ScottRu
Service Attendant
Reconfigure the Autotrain with shorter car carriers that will allow that train way up the NEC.
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Ryan
Court Jester
You'd need a whole mess of single level coaches and sleeping cars to do that as well.
Then you'd either lose ridership going to cars w/ less capacity or have to split the train into two sections (increasing costs) to keep the same ridership (assuming that the Viewliners have the same HEP restrictions the Superliners do).
Either way, Autotrain on the NEC isn't really feasible. Working with CSX to take it up their freight tracks would be a far better plan.
Then you'd either lose ridership going to cars w/ less capacity or have to split the train into two sections (increasing costs) to keep the same ridership (assuming that the Viewliners have the same HEP restrictions the Superliners do).
Either way, Autotrain on the NEC isn't really feasible. Working with CSX to take it up their freight tracks would be a far better plan.
Well there is still the overall restriction on just how much juice can be pumped through the HEP cables. However, the Viewliner cars being smaller draw less power than the bi-level Superliner cars. So you can have more Viewliner cars than Superliner cars, but still I suspect that you'd be cutting capacity some as I don't believe that a Superliner car draws double the power that a Viewliner car draws.
And a Superliner car doesn't weigh twice as much as a Viewliner car, so you'd probably have to add another engine to pull the additional weight.
PacificStarlight
Train Attendant
IMHO If you tacked some auto carriers onto the empire builder., it may work.!
Train Rider
Service Attendant
- Joined
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- 150
Add Chicago-Dubuque-LaCrosse, WI (timed with connection to EB)-Sioux Falls, SD-Rapid City, SD (Black Hills)-Yellowstone-Southern Idaho-Portland.
Adds two states with no Amtrak service and a third that really doesn't have it (Idaho). Adds access to two prime vacation areas.
Plus I could take the train to my folk's place instead of driving for 10 hours.
Adds two states with no Amtrak service and a third that really doesn't have it (Idaho). Adds access to two prime vacation areas.
Plus I could take the train to my folk's place instead of driving for 10 hours.
I shared this idea of mine earlier but will share it again. Have an "Empire Builder Light" with only coach service between MSP and SPK. The westbound would leave MSP at the same time that the regular EB left Chicago.
The eastbound EB Light coach service would leave Spokane about 5:30PM.
The eastbound EB Light coach service would leave Spokane about 5:30PM.
DivMiler
Lead Service Attendant
Pittsburg, Kansas, or Pittsburg, California? In a day? From the east?
Now that's ambitious!
^_^
DivMiler
Lead Service Attendant
I'd have service between Washington and Baltimore to York, Pennsylvania and Harrisburg, Pennsylvania (and maybe some sort of service following the Susquehanna River).
I would also increase the frequency for each train to twice daily. And ALL routes would be twice daily. I'd reinstate Vista Domes and Observation Domes wherever possible. There would be all new Superliners and Viewliners/ Each train would have full dining service. As for added routes, I would start with reinstating the Sunset Limited East, the North Coast Hiawatha, the Pioneer, and the Desert Wind. The Hiawatha would also split in Spokane, as the Empire Builder does now, with the Seattle portion using the old NP route through Pasco, and reinstating service to Yakima, Ellensburg, and East Auburn, via Stampede Pass. The Portland portion would use the UP tracks from Spokane to Hinkle, OR, restoring the route of the Spokane (or CIty of Hinkle, take your choice), that ran until Amtrak began operations. This would be coordinated with the arrival/departure times of the Pioneer. As Hinkle is nothing but a gigantic UP classification yard, and was served by only an Amshack, a new, spacious, comfortable station would be built at Hinkle. In addition, shuttles would run from Livingston, MTon the restored Hiawatha route to Yellowstone. (I'll leave it up to our resident bus expert Swadian to come up with those details. :lol: ) Then I would heavily market and tout the Hiawatha as the "Gateway to Yellowstone." Additionally I would add a stop on the Hiawatha in Cheney, WA (15 miles southwest of Spokane) to serve students at Eastern Washington University. I would also run at least one extra car, if not more, during football season to accomodate fans going to and from Big Sky Conference games at Portland (Portland State), Cheney (Eastern Washington University). Missoula, MT (University of Montana) and Bozeman, MT (Montana State). (Hey, the Big Sky Conference isn't exactly the SEC, or even the Pac-12 for that matter, but its football fans are no less rabid! :lol: )
Getting back to the trains themselves: All the long distance trains would enjoy the same amenities: real china and silverware, with table linens, wine tasting, those little bags of toiletries, and each would have a Pacific Parlour Car. I would also institute a Secret Rider system, and any shortcomings amongst the staff would be dealt with. Lax or poor customer service would not be tolerated. Same with cleaning crews and maintainance crews. Shoddy, poor, unprofessional work would not be tolerated. Any complaints would be dealt with on a personal basis, not just some note being stuffed in a file somewhere. Customer service workers would be exhaustively trained in their jobs. Same with ticket agents. No more "agent roulette". One set of rules for allowable trips for each case. All would work on the same page. I know this also means AGR, but all would be required to know what is allowed and what is not.
