1/17 #7 delay

[Exiled in Express]

Onboard right now in the CP yard east of Saint Paul. Train hasn't moved in 90 minutes, OBS officially knows nothing, operating crew is outside. Anyone know what is going on?

 

[Exiled in Express]

I got creative and called the station, air suppy problem of some sort. They were quite surprised to learn there were no onboard announcements made.

 

[MrEd]

I don't think they normally announce anything at night. Have a good trip.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

They wouldn't announce anything after 10PM baring an emergency. You're on your way now, and with clear weather ahead you might make up an hour of that time if you're lucky.

 

[Exiled in Express]

Trained pulled in to MSP at 1:20AM, just under 3 hours down. No apologies or explanation was offered by the conductors or station staff. The problem began prior to 10PM so an announcement could have been made without breaking that quiet rule. Collected my luggage and after waiting for taxis to reappear made it home by 230AM.

The train was running at or ahead of schedule all the way to Red Wing and beyond. The last 10 miles into Saint Paul took 4 hours though.

I will contact customer relations on this, problems happen and I knew that all too well when I bought the ticket, how Amtrak handled the problem was unacceptable.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

What did you expect them to do? Make an announcement at the stroke of ten that "Folks we're going to be delayed for an undetermined amount of time and not allowed to update you over the intercom so just sit tight", that would go over real well. Just sit back and try and take a nap.

You didn't miss a connection, you got to your destination, your out not a single penny because you were forced to sit still.

If Amtrak gives you a voucher, which they likely will, THAT is what's unacceptable.

 

[amtrakwolverine]

i don't care if its the middle of the night i want to know why we are stopped for 2 hours not going anywhere and without HEP. When they changed the brake hose on the TE going to the stl gathering they had to cut the HEP power.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

They had HEP. They were in warm coaches, had food and water, they weren't stranded. They just didn't move for 2.5 hours...

 

[A.J.]

i'm sorry, but complaining every time a train is late is going a bit too far. i've taken several cross-country trips and at some point or another, you're going to be delayed. sometimes you make up the time, sometimes not. because it was during the night, you wouldn't have heard any announcements. had you missed a connection, amtrak certainly would have assisted you, whether it meant bussing, a different train, or even putting you up in a hotel for a night. i honestly think that 3 hours is not that big of a deal, especially on a train that, in the winter, is frequently behind schedule. perhaps you should look on the bright side and look at it this way: you got to your destination, you didn't have to sit on a cold train with no food, and it could have been a hell of a lot worse.

 

[amtrakwolverine]

They had HEP. They were in warm coaches, had food and water, they weren't stranded. They just didn't move for 2.5 hours...

If the had HEP while replacing a brake hose why did they cut it off when we were on the Texas eagle for the STL gathering. We didn't even make it out of the station tunnel.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

They had HEP. They were in warm coaches, had food and water, they weren't stranded. They just didn't move for 2.5 hours...

If the had HEP while replacing a brake hose why did they cut it off when we were on the texas eagle for the STL gathering. We didn't even make it out of the station tunnel.

An "air supply problem" could be anything, including wrong. I don't know what happened, all I know is they weren't stranded without HEP for any extended period of time.

How do I know this? OP didn't complain about it, complained about trivial things, but nothing of substance beyond the inconvenience of a delay and lack of information.

 

[amtrakwolverine]

on the TE it was a air hose problem. The hose got snagged on a frog and ripped off. We delayed the CZ as we were blocking most of the tracks. Ok back on topic.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Relevance?

 

[EB_OBS]

If anyone needs to know so desperately why the train is stopped, when it's the middle of the night, then get up and go to the dining car or lounge car and look for the conductor. Unless they are outside inspecting the train then one of the conductors is usually in either the diner or lounge at night.

I can assure you that the majority of passengers DO NOT WANT announcements made at night if it isn't an emergency. If you just have to know what's going on, go find a conductor without disturbing everyone else on the train.

