All rail using one reservation system?

[Philzy]

I’ve been playing with this idea in the back of my mind for some time: “What if all the passenger rail providers used the same reservation system?” Amtrak and Commuter rail providers!

As I’ve mentioned in other threads I worked for the airlines for years. While working for the Legacy Airlines a la American/Delta/Continental etc their reservation systems will allow you to view other airlines flights – some even allow booking others flights when needed called an OA (other airline) Booking or Offline Booking.

Also in comparison was that airlines often use “code shares” on each others flights. For those of you not familure with this system, one airline will place it’s airline name and a different flight number on a flight operated by a rival airline.

Example: you fly from Philadelphia on US Airways to Chicago to make your connecting US Airways flight from Chicago to Los Angeles. When you arrive at the connecting gate you’ll actually see a United Airlines flight #105 on the display board and beside or below that you’ll see Code Share US Airways Flt # 7329.

This allows airlines who are rivals to work together to maximize revenue. In these cases the way the fare basis is written each airline receives payment for the portion of the trip they flew the customer.

So, I was thinking as Amtrak continues to grow in an effort to maximize revenue would it make sense for commuter rail services to be required to input their data into Amtrak’s system to allow booking to be done at one central point (either one) from Amtrak destinations to smaller ones (or visa versa) served only by commuter rail lines? Would it be of any benefit to Amtrak to place their train number on some of the commuter rail lines if required to “code share” to book other rail lines?

Maybe this idea has already come and gone and not worked? Seems like it would be a big under taking but it seems it would really help out with ridership numbers in places wouldn’t it?

Love to hear some ideas on this…

 

[Trogdor]

Amtrak does sell some tickets for commuter rail connections, and Metrolink (southern California) vending machines can sell Amtrak tickets (though, it's not quite the same idea as buying it all in one transaction).

Part of the problem that I see is that, unlike the airline industry, where passengers must book reservations in advance, most commuter rail agencies actually don't have any sort of reservation system at all, per se. It wouldn't surprise me if the majority of the systems didn't even have any schedule data at all that was directly linked to their ticket sales system.

One complication that would arise would be to determine who is responsible in the event of a misconnect.

I don't think it's a bad idea to look into, but I think the idea of it being "required" is a bit much, at this point.

 

[AlanB]

And just to add to what Robert mentioned, Amtrak does have a code share with Continental on flights into and out of EWR, Newark airport.

 

[sechs]

They're trying to get all of the transit systems in the San Francisco Bay area to use one stored-value card, and it's not really working. How in the heck are we going to get all of these commuter rail systems to agree on one ticketing system?

I honestly don't think it'd be too hard to get Amtrak to interface with Sabre or one of the existing travel booking systems. It just wouldn't do all of the train-specific things that they need.

 

[TampAGS]

I've been playing with this idea in the back of my mind for some time: "What if all the passenger rail providers used the same reservation system?" Amtrak and Commuter rail providers!
As I've mentioned in other threads I worked for the airlines for years. While working for the Legacy Airlines a la American/Delta/Continental etc their reservation systems will allow you to view other airlines flights – some even allow booking others flights when needed called an OA (other airline) Booking or Offline Booking.

Also in comparison was that airlines often use "code shares" on each others flights. For those of you not familure with this system, one airline will place it's airline name and a different flight number on a flight operated by a rival airline.

Example: you fly from Philadelphia on US Airways to Chicago to make your connecting US Airways flight from Chicago to Los Angeles. When you arrive at the connecting gate you'll actually see a United Airlines flight #105 on the display board and beside or below that you'll see Code Share US Airways Flt # 7329.

This allows airlines who are rivals to work together to maximize revenue. In these cases the way the fare basis is written each airline receives payment for the portion of the trip they flew the customer.

So, I was thinking as Amtrak continues to grow in an effort to maximize revenue would it make sense for commuter rail services to be required to input their data into Amtrak's system to allow booking to be done at one central point (either one) from Amtrak destinations to smaller ones (or visa versa) served only by commuter rail lines? Would it be of any benefit to Amtrak to place their train number on some of the commuter rail lines if required to "code share" to book other rail lines?

Maybe this idea has already come and gone and not worked? Seems like it would be a big under taking but it seems it would really help out with ridership numbers in places wouldn't it?

Love to hear some ideas on this…

Amtrak is a carrier participant with the Airlines Reporting Corporation (ARC), as are pretty much all the major airlines. ARC is the company that handles all the reservations data for air and rail carriers worldwide to allow for coordination of passenger records both within and between carriers, as well as to allow booking and issuing of travel documents by travel agencies and reservations centers internationally. This carrier status allows Amtrak travel to be booked in very much a similar manner to what you experienced with the airlines on any Global Distribution System like Worldspan, Sabre, etc.

