What is your problem MM? Ryan replied to your posts as anyone else on AU would have. Why do you think he's stalking you?
All meals not included (1st 2 pax only) (corrected - post 25)
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Ryan
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Ryan
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Maybe you can explain some of them, since the information needed doesn't appear on the tickets.
the_traveler
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This thread is locked pending staff review.
And now after a bit of cleaning, this topic is once again open for posting. Please let me remind everyone to be civil.
jis
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It would be nice indeed if at least one of the numerous ways envisioned would be described in detail so we can have a technical discussion about the practical feasibility of it. Thanks.
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One way I could see is to provide a ticket scanner to the LSA. Arriving passengers from sleepers would show their e-ticket (either paper or display) when being seated. The LSA scan would pull up the PNR and identify the number of people on the reservation. Free meal forms would be left for that number of people.
jis
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Yep. It still seems like a lot of additional bureaucracy for very little gain. In effect the cost of some number of children's meals will be recovered, and that too only for AGR travelers. Hopefully it will cover the cost of LSA training additional scanners and all that. 
I wonder if the LSA unions would want to have higher salaries since they'd be required to partake in more skilled tasks? Juuust kidding
I wonder if the LSA unions would want to have higher salaries since they'd be required to partake in more skilled tasks? Juuust kidding
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Ryan
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I'm not sure how that would solve the problem, unless there was a flag on the PNR that this was an AGR redemption to signal the LSA that 2 meals were free, not the 3 or 4 that were ticketed into the room.
MM's initial contention was that there would not be free meals for everyone ticketed in the room, just the first two people. This is only an issue with the family bedroom, where the "recommended capacity" (which is different than the Blue Book Max Capacity) is 2 adults and 2 kids.
MM's initial contention was that there would not be free meals for everyone ticketed in the room, just the first two people. This is only an issue with the family bedroom, where the "recommended capacity" (which is different than the Blue Book Max Capacity) is 2 adults and 2 kids.
the_traveler
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And how about if there were 2 or 3 on the reservation but only 1 person came to the diner? (Like at breakfast, where one goes at 6:30 while the other sleeps in.) And which one in the party holds the ticket receIpt?
jis
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Add more field (= number of meals to be served on the trip) in the PNR so the hapless LSA could carefully mark off how many meals have been served on each PNR for each meal
As I imagined the whole idea borders on insanity. Given that we know at least one person involved in AGR, I find it hard to imagine that they'd come up with such a Rube Goldberg scheme.
Isn't the dining service going to a new computerized POS soon-ish? I imagine that could be used to verify a customer's eligibility for meals - just have it scan the ticket for anyone who is in a sleeper (that way it's tied to the ticket as well and people don't have to remember their car and room number - telling a customer to bring their ticket is easier for the customer than having to remember a car and room number.)
Now what the purpose of limiting it below the number of customers booked in a room via AGR, I'm not sure. Seems like a lot of goodwill lost for not much revenue gain.
Now what the purpose of limiting it below the number of customers booked in a room via AGR, I'm not sure. Seems like a lot of goodwill lost for not much revenue gain.
Ryan
Court Jester
That's why AGR isn't doing it.
The real story isn't new, it's the limiting of AGR Bedroom awards to 2 people. That kind of sucks, but it is what it is.
The real story isn't new, it's the limiting of AGR Bedroom awards to 2 people. That kind of sucks, but it is what it is.
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Although the warning given in the opening thread is not currently implemented I would not be surprised to see Amtrak moving in the direction of verifying meal allocation with specific allotments, if for no other reason than to prevent even the appearance of unchallenged waste. Amtrak has several very vocal enemies in our government who love to harp on any waste they can find (or simply conjure up) in an effort to portray Amtrak's relatively small portion of the total budget as some sort of enormous tax drain. The honest truth is that fooling the diner staff into providing you a free meal would seem to be ludicrously easy under the current arrangement. Presumably this is tallied and caught after the fact, and hopefully it's not something that results in lots of unnecessary waste, but if I were Amtrak I'd at least consider implementing some sort of verification system beyond the honor system that appears to be in place today.
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Ryan
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In theory you can be asked to show your ticket stub, but it's never happened to me.