 

[PRR 60]

If anyone needs to know so desperately why the train is stopped, when it's the middle of the night, then get up and go to the dining car or lounge car and look for the conductor. Unless they are outside inspecting the train then one of the conductors is usually in either the diner or lounge at night.

I can assure you that the majority of passengers DO NOT WANT announcements made at night if it isn't an emergency. If you just have to know what's going on, go find a conductor without disturbing everyone else on the train.

The EB carries a significant number of passengers destined for MSP. To those folks, 10pm or even 11pm is not "the middle of the night." They expected to be in MSP by then and may have people meeting them or expecting them home. They have a reason to wonder what is going on and suggesting they should be content with being warm is simply nonsense. There has to be some middle ground between not saying a word and a PA announcement throughout the train. People who need to know the status should be given that information without having to hunt down the conductor themselves.

 

[Exiled in Express]

My first two posts were written onboard and inquisitive, I understand delay happen. It has happened in the past and it will happen in the future. However anytime a delay of more than 20 minutes has occurred in the past an explanation has been proactively offered, this includes Amtrak and airlines.

The EB carries a significant number of passengers destined for MSP. To those folks, 10pm or even 11pm is not "the middle of the night." They expected to be in MSP by then and may have people meeting them or expecting them home. They have a reason to wonder what is going on and suggesting they should be content with being warm is simply nonsense. There has to be some middle ground between not saying a word and a PA announcement throughout the train so people who need to know the status can find out without having to hunt down the conductor.

Thank you for reassuring me I did not have unreasonable expectations. The train rolled to a stop at 920PM or so allowing plenty of time for an initial announcement and a followup before the 10PM curfew. Interestingly this curfew did not stop the diner staff from making a breakfast hours announcement pat then. As I mentioned in my first post the conductors were outside examining the problem thus not available for questions.

The MSP passengers are grouped together, usually in the PDX coaches, to allow a block of seats to open upon arrivial. An announcement could have been made in these cars only to accomodate the quiet hours. As an announcement was not made, the passengers were feeding off of each other's frustration making these coaches and the lounge inhospitable toward sleep.

The lack of explanation or time estimate did indeed incur additional costs, ALC_Rail_Writer. As we were ontime or better through Red Wing I fully planned on taking the bus home. Had there been an announced delay I could have called a friend to arrange an after hours pickup, as this was not done and I was not going to have them wait hours on end, thus a taxi was required. Due to the above commotion preventing sleep, I also had to take an additional half day of vacation as I was unfit for work.

 

[Ryan]

If anyone needs to know so desperately why the train is stopped, when it's the middle of the night, then get up and go to the dining car or lounge car and look for the conductor. Unless they are outside inspecting the train then one of the conductors is usually in either the diner or lounge at night.

I can assure you that the majority of passengers DO NOT WANT announcements made at night if it isn't an emergency. If you just have to know what's going on, go find a conductor without disturbing everyone else on the train.

Or even better, carry a scanner and get all the information available firsthand.

 

[PennCentralFan]

I understand the frustration. Can you imagine how you would feel if your final destination is St. Paul and you're stuck in a yard in St. Paul? I mean some of those passengers could get off the train and walked home. I live in Saint Paul and I can tell you I would share the OP frustration. Put yourself in that situation. I agree that the conductor should have said something to the St. Paul passengers. I actually think amtrak should have considered chartering a bus and picking the St. Paul folks up in the yard and busing them to the station. Yes I know walking through a rail yard is dangerous with luggage and at night and so won't happen, but in the least they deserved an explanation.

 

[PaulM]

If Amtrak gives you a voucher, which they likely will, THAT is what's unacceptable.

I disagree here specifically because this appeared to be an equipment problem. Over the last couple of years, I noticed a definite improvement on board service quality, but a troubling increase in equipment reliability problems.