 

Amtrak does offer codeshares currently with Continental Airlines for destinations out of Newark, if I'm not mistaken.

 

For commuter rail, the reservations and ticketing process has traditionally been handled very differently and has been much less formal and data-intensive. They don't require all the details like passenger name, contact info, etc., which allows for quick and easy ticketing via vending machines and station kiosks. Since these services are primarily for local use by commuters and are not really a means of immigration or interstate migration by travelers, the details involved in traditional rail and air travel are not required.

 

I'm not aware of any local or commuter rail carriers that are participating with ARC, since few would have proprietary res systems that would be able to provide the data that ARC requires. This would likely be a barrier to any "codeshare" style programs between a commuter rail system and Amtrak, or for that matter with any airline. I imagine the effort and expense of implementing such a system would seem prohibitive to a local rail outfit. As our rail network stands in the US today, I doubt the potential benefits would outweigh their costs.

 

[volkris]

I, personally, would like to see a whole lot more integration between airline and rail bookings. Forget codeshares with Continental; I want to book travel with a train serving part of the route and have trains seen as a routine alternative when flights are unable to get off the ground due to weather.

How would this work? Who would guarantee connections and such?

Well, get airlines to focus on flying their planes, not selling tickets, and let third parties handle all of the bookings. Let the booking website or agent scour every possible way to get me from point A to point B (planes, trains, mules, whatever) and let me choose the most suitable. I pay that company for the trip, and they guarantee all connections based on their knowledge of OTP. Then, if there's a hitch in the travel plan they'll be better positioned to rebook me on whatever mode of transportation makes the most sense at that point.

I can imagine such companies providing Amtrak with a steady flow of capital as a sort of insurance policy for those occasions where an airport closing can fill an extra two traincars. It's almost a futures market for transport.

 

[Upstate]

I would like to see more integration between bus companies and Amtrak. I know some are already acting as thruway providers, but it would be nice to go to Amtrak's website and say that I want to go from one place in the boonies to another place across the country in the boonies and be shown the bus connection to the train and the bus connection after the train. There is no way that Amtrak can serve small towns other than the ones that it passes through, but if they could better coordinate with the bus companies then a lot of other small towns could be served.

 

[Guest]

I’ve been playing with this idea in the back of my mind for some time: “What if all the passenger rail providers used the same reservation system?” Amtrak and Commuter rail providers!

Are there really any commuter rail providers that take reservations?

At least Metro North doesn't.

 

[AlanB]

I’ve been playing with this idea in the back of my mind for some time: “What if all the passenger rail providers used the same reservation system?” Amtrak and Commuter rail providers!

Are there really any commuter rail providers that take reservations?

At least Metro North doesn't.

NJT does for their new service ACES, to Atlantic City. And Amtrak sells those tickets on Amtrak ticket stock, which the NJT conductors collect.

 

[jackal]

Amtrak is a carrier participant with the Airlines Reporting Corporation (ARC), as are pretty much all the major airlines. ARC is the company that handles all the reservations data for air and rail carriers worldwide to allow for coordination of passenger records both within and between carriers, as well as to allow booking and issuing of travel documents by travel agencies and reservations centers internationally. This carrier status allows Amtrak travel to be booked in very much a similar manner to what you experienced with the airlines on any Global Distribution System like Worldspan, Sabre, etc. 

Amtrak does offer codeshares currently with Continental Airlines for destinations out of Newark, if I'm not mistaken.

I, personally, would like to see a whole lot more integration between airline and rail bookings. Forget codeshares with Continental; I want to book travel with a train serving part of the route and have trains seen as a routine alternative when flights are unable to get off the ground due to weather.
How would this work? Who would guarantee connections and such?

Well, get airlines to focus on flying their planes, not selling tickets, and let third parties handle all of the bookings. Let the booking website or agent scour every possible way to get me from point A to point B (planes, trains, mules, whatever) and let me choose the most suitable. I pay that company for the trip, and they guarantee all connections based on their knowledge of OTP. Then, if there's a hitch in the travel plan they'll be better positioned to rebook me on whatever mode of transportation makes the most sense at that point.

I mentioned this issue in this post last June. I believe that if online travel agency websites made train travel options more visible to people, it very well may increase ridership on Amtrak. Visibility is key--as has been mentioned many times, most people in this country are clueless about Amtrak. If, when booking their travel, they see it as an option (and often a lower-priced option!), general awareness will be increased and booking numbers will shoot up.

As TampAGS already mentioned, Amtrak publishes its fare and booking data on the GDSes. Therefore, it is up to each travel agency to configure their systems to allow rail bookings. Perhaps we should start a letter-writing campaign to the major online travel agencies (Travelocity, Orbitz, Expedia, etc.) and ask them to incorporate Amtrak data in their search results.

