make it clear in their videos that they get cooperation from the Amtrak marketing people.

So clearly Amtrak does advertise and market itself, just not necessarily in television ads like it's still 1978.

Yes I’m aware of the social media posts that Amtrak does. Also aware of the many YouTube vloggers. Some of the vloggers have produced some really good content. Nice free advertising for Amtrak to boot. With that said, something is still amiss.
 
I see Amtrak promoting itself on Twitter all the time, and I'm not counting Amtrak Alerts. I'm not on Facebook or Instagram, so I don't know if Amtrak's there too. I see Amtrak internet ads.

Mind you, the ads and tweets one sees are somewhat linked to what one reads/searches/clicks so that a person could be on Twitter and the internet generally but see no Amtrak tweets or ads. However, I've also seen Amtrak billboards along the highways -- I saw one within the last couple of weeks in the vicinity of O'Hare Airport (don't remember which expressway I was on at the time) -- and there's no filter for those. :)

I see plenty of YouTube travel bloggers who post their Amtrak trips, and some make it clear in their videos that they get cooperation from the Amtrak marketing people.

So clearly Amtrak does advertise and market itself, just not necessarily in television ads like it's still 1978.
Yes I’m aware of the social media posts that Amtrak does. Also aware of the many YouTube vloggers. Some of the vloggers have produced some really good content. Nice free advertising for Amtrak to boot. With that said, something is still amiss.
In the past 10 years, Amtrak, and train travel in general, has finally entered public consciousness in many parts of the country, and ridership trends are up in a way nobody would have expected years ago. This is due to a few factors, not limited to:
-environmentally conscious travel
-the younger generations (non boomer) travelling abroad and seeing how the rest of the world operates
-traffic finally hitting a breaking point
-the myths of car culture finally subsiding.

With all of these vloggers, and content creators posting about Amtrak and train travel in general, many people are beginning to ask the right questions, and pushing for the right answers and actions.

TV ads wont really work, as people in general don't watch much cable TV anymore.
With that said, I think Amtrak is actually doing a decent job on advertising.
 
In the past 10 years, Amtrak, and train travel in general, has finally entered public consciousness in many parts of the country, and ridership trends are up in a way nobody would have expected years ago. This is due to a few factors, not limited to:
-environmentally conscious travel
-the younger generations (non boomer) travelling abroad and seeing how the rest of the world operates
-traffic finally hitting a breaking point
-the myths of car culture finally subsiding.

With all of these vloggers, and content creators posting about Amtrak and train travel in general, many people are beginning to ask the right questions, and pushing for the right answers and actions.

TV ads wont really work, as people in general don't watch much cable TV anymore.
With that said, I think Amtrak is actually doing a decent job on advertising.
IMHO the best way to promote train travel is to find a way to post or publish the TRIP REPORTS that people write up after they've taken a train trip. Since these trip reports are written by real people based on their actual experiences (both good and bad), they'll have more credibility than an ad in a magazine or on TV. After reading a good trip report, I want to ride the train and I would image that a lot of other people would as well.
 
IMHO the best way to promote train travel is to find a way to post or publish the TRIP REPORTS that people write up after they've taken a train trip. Since these trip reports are written by real people based on their actual experiences (both good and bad), they'll have more credibility than an ad in a magazine or on TV. After reading a good trip report, I want to ride the train and I would image that a lot of other people would as well.
I think that’s what people mean when referring to “vloggers”
 
Most of the vlogger content I see leaves out anything overtly negative. It shows the trains and stations which is nice, but it does not show how the staff treat customers, especially how long distance staff treat new and infrequent passengers. That kind of sanitizing can promote an expectation that Amtrak will struggle to meet. I was a big Amtrak booster for years and while I could get people to ride Amtrak once I could never get them to keep riding after they had interacted with the staff. Years later friends and family can still quote Amtrak staff reacting dismissively to questions and requests they felt were beneath them. That is not to say they are any worse than US flight attendants, but you really notice and remember attitudes when you spend more time reaching your destination.
 
I think that’s what people mean when referring to “vloggers”
That was a new term to me, but then again, I'm a senior and don't visit or participate in the various on-line social media chat groups (other than AU). I would image that a lot of other people my age don't keep up with the vloggers either and therefore are missing out on rail travel trip reports that might otherwise influence them to use the train for their long-distance travel.
 