Getting back to the trains themselves: All the long distance trains would enjoy the same amenities: real china and silverware, with table linens, wine tasting, those little bags of toiletries, and each would have a Pacific Parlour Car. I would also institute a Secret Rider system, and any shortcomings amongst the staff would be dealt with. Lax or poor customer service would not be tolerated. Same with cleaning crews and maintainance crews. Shoddy, poor, unprofessional work would not be tolerated. Any complaints would be dealt with on a personal basis, not just some note being stuffed in a file somewhere. Customer service workers would be exhaustively trained in their jobs. Same with ticket agents. No more "agent roulette". One set of rules for allowable trips for each case. All would work on the same page. I know this also means AGR, but all would be required to know what is allowed and what is not.
MattW
Conductor
Northeast:
Expand the NEC to four-tracks minimum along its entire length, or at least try (I figure there's a few tight-clearance areas).
Add some NYC-BON/Maine trains via the Inland Route through Springfield, MA.
Work with commuter rail agencies to establish better timed connections at certain major outlying stations (Trenton, Providence, New Haven, Perryville [Aberdeen?] come to mind).
Replace all catenary with modern constant-tension catenary.
Either buy, lease, or otherwise work with CSX to quad-track the ex-RF&P with level boarding (VRE's gallery cars throw a wrench into this!) at all stations with electrification and Acela service extended to Richmond.
Upgrade east of Philadelphia Keystone line for 150mph in as many locations as possible (see Equipment section below).
South:
I think most of what I would do for Georgia (Atlanta daylight, and Atlanta-Chicago) has been well covered above.
For Florida, I'd look at getting Florida to begin intrastate service TPA/ORL to Miami.
Sunset East, need I say more! :giggle:
Midwest:
Work with Michigan for increased Michigan services.
Work with UP to allow more Lincoln Service trains to operate at 110mph including the Texas Eagle.
Work with the states to run at least one, maybe more roundtrips to the twin cities from Chicago.
Daily Cardinal once new equipment has arrived.
West:
Pioneer and Desert Wind definitely.
Work with Caltrain to extend a Surfliner roundtrip opposite the Coast Starlight to San Francisco or at least San Jose or Oakland.
Equipment:
Immediately order a Viewliner replacement for all existing Amfleet I and IIs, all doors trainlined.
Begin work on Superliner III, all doors trainlined.
Extend ACS-64 order for my Richmond electrification.
Order suitable HSR trainset to replace existing Acela.
Existing Acelas relegated to Keystone service before replacement by new HSR sets.
Begin work on diesel order; 4600hp with separate HEP engine.
Expand the NEC to four-tracks minimum along its entire length, or at least try (I figure there's a few tight-clearance areas).
Add some NYC-BON/Maine trains via the Inland Route through Springfield, MA.
Work with commuter rail agencies to establish better timed connections at certain major outlying stations (Trenton, Providence, New Haven, Perryville [Aberdeen?] come to mind).
Replace all catenary with modern constant-tension catenary.
