Acela advertising wraps

[darien-l]

Saw this posted on Flyertalk and Railroad.net, and thought it was worth mentioning here. How do people feel about covering the Acelas in advertising wraps? The latest one looks like this:

http://railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=332945&nseq=0

http://i29.tinypic.com/14178qr.jpg

http://i28.tinypic.com/35bfupu.jpg

Here's another one from a couple of years back: http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=213304

Personally, if I shelled out big bucks for first class service on the Acela and found the cabin dark and the view blurry because of one of these things, I'd be pretty upset. Plus, it just looks tacky and detracts from the classy image of the Acela.

 

[john h]

I think from the inside you should still be able to see out without a blur

But according to this article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrap_advertising this is illegal in new york city, I wonder if that applies to Trains

 

[Acela150]

Saw this posted on Flyertalk and Railroad.net, and thought it was worth mentioning here. How do people feel about covering the Acelas in advertising wraps? The latest one looks like this:

http://railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=332945&nseq=0

http://i29.tinypic.com/14178qr.jpg

http://i28.tinypic.com/35bfupu.jpg

Here's another one from a couple of years back: http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=213304

Personally, if I shelled out big bucks for first class service on the Acela and found the cabin dark and the view blurry because of one of these things, I'd be pretty upset. Plus, it just looks tacky and detracts from the classy image of the Acela.

It's normal. A decent amount of riders complained about the same issue back in 07' when Amtrak put the History Channel's 1968 wrappings on an Acela set. Now they say it shouldn't be an issue with sightseeing. I will be on 2164 in a few weeks. If the set is still wrapped and I happen to get lucky and ride it I'll give you my opinions on it. But the chances are 1 in 20.

Steve

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Not to the Amtrak trains, obviously.

 

[darien-l]

I think from the inside you should still be able to see out without a blur

I've been inside buses with wrap advertising, and both the visibility out the window and the amount of light in the interior is significantly reduced. The wrap over the windows is essentially a finely perforated vinyl sheet, so yes, you can see out because of the holes, but it's not nearly the same as looking through unobstructed glass.

 

[battalion51]

I think the ban in NYC is mostly to reduce the rolling billboard that cars, trucks, and vans can turn into which would add to the traffic in Manhattan that just isn't necessary. Obviously with the trains being well below street level inside Manhattan that issue is moot.

 

[George Harris]

NO!! These are supposed to be premium services, not city buses.

 

[jis]

Oh No! Not again! Time to start another letter writing campaign to Amtrak I suppose.

This clearly illustrates how clueless the marketing people at Amtrak still are about why people ride the Acela They still have the fantasy because it saves people 20 mins.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

It's about class.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Hmm. I'd be ok with it if they just left the windows alone. In Japan the subways are full of ads, but the high-speed trains are not. I would like to pretend we could do the same here, but I think we all know that Amtrak needs all the help it can get. Cut out holes for the windows and I'm OK with it.

 

[TVRM610]

Hmm. I'd be ok with it if they just left the windows alone. In Japan the subways are full of ads, but the high-speed trains are not. I would like to pretend we could do the same here, but I think we all know that Amtrak needs all the help it can get. Cut out holes for the windows and I'm OK with it.

EXACTLY! I have no problem with advertising on trains... but why oh why people do you cover the windows too? And yes.. I've ridden trains and busses with these wraps and it greatly obstructs the view.

 

[haolerider]

Oh No! Not again! Time to start another letter writing campaign to Amtrak I suppose.

This clearly illustrates how clueless the marketing people at Amtrak still are about why people ride the Acela They still have the fantasy because it saves people 20 mins.

I hate to tell you ,but very few people riding Acela are looking out the window. They are business people working on laptop, cell phones and talking to each other. Rail fans want to look out the window, but most Acela passengers could care less. Plus, this is money for Amtrak and I believe they will get the idea that covering the windows is not a great idea, no matter who is riding.

 

[PRR 60]

I believe the wrapped Acela set is at least in part compensation to TLC and Buddy Valastro for participation at the National Train Day kick-off events at Penn Station, New York on May 7. It was a cross-promotion deal, with the "Cake Boss" making a splash (not literally) at NYP, and the wrap being Amtrak's end of the bargain. If you assume the application of the wrap is made at no cost to Amtrak (and I believe it is), then they got a "celebrity" (albeit, a "B" lister) and some TV publicity for NTD for free. Whether that is worth making a poor, unsuspecting Acela set look like a rolling pastry shop is another story.

