2007 Spring Timetable

[Mike]

Yesterday,I got a copy of Amtrak's 2007 Spring Timetable. On the page with the Sunset Limited timetable,it displayed the stops east of New Orleans with the notation about damage from Katrina. If Amtrak plans to kill the eastern portion of the Sunset,why even have the eastern stops listed along with the Katrina notation.

 

[Guest]

Maybe Amtrak does not have "plans to kill the eastern portion of the Sunset."

 

[AmtrakWPK]

I suspect the strategy of keeping the route officially available to them (not letting their right to use it on the freight RR's tracks, per the original setup of Amtrak, expire) by using the specious excuse of hurricane damage, while holding the train hostage and trying to extort money from the affected States - MS, AL, FL, is probably the reason.

 

[rtabern]

Yesterday,I got a copy of Amtrak's 2007 Spring Timetable. On the page with the Sunset Limited timetable,it displayed the stops east of New Orleans with the notation about damage from Katrina. If Amtrak plans to kill the eastern portion of the Sunset,why even have the eastern stops listed along with the Katrina notation.

Awww... how did you get your hands on it already? I was at Chicago Union Station and asked about 4 people and they said they weren't available. The passenger services lady said the only changes were 2 Michigan trains and the Lake Shore.

 

[jphjaxfl]

There have been no 180 day notices posted at stations east of New Orleans regarding discontinuance of Amtrak service. It would seem that they would have to post these inorder to remove the stations from the timetable. If the states effected, NARP and some others with influance would file a lawsuit against Amtrak because service has not been restored, it would force Amtrak to either restore service or post 180 day discontinuance notices. Back when private railroads were operating passenger trains, there were several instances in which organizations filed lawsuits against the railroads and courts would require service to be continued. The railroad would usually take the discontinuance to a higher court and eventually win and discontinue the passenger train, but sometimes the service continued a year or two after the railroad's orginal discontinuance date. One situation even went to the Supreme Court before the train was allowed by the court to be discontinued.

 

[PRR 60]

There have been no 180 day notices posted at stations east of New Orleans regarding discontinuance of Amtrak service. It would seem that they would have to post these inorder to remove the stations from the timetable. If the states effected, NARP and some others with influance would file a lawsuit against Amtrak because service has not been restored, it would force Amtrak to either restore service or post 180 day discontinuance notices. Back when private railroads were operating passenger trains, there were several instances in which organizations filed lawsuits against the railroads and courts would require service to be continued. The railroad would usually take the discontinuance to a higher court and eventually win and discontinue the passenger train, but sometimes the service continued a year or two after the railroad's orginal discontinuance date. One situation even went to the Supreme Court before the train was allowed by the court to be discontinued.

Amtrak has not posted the 180-day notices in deference to the states and to permit the states to come up with funding to restore service east of NOL (something that Amtrak has no intention of doing as a 100% Amtrak-funded route). If the states want to press the issue, Amtrak will be simply post the notices in accordance with the letter of then law. The states will then have 180 days to either come up with funding or lose the route. If no one ponies up by the 180 expiration, then the route is abandoned. Once the route is abandoned by Amtrak, CSX can, and almost certainly will. require capacity enhancements before any service can be restored.
I cannot help but compare this situation to what the former Amtrak leadership did to the Three Rivers. In that case Amtrak posted the 180-day discontinuance notices without telling anyone what was about to happen, and did so immediately after the state budgets had been finalized and passed leaving very little financial wiggle room. They then told the states to pay $2 million to keep the service "or else". The "or else" won, and the Three Rivers went the way of the Broadway Limited. In this case, Amtrak is keeping the door open as long as it can.

 

[Mike]

Yesterday,I got a copy of Amtrak's 2007 Spring Timetable. On the page with the Sunset Limited timetable,it displayed the stops east of New Orleans with the notation about damage from Katrina. If Amtrak plans to kill the eastern portion of the Sunset,why even have the eastern stops listed along with the Katrina notation.