Either buy, lease, or otherwise work with CSX to quad-track the ex-RF&P with level boarding (VRE's gallery cars throw a wrench into this!) at all stations with electrification and Acela service extended to Richmond.
Upgrade east of Philadelphia Keystone line for 150mph in as many locations as possible (see Equipment section below).
South:
I think most of what I would do for Georgia (Atlanta daylight, and Atlanta-Chicago) has been well covered above.
For Florida, I'd look at getting Florida to begin intrastate service TPA/ORL to Miami.
Sunset East, need I say more! :giggle:
Midwest:
Work with Michigan for increased Michigan services.
Work with UP to allow more Lincoln Service trains to operate at 110mph including the Texas Eagle.
Work with the states to run at least one, maybe more roundtrips to the twin cities from Chicago.
Daily Cardinal once new equipment has arrived.
West:
Pioneer and Desert Wind definitely.
Work with Caltrain to extend a Surfliner roundtrip opposite the Coast Starlight to San Francisco or at least San Jose or Oakland.
Equipment:
Immediately order a Viewliner replacement for all existing Amfleet I and IIs, all doors trainlined.
Begin work on Superliner III, all doors trainlined.
Extend ACS-64 order for my Richmond electrification.
Order suitable HSR trainset to replace existing Acela.
Existing Acelas relegated to Keystone service before replacement by new HSR sets.
Begin work on diesel order; 4600hp with separate HEP engine.
Swadian Hardcore
Engineer
I would wanthe the Georgian back. It could get plenty of passengers. SAV is too far from CHI for a day train.
I'd think it'd make more sense to have it go all the way up to Minneapolis, then shoot down to Sioux Falls. Minneapolis needs another train from Chicago anyways, and it's quite a large market to miss out on (more than would be gained from having a Dubuque-LaX train.)
chrsjrcj
OBS Chief
Yeah, I realized after I posted that SAV would be too far for a day train. Though, if it left ATL at 11 pm and took 6 hours to get to SAV, it would be a 5 am arrival and could connect with the SB Silver Meteor at SAV.
Swadian Hardcore
Engineer
If you're going to cannect with the SM anyway then you might as well run to MIA. The problem with track capacity is north of ATL, so if you use infinite funding to double-track it, you could just run the whole CHI-MIA on one train, serving many markets at the same time.
PacificStarlight
Train Attendant
Side note:Can someone pin this?
Something I think would be interesting is if Amtrak would by some Bombardier Commuter coaches and run them as short day trains. Like the northwest SEA-PDX One F59phi and 5 coaches per trip. No cafe or car attendants. Just a conductor and the occasional security officer.
Something I think would be interesting is if Amtrak would by some Bombardier Commuter coaches and run them as short day trains. Like the northwest SEA-PDX One F59phi and 5 coaches per trip. No cafe or car attendants. Just a conductor and the occasional security officer.
I'd double most of the LD trains. There are a few sections I probably wouldn't end up doubling (SLC-Reno comes to mind), and some others would end up doubled...but not on a through basis (the Cardinal is an example here...I'd have a daily Card plus a CHI-CIN and a CIN-NYP train) but I'd make sure that the through trains were set up for the best workable timings on the once-daily segments. West Virginia probably has more breadth than depth in coverage coming as well. The Builder might get "robbed" here as well if I opt for an NCH.
In the east, I'd probably go with a "Six Silvers and a Sunset" plan, so to speak. I'd also probably have two daily trains MIA-CHI (one via ATL, one via BHM)...but I'd run everything to ORL, TPA, and/or MIA. The downside would be virtually no FL-only trains (maybe one day train MIA-JAX on the FEC, maybe one MIA-TPA), but with a bunch of areas having 6-7x daily service, that seems a little redundant. The FEC would also get sections of most trains, though there might well be one or two that only go inland (or only go FEC). I'd also upgrade more or less an entire MIA-WAS line to allow a mix of 110 MPH and 125 MPH running, and probably append the Silvers with an "Orange Blossom Special" type train that goes borderline nonstop from RVR-JAX.