 

[acelafan]

Hmm. I'd be ok with it if they just left the windows alone. In Japan the subways are full of ads, but the high-speed trains are not. I would like to pretend we could do the same here, but I think we all know that Amtrak needs all the help it can get. Cut out holes for the windows and I'm OK with it.

I'm with you. I don't like it, but if it helps Amtrak financially then so be it. But I wouldn't want to see the NE Regionals wrapped up, too.

 

[jis]

I hate to tell you ,but very few people riding Acela are looking out the window. They are business people working on laptop, cell phones and talking to each other. Rail fans want to look out the window, but most Acela passengers could care less. Plus, this is money for Amtrak and I believe they will get the idea that covering the windows is not a great idea, no matter who is riding.

Just telling me based on nothing does not necessarily make the statement true. You come to this conclusion about who does or does not look out the window exactly based on what? A survey of riders perhaps that you can cite?

Frankly though I cannot cite a survey myself, I just have my doubts. I do travel on the Acelas quite a bit on business as well as on pleasure trips. Several of the people that I work with are these alleged business people who travel by Acelas - Wall Street types, who don't give a rats ass about whether the Acela is an electric or a diesel or runs on Kryptonite and they could not tell the gauge of the track it runs on or what ACSES is, and it is they that were moaning and groaning to me. Your belief that only railfans want to look out the window is certainly quite disconnected from reality.

How much would the advertising revenue be decreased if the windows were spared? Would the advertiser really care?

In short I believe it is a not fully thought out decision by Amtrak management.

Time to shoot off an email to Mr. Fremeaux I guess. Sigh... But at least he does listen quite often when a cogent argument is made to him. So we'll see.

 

[WMJ_NJ]

In case anyone's interested, Buddy will be making an Amtrak themed cake on the show. 9PM on Monday August 9th on TLC.

Bill

 

[Edgefan]

Have scrimped and saved for our First Acela round-trip, in first class no less, this October. I will be greatly disappointed if my wife and I are the 1 in 20. Not only from the diminished view, but from the degraded appearance (to me) of the consist. I first saw a thumbnail of this wrap on another site and thought that somehow it had been hit by vandals. :blink:

 

[Eric S]

I would grudgingly accept it as long as it did not cover windows. However, seeing as it does, I find it quite objectionable. I ride public transit (primarly buses, but rail in "other" cities as well) and find that such advertising, when it covers windows, greatly degrades the general riding experience, even along streets that I would typically see 2+ times a day.

 

[haolerider]

I hate to tell you ,but very few people riding Acela are looking out the window. They are business people working on laptop, cell phones and talking to each other. Rail fans want to look out the window, but most Acela passengers could care less. Plus, this is money for Amtrak and I believe they will get the idea that covering the windows is not a great idea, no matter who is riding.

Just telling me based on nothing does not necessarily make the statement true. You come to this conclusion about who does or does not look out the window exactly based on what? A survey of riders perhaps that you can cite?

Frankly though I cannot cite a survey myself, I just have my doubts. I do travel on the Acelas quite a bit on business as well as on pleasure trips. Several of the people that I work with are these alleged business people who travel by Acelas - Wall Street types, who don't give a rats ass about whether the Acela is an electric or a diesel or runs on Kryptonite and they could not tell the gauge of the track it runs on or what ACSES is, and it is they that were moaning and groaning to me. Your belief that only railfans want to look out the window is certainly quite disconnected from reality.

How much would the advertising revenue be decreased if the windows were spared? Would the advertiser really care?

In short I believe it is a not fully thought out decision by Amtrak management.

Time to shoot off an email to Mr. Fremeaux I guess. Sigh... But at least he does listen quite often when a cogent argument is made to him. So we'll see.

I come to that conclusion based on approximately 100 round trips on Acela. No survey, no interviews, just common sense observation.

Having said that, it is possible to do a wrap without covering the windows, as was done on the Adirondack last year during leaf season - not a difficult decision to make, since passengers are riding that train to look out the windows!

 

[jis]

I come to that conclusion based on approximately 100 round trips on Acela. No survey, no interviews, just common sense observation.

Having said that, it is possible to do a wrap without covering the windows, as was done on the Adirondack last year during leaf season - not a difficult decision to make, since passengers are riding that train to look out the windows!

Ah OK. Fair enough. At the end of it all, my comments are based on one enthusiastic user of Acela service, who happens to be a business traveler in addition to being a rail advocate, more than a fan. In addition it is also based on comments made by a few of his Wall Street friends and at least two CEOs who travel Boston - New York quite often and are good friends of his, expressing a certain displeasure.