Awww... how did you get your hands on it already? I was at Chicago Union Station and asked about 4 people and they said they weren't available. The passenger services lady said the only changes were 2 Michigan trains and the Lake Shore.

I got it at the Greensboro Amtrak Station

 

[battalion51]

I'm not quite sure how many times we'e gone over this topic in about the last two years, but here it goes again. If they discontinue the train due to heavy infrastructure damage (as is what happened in this case) they are not required by law to post 180 day notices. That's it. Clean and simple.

Yes I do realize that the tracks are in better shape than they've ever been, and that trains have been running to New Orleans for a long time now (I live right by the main line), but there is still more involved. For the train to come back a large number of stations need repair (that does fall under the infrastructure category), and you also have to rehire crews and bring back people that were displaced by the discontinuation, retrain and qualify them, etc. This is not an overnight process by any stretch of the mind, and also one that's not likely to occur unless the states step forward to pay for it, not just push the issue.

 

[AmtrakWPK]

If Okeechobee can be a station stop, just exactly what do they have to "repair" in order to have the train stop? There is NOTHING at Okeechobee but a flat space of ground next to a building that is falling apart. If that building (like the one that was condemned at the old SFD stop) got hit by a hurricane or tornado, it would probably do several thousand dollars' worth of IMPROVEMENTS. If THAT can be a station stop, they have NO excuses on Sunset. If they want to build or rebuild or repair something, FINE, but they cannot legitimately use that as an excuse for not resuming Sunset given the fact that other "station stops" like Okeechobee are working just fine elsewhere in the system, and there is no issue whatsoever about the Sunset's track being fully repaired.

They haven't resumed Sunset because they are trying to extort money from MS, AL, and FL before they will restore the NATIONAL passenger rail system, and that is simply indefensible and unconscionable. Sunset is not a corridor train, it's a national system connector, the southern intercontinental route. Holding it hostage for ransom is disgusting and ought to get management out in the street with the firm imprint of a boot in it's backside...

 

[Guest]

Yesterday,I got a copy of Amtrak's 2007 Spring Timetable. On the page with the Sunset Limited timetable,it displayed the stops east of New Orleans with the notation about damage from Katrina. If Amtrak plans to kill the eastern portion of the Sunset,why even have the eastern stops listed along with the Katrina notation.

just picked a copy here in austin, and immediately looked to see if the note on service east of NOL on the sunset mentioned katrina. but my copy doesn't say anything about katrina at all; in fact, here is what it says:

"the sunset limited service between orlando and new orleans has been suspended. future service has not been determined."

it mentions this on page 90 (the schedule for the sunset) and on page 5. if this is so, it would appear amtrak is publicly eschewing the katrina excuse outright, and has decided to be upfront about it not being certain service will be resumed at all. mike: does your copy still mention 'infrastructure damage' from katrina? if so, i wonder if there are two printings of the timetable.

-- eliyahu

austin, tx

 

[eliyahu]

just picked a copy here in austin, and immediately looked to see if the note on service east of NOL on the sunset mentioned katrina. but my copy doesn't say anything about katrina at all; in fact, here is what it says:
"the sunset limited service between orlando and new orleans has been suspended. future service has not been determined."

i should also add to the above post that the in-florida stations for the sunset limited no longer appears in the schedules for 'atlantic coast service' (on pages 64-65) as they have in past timetables. as an aside, i must say that this timetable is of an excellent quality compared with recent printings. they seem to have spent a bit more and are using 'full-color' graphics throughout. once you pick up a copy, you'll notice the difference.

-- eliyahu

austin, tx

 

[Railbender]

I double that nod toward a higher quality timetable. The paper is higher quality than basic newsprint. The color. The use of graphics, "ads", photos...very quality piece...the nicest I have seen in years.