SEHSR would go at least as far as Atlanta, and I'd probably put a large corridor network hubbing there. I would seriously examine upping the speeds to 125 MPH all the way, and possibly further. You'd have a Chattanooga/Atlanta-Florida overnight train and one going north overnight, as well as day trains on both lines (one of these might be redundant with a through train).
In the NE, given an unlimited budget, I'd pick the Long Island route for HSR north of NYC. I'd also give /serious/ consideration to reworking NYP in some fashion (or, frankly, looking into some sort of monstrosity of a project to get a second, dedicated HSR line into town), and reorganizing the tracks to allow through business WAS-NYP-MTR on an Empire-esque routing...or I'd roll the Montreal connection in with the Long Island project and just run it via New Haven. Boston would get an absurdly expensive connection between BON and either BOS or BBY (here I'll look at practical considerations). The Water Level Route would go to 125 MPH at least as far as Buffalo; I'd probably also work out a "sealed train" deal for one overnighter NYP-CHI via Detroit, and have set-outs at Buffalo and Detroit. Honestly, I probably run the Acela/Next-Gen HSR into Hampton Roads: Regionals go in one side of the area, HSR in the other. If the HSR goes into Norfolk, I terminate as close to the Oceanfront as possible. If it goes into Newport News, then I probably live within walking distance of an LIRR-length commute to New York City. The net result of all of this would be NYC having a three-hour "trip bubble" covering Montreal, Portland ME, everything down to Virginia, and most of PA and NY state.
In the west, CAHSR is a definite winner in some form, though again...even with an unlimited budget, I want to avoid "bad trains". I would also probably run at least one or two overnight trains (with substantial temporal separation) on that line, jam in a massive pad, and run them further north. I would also extend the CAHSR network to San Diego (and indirectly to Vegas) and Reno. The Northwest would get some serious improvements all along the Cascades line, and I'd put in at least modest boosts to the SAC-PDX tracks. Also, corridor service and track improvements as far as Reno (at the very least if the HSR bit doesn't work out) and Phoenix. San Francisco gets a commute "bubble" extending deep into NV, LA gets one extending at /least/ to Vegas and probably into AZ.
In the mountains, the main thing would be a Pioneer/Desert Wind. Honestly, I'd probably end up with 3-4 CHI-DEN trains and DEN-SLC trains (I might leave the Zephyr in place but jam upgrades onto UP's line and run a limited-stop express line on the Overland Route), but the network would splinter at SLC (which is really what kills the SLC-Reno section in some ways) to avoid to much railcar ballet. Still, there would be some of that, but I'd also put a policy of hooking up the return cars to the first train out if they're late to limit the holds.
In the midwest, I'd put most of the Chicago Hub lines in, but most would have to speeds of 125 MPH. I'd also use this to revive a day train CHI-NOL, mainly by slashing as much time as I can off of the line north of Memphis. Northstar happens as well. I probably push the speeds up enough to get CHI-Fargo service back as well.
Who gets left out? Mostly flyover country in the west, but things are going to be a bit thin in the Appalachians. I'd probably push a sped-up connection between PGH/BUF and CLE to connect the networks, but things are just so thin in both cases and even blowing hundreds of billions on a dream national system, the most I coulds see justifying outside of the SLC and DEN areas (which could get corridor-ish operations within them) would be improvements to most of the existing lines.
Edit: I'd also examine auto-rail services, both LD (i.e. the Auto Train or something in the Midwest going south) and shorter-distance (i.e. operations in the West...LA-Northern CA might be worth looking at considering the "car culture" there). This is by no means a sure thing, and I wouldn't bet the ranch on it happening, but I'd at least look at a larger net of it.
In the east, I'd probably go with a "Six Silvers and a Sunset" plan, so to speak. I'd also probably have two daily trains MIA-CHI (one via ATL, one via BHM)...but I'd run everything to ORL, TPA, and/or MIA. The downside would be virtually no FL-only trains (maybe one day train MIA-JAX on the FEC, maybe one MIA-TPA), but with a bunch of areas having 6-7x daily service, that seems a little redundant. The FEC would also get sections of most trains, though there might well be one or two that only go inland (or only go FEC). I'd also upgrade more or less an entire MIA-WAS line to allow a mix of 110 MPH and 125 MPH running, and probably append the Silvers with an "Orange Blossom Special" type train that goes borderline nonstop from RVR-JAX.