Ispolkom
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I also don't see what would stop someone from signing a check in the dining car, listing a random roomette, eating for free, and then leaving the train at the next station. I've never been asked for my ticket in the diner by the LSA. Once when I was at breakfast a conductor asked me for my ticket, as it hadn't been lifted the night before when I boarded the train, but that doesn't count.
It probably wouldn't only work for a meal without reservations, as I have been asked for my reservation slip.
You could try to reconcile meal checks against the manifest, but that wouldn't be a perfect system, unless the manifest was updated in real time. I've booked travel on long-distance trains after the train has left its station of origin, and therefore wasn't on the printed manifest. This caused some confusion in the sleeper, but not the dining car.
It probably wouldn't only work for a meal without reservations, as I have been asked for my reservation slip.
You could try to reconcile meal checks against the manifest, but that wouldn't be a perfect system, unless the manifest was updated in real time. I've booked travel on long-distance trains after the train has left its station of origin, and therefore wasn't on the printed manifest. This caused some confusion in the sleeper, but not the dining car.
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the_traveler
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I think most passengers can remember that they're in room #4 or #7 and the 2nd sleeper or the Boston sleeper. Even when they were paper tickets, I did not usually carry my tickets with me. And now, I only use an iPad, which I'm not going to carry to the Dining Car each time. (I don't have a data plan on my phone.)
Amtrak Blue? You are sweet to ask, and I've no problem discussing with you in detail but why not send me a PM so we can keep this post on topic. Thanks!
The ticket scanning system is already in place, so the technology aspect wouldn't be difficult, and to address the above, Amtrak has a lot of incentive to move away from the current honor system PLUS find ways to increase revenues, especially on the LD trains. This is why I wasn't all that surprised when receiving the original incorrect information - in fact, I see it coming eventually in some way, although I hope I'm wrong.... following the lead of airlines who have mostly eradicated the idea of meal provision, and focusing on getting from point A to B.
I think most passengers can remember what number of room they're in and what location sleeper they're in (and the number as well.) But for most passengers I think it's slightly easier to just remember to bring their ticket and have it scanned. I'd imagine that they would be able to look up a reservation as well if needed (perhaps by car/room number.) But if we're going to electronic POS anyways, I think migrating to using the ticket would be preferable for verification over a room number.
Except that only the conductors currently have the scanning technology, and it's interfaced in with a system to verify passengers are on the correct train, not to keep a running tally of meals on the train. I believe Amtrak is working to migrate to electronic POS for the dining cars anyways, and those systems should have those checks built in, but they'll likely be separate from the current technology.
jis
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Just to set the record straight one more time on the matter of food service.... Most airlines sell food to economy passengers on flights of sufficient length, just like Amtrak does to Coach passengers. Airlines that have domestic First Class generally serve food in First Class gratis, and the food is quite reasonable, just like Amtrak serves food gratis to First Class and Sleeper passengers. So as far as food service goes there is relatively little difference between Amtrak and at least the legacy airlines.
amamba
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My understanding is that amtrak added the meals to be included with sleeper tix in an effort to save the dining cars. Someone please correct me if I"m wrong.
jis
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You are correct. When this was done food was added to the ticket for Sleepers, but not for Slumbercoaches in the eastern trains. In order to avoid the enormous additional food charge I traveled by Slumbercoaches as long as they existed. Of course on the Superliner trains there was no way to get a sleeping berth and avoid the food charges.
Even now I usually do not partake all three meals while traveling by Sleeper. Too much food for me. Naturally I think it would be nice if the food charges were separated out, so that one gets to pay only for the food that one actually consumes, but for saving the Diners I am happy to subsidize it to some extent.
Ditto! Excellent Post jis! (I used to ride the Crescent often from WAS-GRV in Slumber Coaches!)
(I used to ride the Crescent often from WAS-GRV in Slumber Coaches!)
Sort of. If the airline decides that the flight encompasses a normal meal time, a meal is served. Otherwise, FC gets you larger seats, headphones, first on/off, free alcohol... but there are not meals served on every flight. Though I will say that snack service in FC is often like a meal. Where it is really different is that if your flight is delayed, most of the time your food costs are up to you, where on Amtrak they do seem to make an effort to provide things like meals and hotels to misconnecting passengers, even in the common weather situations where airlines stopped paying for these things, a process that started after deregulation and there was no more CAB.