 

[Mike]

Yesterday,I got a copy of Amtrak's 2007 Spring Timetable. On the page with the Sunset Limited timetable,it displayed the stops east of New Orleans with the notation about damage from Katrina. If Amtrak plans to kill the eastern portion of the Sunset,why even have the eastern stops listed along with the Katrina notation.

just picked a copy here in austin, and immediately looked to see if the note on service east of NOL on the sunset mentioned katrina. but my copy doesn't say anything about katrina at all; in fact, here is what it says:

"the sunset limited service between orlando and new orleans has been suspended. future service has not been determined."

it mentions this on page 90 (the schedule for the sunset) and on page 5. if this is so, it would appear amtrak is publicly eschewing the katrina excuse outright, and has decided to be upfront about it not being certain service will be resumed at all. mike: does your copy still mention 'infrastructure damage' from katrina? if so, i wonder if there are two printings of the timetable.

-- eliyahu

austin, tx

I went back to look,now that you mention it,Katrina was not mentioned specifically

 

[frj1983]

Darn,

I was in Chicago on Saturday and all they had out were the old schedules. I think I'll swing past tomorrow and see if any new ones are out! From what everyone has been saying here, I'm looking forward to seeing it!

 

[MrFSS]

I just ordered one on Amtrak's web site. Hope they send the new one and not the Winter one!

 

[BobWeaver]

I keep checking the "Schedules" tab on Amtrak.com to see if the "effective" date has changed for any of the routes aside from the Illinois / Missouri Services and Keystone Services. I would think that they would post these new schedules on the website at or around the same time that they change out the schedules in the stations, so when they do change the schedules on the website, I know that I'll have a better chance of getting a new one at the station!

 

[Joe]

I picked up a new copy of the Spring/Summer 2007 timetable at the Pittsburgh, Pa. station yesterday.

Joe

 

[Trogdor]

For those that *really* want to see the new schedules:

http://www.amtrak.com/timetable/apr07/

 

[frj1983]

Interesting that the Amtrak Website still has the winter schedule up!

When does the new schedule take effect?

 

[BobWeaver]

The new ones take effect April 2.

 

[Amtrak OBS Gone Freight]

I'm not quite sure how many times we'e gone over this topic in about the last two years, but here it goes again. If they discontinue the train due to heavy infrastructure damage (as is what happened in this case) they are not required by law to post 180 day notices. That's it. Clean and simple.

That is because the train is TECHNICALLY NOT discontinued! The service is "suspended!" If a discontinuation of the route is proposed, then 180 day notices are required for the portion affected! The Sunset route itself is in service, with the portion East of NOL in "suspension," not "discontinued!" Sorry about the technicalities, but that's actually the case. Clean and simple! OBS...

 

[AmtrakWPK]

And it is a critically important distinction to the National network. If it's discontinued, they lose their rights to start running it again whenever they give up trying to extort money from the affected states, or if their hostage-taking works and they get their money, whatever. If it's just "suspended" then they can decide to resume service and they still have the legal right to do so. This is not a technicality, it is a huge difference.

 

[Superliner Diner]

One item of interest with the new timetable:

The Missouri services and the Illinois (Lincoln) services have been severed. The Ann Rutledge name only applies to its cross-Missouri portion, Trains 313 and 314. That train, as well as the Mules (Trains 311 and 316) has been totally rescheduled.

This is due to trackwork taking place along the line in Missouri.

It is no longer possible to take a train in a single day from Missouri points west of St. Louis to points in Illinois, including Chicago. Both eastbound trains across Missouri arrive in St. Louis after the last Lincoln Service train has departed. One can stay overnight in STL and continue north the next morning.

The southbound to westbound move is still possible with Lincoln Service 303 to the Ann Rutledge 313, but there is a layover in STL and one must change trains.

The connections in both directions between the Mules and the City of New Orleans thruway bus (8358/8359) in STL are also broken. However with a long layover the trip can still be accomplished with the Ann Rutledge trains.