SEHSR would go at least as far as Atlanta, and I'd probably put a large corridor network hubbing there. I would seriously examine upping the speeds to 125 MPH all the way, and possibly further. You'd have a Chattanooga/Atlanta-Florida overnight train and one going north overnight, as well as day trains on both lines (one of these might be redundant with a through train).
In the NE, given an unlimited budget, I'd pick the Long Island route for HSR north of NYC. I'd also give /serious/ consideration to reworking NYP in some fashion (or, frankly, looking into some sort of monstrosity of a project to get a second, dedicated HSR line into town), and reorganizing the tracks to allow through business WAS-NYP-MTR on an Empire-esque routing...or I'd roll the Montreal connection in with the Long Island project and just run it via New Haven. Boston would get an absurdly expensive connection between BON and either BOS or BBY (here I'll look at practical considerations). The Water Level Route would go to 125 MPH at least as far as Buffalo; I'd probably also work out a "sealed train" deal for one overnighter NYP-CHI via Detroit, and have set-outs at Buffalo and Detroit. Honestly, I probably run the Acela/Next-Gen HSR into Hampton Roads: Regionals go in one side of the area, HSR in the other. If the HSR goes into Norfolk, I terminate as close to the Oceanfront as possible. If it goes into Newport News, then I probably live within walking distance of an LIRR-length commute to New York City. The net result of all of this would be NYC having a three-hour "trip bubble" covering Montreal, Portland ME, everything down to Virginia, and most of PA and NY state.
In the west, CAHSR is a definite winner in some form, though again...even with an unlimited budget, I want to avoid "bad trains". I would also probably run at least one or two overnight trains (with substantial temporal separation) on that line, jam in a massive pad, and run them further north. I would also extend the CAHSR network to San Diego (and indirectly to Vegas) and Reno. The Northwest would get some serious improvements all along the Cascades line, and I'd put in at least modest boosts to the SAC-PDX tracks. Also, corridor service and track improvements as far as Reno (at the very least if the HSR bit doesn't work out) and Phoenix. San Francisco gets a commute "bubble" extending deep into NV, LA gets one extending at /least/ to Vegas and probably into AZ.
In the mountains, the main thing would be a Pioneer/Desert Wind. Honestly, I'd probably end up with 3-4 CHI-DEN trains and DEN-SLC trains (I might leave the Zephyr in place but jam upgrades onto UP's line and run a limited-stop express line on the Overland Route), but the network would splinter at SLC (which is really what kills the SLC-Reno section in some ways) to avoid to much railcar ballet. Still, there would be some of that, but I'd also put a policy of hooking up the return cars to the first train out if they're late to limit the holds.
In the midwest, I'd put most of the Chicago Hub lines in, but most would have to speeds of 125 MPH. I'd also use this to revive a day train CHI-NOL, mainly by slashing as much time as I can off of the line north of Memphis. Northstar happens as well. I probably push the speeds up enough to get CHI-Fargo service back as well.
Who gets left out? Mostly flyover country in the west, but things are going to be a bit thin in the Appalachians. I'd probably push a sped-up connection between PGH/BUF and CLE to connect the networks, but things are just so thin in both cases and even blowing hundreds of billions on a dream national system, the most I coulds see justifying outside of the SLC and DEN areas (which could get corridor-ish operations within them) would be improvements to most of the existing lines.
Edit: I'd also examine auto-rail services, both LD (i.e. the Auto Train or something in the Midwest going south) and shorter-distance (i.e. operations in the West...LA-Northern CA might be worth looking at considering the "car culture" there). This is by no means a sure thing, and I wouldn't bet the ranch on it happening, but I'd at least look at a larger net of it.
Last edited by a moderator:
Swadian Hardcore
Engineer
I think you missed out on BOS/NYP/WAS-CHI/STL, a big market and if upgraded, very useful for biz travellers going overnight.
jis
Permanent Way Inspector
Staff member
Administator
Moderator
AU Supporting Member
Gathering Team Member
Amtrak already operates a whole bunch what are essentially Bombardier Commuter Coaches in the way of the Horizon Cars.