BTW, you are correct in surmising that an enthusiastic user of Acelas on a regular basis who is also a railfan/advocate, who will generally spring for Acelas rather than travel by Regionals (or Boltbus for that matter), is a rare breed. Railfans generally come up with lengthy arguments about why the fare difference between Regionals and Acelas is not worth it, and if they had their choice they'd probably pick an open flatcar I suppose. But as you say some of us do have work to do too. And while working and thinking, it is nice to have something to see instead of the backside of window dressings.

Acela provides an incredibly good combination of work environment, leisure, comfort and speed, which uniquely differentiates it from air travel. The window dressing diminishes the leisure aspect and the quality of work environment, considerably. Think the difference between a cube with no windows and the corner office. Why do people like offices with windows?

 

[spacecadet]

Hmm. I'd be ok with it if they just left the windows alone. In Japan the subways are full of ads, but the high-speed trains are not.

I wouldn't even say the subways are "full of" ads; a few trains on a couple of lines have them. I didn't see a single one with a wrap when I was there last month, and we rode multiple subway lines every day. More NYC subway trains have them than Tokyo subway trains, but the NYCTA has the good sense not to cover the windows (and that's on trains running underground!).

I said this on the railroad.net forum, but the reason why you don't see this more is that these ad campaigns don't work. They work for the advertiser but it's rarely worth it from the other side. It's only done to give the appearance that everything is being done to try to raise revenue. But the reality is the amount of revenue raised by this kind of thing is almost always a pittance, and hardly worth prostituting your own brand for. Amtrak has spent probably hundreds of millions trying to promote the Acela Express name, and now they're going to cover it up for a few bucks? It's asinine. Only a government agency would do that, because it makes the clueless lawmakers who are in charge of the funding think they're making an effort.

If Amtrak is serious about doing this kind of thing, then they should look at what some of the Japanese airlines do. They'll do cross-promotional deals with brands that appeal to whatever audience they happen to be trying to attract - usually kids (who then beg their parents to take them somewhere on the plane). They'll stick a giant Pokemon decal or something on their plane, and in return Nintendo will promote ANA on their web site or whatever. But they never completely cover up the ANA branding - that would just be stupid.

 

[TVRM610]

Oh No! Not again! Time to start another letter writing campaign to Amtrak I suppose.

This clearly illustrates how clueless the marketing people at Amtrak still are about why people ride the Acela They still have the fantasy because it saves people 20 mins.

I hate to tell you ,but very few people riding Acela are looking out the window. They are business people working on laptop, cell phones and talking to each other. Rail fans want to look out the window, but most Acela passengers could care less. Plus, this is money for Amtrak and I believe they will get the idea that covering the windows is not a great idea, no matter who is riding.

I hate to tell you... but just because I'm working on a laptop or talking to someone (both of which I do when riding the train) does not mean I do not enjoy looking out a clear window. In all honesty, I have paid the difference to ride the Acela just because of the larger windows then on the Regional. Now you can call me a "fan" if you'd like.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I wouldn't even say the subways are "full of" ads; a few trains on a couple of lines have them.

Well, from my perspective they are full of ads, so much so that I had to lower my head to avoid impacting them when boarding and disembarking. While a full train wrap is not exactly routine they do exist and there are often ads along the outside and along station areas. They even have some tunnels with glowing ads that follow the train through otherwise dark expanse. Or at least that's how it was from 2004 through 2007. If all of that has changed since then it's news to me.

 

[George Harris]

I wouldn't even say the subways are "full of" ads; a few trains on a couple of lines have them.

Well, from my perspective they are full of ads, so much so that I had to lower my head to avoid impacting them when boarding and disembarking. While a full train wrap is not exactly routine they do exist and there are often ads along the outside and along station areas. They even have some tunnels with glowing ads that follow the train through otherwise dark expanse. Or at least that's how it was from 2004 through 2007. If all of that has changed since then it's news to me.

These are not equivalent to Acela wraps not in any sense whatsoever. These trains are all local or commuter services. To be equivalent, the wraps would have to be on Shinkansen trainsets. I don't think you will find one of those trains with any form of advertising wrap anywhere.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

These are not equivalent to Acela wraps not in any sense whatsoever. These trains are all local or commuter services. To be equivalent, the wraps would have to be on Shinkansen trainsets. I don't think you will find one of those trains with any form of advertising wrap anywhere.

Let me clear that up for you.

In Japan the subways are full of ads, but the high-speed trains are not.

Are you caught-up yet?