On the first 4 legs of am 8 leg trip, I've experienced a DL/CCC subbing for a diner on the CZ, the DL out of commission so we got to sample the snack bar offerings for supper, swapping engines in Denver because of snow (no big blizzard), grill out of service on CZ diner, SSL subbing for the PPC. In fact a ride on the PSL was the only defect free trip.

When the cost of vouchers exceed the cost of preventive maintenance, then we will begin to see an improvement.

 

[EB_OBS]

If anyone needs to know so desperately why the train is stopped, when it's the middle of the night, then get up and go to the dining car or lounge car and look for the conductor. Unless they are outside inspecting the train then one of the conductors is usually in either the diner or lounge at night.

I can assure you that the majority of passengers DO NOT WANT announcements made at night if it isn't an emergency. If you just have to know what's going on, go find a conductor without disturbing everyone else on the train.

The EB carries a significant number of passengers destined for MSP. To those folks, 10pm or even 11pm is not "the middle of the night." They expected to be in MSP by then and may have people meeting them or expecting them home. They have a reason to wonder what is going on and suggesting they should be content with being warm is simply nonsense. There has to be some middle ground between not saying a word and a PA announcement throughout the train. People who need to know the status should be given that information without having to hunt down the conductor themselves.

Coming into MSP every attendant on the train is up and ready for arrival into the station. It's even likely that the diner staff is still working and up as they have work to do at MSP as well as the attendants. Finding an Amtrak employee to ask what's going on is quite possible.

In this situation the train had mechanical problems and the conductors both were outside working to get the train moving again. The OBS crew does not have radios to speak with the conductors so they don't know what's wrong either or how long it may take, which by the way neither do the conductors. They work on the problem until they get it fixed. Amtrak's policy is that PA announcements are not made after 10pm. I counsel and coach LSAs that make announcements after 10pm whenever I hear them do it.

I looked at the manifest for this train and I see 10 sleeping car passengers and 90 coach passenger were destined for MSP. I agree that's a lot of people left unsure of what's going on with the delay and when they'll arrive into the station. If I had been on board, as a supervisor, I would be somewhat knowledgeable or able to find out something from the conductors and walk thru the train speaking with people quietly. I would still not have made any PA announcements. The regular OBS crew can't and would not attempt to get off the train and disturb the conductors busily trying to get the train moving again. I could/would have. Possibly a perfect example of why Amtrak needs Chiefs on the trains again.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

If Amtrak gives you a voucher, which they likely will, THAT is what's unacceptable.

I disagree here specifically because this appeared to be an equipment problem. Over the last couple of years, I noticed a definite improvement on board service quality, but a troubling increase in equipment reliability problems.

On the first 4 legs of am 8 leg trip, I've experienced a DL/CCC subbing for a diner on the CZ, the DL out of commission so we got to sample the snack bar offerings for supper, swapping engines in Denver because of snow (no big blizzard), grill out of service on CZ diner, SSL subbing for the PPC. In fact a ride on the PSL was the only defect free trip.

When the cost of vouchers exceed the cost of preventive maintenance, then we will begin to see an improvement.

Who says this was a reliability problem? Even when things are new, in winter, things break down.

 

[PaulM]

Over the last couple of years, I noticed a definite improvement on board service quality, but a troubling increase in equipment reliability problems.

Who says this was a reliability problem? Even when things are new, in winter, things break down.

I admit I've been out of the game for quite a while; but I was a statistician in a prior incarnation. The principal measure of something's reliability is the mean time to failure, or equivalently the number of failures per unit time. I'm just saying that it seems to me that by this definition, reliability has been going down.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

You can't expect Amtrak to buy new stuff every few years... The P42s are just about middle aged, but nowhere near retirement, and the Superliners will still be on the road for awhile. There is nothing wrong with Amtraks use of it's gear, accidents happen. Brake hoses, if that was thhe problem, could have failed for a variety of reasons that have nothing to do with age. Iced over, hit by debris, ect.