For short distances like the one proposed it is upto the states involved to fund such, and they can choose to have Amtrak or someone else to run the actual service.
ScottRu
Service Attendant
I know... but we're dreaming here. (And I suppose you could have a shorter, one-story consist that began in NYP and then joined the taller consist in Lorton.)
It would be nice, you have to admit.
Ozark Southern
Lead Service Attendant
Well, we all know the system can stand some improvement, but I'll pick a couple of priorities:
1. The LD routes do a good job for the most part connecting the major cities (with some notable exceptions with which we are all familiar), but not always at convenient times. I would run 2 daily trains on each LD route at 12-hour headways. That way, a city that currently only has a train at 3 AM will now have one at 3 PM too.
2. We need to connect all the medium-sized cities (100,000+) that do not have any Amtrak service. Near where I live, there are many such cities: Springfield, MO; Tulsa, OK; Wichita, KS; Bentonville/Rogers/Springdale/Fayetteville area, AR; Nashville, TN; Knoxville, TN; Chattanooga, TN; Des Moines, IA; Cedar Rapids, IA; Louisville, KY; Lexington, KY. Those are just in the neighbouring states. There's no excuse for leaving out these cities. I'd get them on a route.
3. New equipment on every route. Nothing older than 15 years. Get it all on a fixed replacement cycle to ensure equipment isn't kept in service just because there's nothing else we can use.
I think if things like this were able to be implemented (and yes, I'm aware of the numerous political impediments to it), that Amtrak would have a much better reputation among your average Midwesterner.
1. The LD routes do a good job for the most part connecting the major cities (with some notable exceptions with which we are all familiar), but not always at convenient times. I would run 2 daily trains on each LD route at 12-hour headways. That way, a city that currently only has a train at 3 AM will now have one at 3 PM too.
2. We need to connect all the medium-sized cities (100,000+) that do not have any Amtrak service. Near where I live, there are many such cities: Springfield, MO; Tulsa, OK; Wichita, KS; Bentonville/Rogers/Springdale/Fayetteville area, AR; Nashville, TN; Knoxville, TN; Chattanooga, TN; Des Moines, IA; Cedar Rapids, IA; Louisville, KY; Lexington, KY. Those are just in the neighbouring states. There's no excuse for leaving out these cities. I'd get them on a route.
3. New equipment on every route. Nothing older than 15 years. Get it all on a fixed replacement cycle to ensure equipment isn't kept in service just because there's nothing else we can use.
I think if things like this were able to be implemented (and yes, I'm aware of the numerous political impediments to it), that Amtrak would have a much better reputation among your average Midwesterner.
Train Rider
Service Attendant
- Joined
- May 8, 2012
- Messages
- 150
I considered Rockford-Madison-LaCrosse, but Madison is but a short 25-mile drive from the Columbus stop on the EB. A Dubuque route would provide Chicago access to Galena and NW IL which are prime Chicago weekend getaway spots.
Bypassing southern MN eliminates my last point, which since this thread is "our Amtrak", is why I have it. However, I could see a practical route from MSP southwest along the Minnesota River to Mankato then Worthington and then Sioux Falls (which is an incredibly fast-growing city. This route could be timed to provide a reasonable second train timetable connecting CHI-MKE-MSP.
That's a bit extreme IMHO. While I'd support a serious mid-life overhaul/refurbishment, 15 years is not even half the life expectancy of a rail car. One is just throwing money out the window if one retires railcars at 15 years. 30 years might be a more acceptable rule.
Alexandria Nick
Lead Service Attendant
I'd also explore the possibility of retrofitting the unused "bar" on the upper level of the Superliner lounges and entering into a partnership with Starbucks (or through their subsidiary Seattle's Best), Caribou, or some other specialty coffee company to operate in that location. I'm not sure how staffing would work. I don't know if there's some sort of regulation somewhere that would require it to be an Amtrak employee or could be a contractor.
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