That was a new term to me, but then again, I'm a senior and don't visit or participate in the various on-line social media chat groups (other than AU). I would image that a lot of other people my age don't keep up with the vloggers either and therefore are missing out on rail travel trip reports that might otherwise influence them to use the train for their long-distance travel.
Generally speaking, seniors are perhaps the only age group in this country that still remember when train travel was a significant part of public consciousness.
Perhaps I’m going out on a limb here, but I feel that seniors are not the age group to be advocating to for the biggest bang for buck.
 
Generally speaking, seniors are perhaps the only age group in this country that still remember when train travel was a significant part of public consciousness.
Perhaps I’m going out on a limb here, but I feel that seniors are not the age group to be advocating to for the biggest bang for buck.
I agree that many seniors can still recall (and will have fond memories) of traveling by train in pre-Amtrak days when it was still a deluxe experience. Many of these same seniors now have the financial resources to afford bedroom and roomette accommodations on Amtrak LD trains so some effort should be made to reach out to them.
 
I agree that many seniors can still recall (and will have fond memories) of traveling by train in pre-Amtrak days when it was still a deluxe experience.
I'm a senior, and I did a lot of train travel in pre-Amtrak days. While I enjoyed it a lot, I would never call any of my rides a "deluxe experience."
 
Generally speaking, seniors are perhaps the only age group in this country that still remember when train travel was a significant part of public consciousness.
Perhaps I’m going out on a limb here, but I feel that seniors are not the age group to be advocating to for the biggest bang for buck.
The "biggest bang for the buck" is reliable service that arrives and departs on time, predictable service, and more frequent trains with higher capacities. Deluxe accommodations are really not needed. The point of a government-supported service like Amtrak is to increase its ridership and market share, not to maximize their revenue with limited service. The idea is to take as many cars as possible off the road, not make money by offering less. This seems to be a hidden flaw in the computerized demand pricing. A manager can be seduced by the idea that with strategic pricing they can make more money by offering less service. Amtrak needs to be run to maximize market share, and really high fares, even for a deluxe service that's a decent value proposition, is not the way to do it.
 
The "biggest bang for the buck" is reliable service that arrives and departs on time, predictable service, and more frequent trains with higher capacities. Deluxe accommodations are really not needed. The point of a government-supported service like Amtrak is to increase its ridership and market share, not to maximize their revenue with limited service. The idea is to take as many cars as possible off the road, not make money by offering less. This seems to be a hidden flaw in the computerized demand pricing. A manager can be seduced by the idea that with strategic pricing they can make more money by offering less service. Amtrak needs to be run to maximize market share, and really high fares, even for a deluxe service that's a decent value proposition, is not the way to do it.
You either misread, or misused my quoted text.
"biggest bang for the buck" was in reference to which generational group would be most worthwhile advertising to. It has nothing to do with actual service provided.
 
You either misread, or misused my quoted text.
"biggest bang for the buck" was in reference to which generational group would be most worthwhile advertising to. It has nothing to do with actual service provided.
I was responding to the idea, sometimes expressed by people here as well as Amtrak itself, that different generational groups have different ideas about what's most important to them in selecting a mode of transportation.

Your comment that seniors still remember when train travel was a significant part of public consciousness really only applies to a rapidly diminishing cohort of older seniors. By the 1960s outside of the Northeast or a few other corridor routes, very few people rode trains or thought of doing so as a reliable alternative to driving, flying or even taking the bus. So most seniors nowadays don't really remember the golden age (whenever that was) of train travel. Thus, Amtrak would get as much of a bang for the buck advertising to 60 and 70 somethings as they would to younger people. But the most important thing is to offer a good reliable service. My sister's horrible ride from Philly to Chicago on a Penn Central secondary train circa 1970 probably did more to discourage rail travel by her friends (after she talked about her trip) than all the marketing by Amtrak advertising whizzes could do to encourage it. Nowadays, there's a lot more interest in riding trains than there was 50-60 years ago, but the first thing Amtrak needs to do is run more of them with larger capacities.
 
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