I've been playing with this idea in the back of my mind for some time: "What if all the passenger rail providers used the same reservation system?" Amtrak and Commuter rail providers!

Are there really any commuter rail providers that take reservations?

At least Metro North doesn't.

NJT does for their new service ACES, to Atlantic City. And Amtrak sells those tickets on Amtrak ticket stock, which the NJT conductors collect.

And as you've mentioned before, Alan, the reason they do so is because NJT's systems cannot handle the more complex requirements of this service such as reservations in multiple fare buckets.

As nice as Philzy's idea sounds on paper, I'm not entirely sure what the benefit would be. Frankly, I don't think there's a need for it--passengers will still have to transfer to the appropriate commuter/subway/light rail system at the city's main train station (or an alternate connecting point like BBY), and it's really not much of a hassle to stop at a kiosk, drop a few bucks in, and get a ticket for the local train service.

Rather than spend millions of dollars (maybe even billions) to integrate every American transit agency's system into Amtrak's system (and good luck doing that--most are still trying to figure out the relatively simple process of uploading their data to Google Transit's free trip planner), Amtrak would probably do better to instead look at instituting agreements with transit agencies such that Amtrak tickets give a free transfer to local transit (and Amtrak could figure out a way to track this and, if needed, share revenue with the agencies; logistical issues would be figuring out a system to allow them to be used on transit systems with barrier enforcement) or selling or bundling transit agency tickets with rail tickets (i.e. "book your connecting transit now and save 25%"; logistical issues would be delivering the transit agency's ticket with the Amtrak ticket if the Amtrak ticket is delivered electronically).

Actually, they already do a form of the latter option on the Capitol Corridor in California: you can buy a connecting BART ticket from the conductor for 20% off the normal cost.

Honestly, though, I think most people are fine with just grabbing a transit ticket from a TVM at the destination--it's simple enough. The bigger problem is getting the word out to people that such a local transit option exists and convincing them to use it.

 

[AlanB]

Actually, they already do a form of the latter option on the Capitol Corridor in California: you can buy a connecting BART ticket from the conductor for 20% off the normal cost.

Amtrak also has an agreement with SEPTA, whereby an Amtrak passenger can show their ticket or ticket stub to a SEPTA conductor for free passage on SEPTA to the downtown stations. You can't ride for free to outlying stations, but it's a great way to get to Center City from the Amtrak station.

And speaking of SEPTA, I'm sure that people would love to get their SEPTA tickets from a TVM, if only SEPTA actually had TVM's.

 

[wayman]

And speaking of SEPTA, I'm sure that people would love to get their SEPTA tickets from a TVM, if only SEPTA actually had TVM's.

We used to have 'em, but when the $20 bill was redesigned (and shortly thereafter the $10 and $5 bills) the machines weren't updated to accept the new bills ... and hence quickly became completely useless. Eventually they were boarded up, and I think they've finally been carted away to wherever TVM's go to die.

It was always a riot at Swarthmore right after a holiday break--everyone would return to campus on the R3 with a pocket full of silver dollars, because that was the only way the old TVM's gave change. This was before the college started running their own van service to and from the airport, so practically the entire student body took SEPTA (whether to 30th St for a train or to the airport for a flight). Campus would be flooded with Susan B. Anthony's for a week or so after each break. Many times all I had in my wallet was a $20 when I needed to buy a $3.25 ticket!

(While I'm reminiscing, it's nice to remember back when tickets were only $3.25! )

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

As nice as Philzy's idea sounds on paper, I'm not entirely sure what the benefit would be. Frankly, I don't think there's a need for it--passengers will still have to transfer to the appropriate commuter/subway/light rail system at the city's main train station (or an alternate connecting point like BBY), and it's really not much of a hassle to stop at a kiosk, drop a few bucks in, and get a ticket for the local train service.

Also, while the MBTA Commuter Rail system involves human ticket takers who could be trained to accept tickets printed on Amtrak stock, the MBTA subway system has fully automated fare gates which are set up to read proximity cards and magnetic stripe cards. Do you want to force Amtrak to add complexity (and thus unreliabilty) to every single Quik-Trak machine so that they can spit out compatible passes for every transit system? Or should half the subway system fare gates in the country be replaced to add a new type of reader?

And what about the proof of payment systems? Is the point of this excercise to save people from having to interact with any sort of machine before boarding?

The other thing that might be nice is for passes to be more universally accepted. I believe there are multiple taxpayer subsidized bus systems I can reach with the MBTA Commuter Rail system that won't accept my MBTA LinkPass. (RIPTA is certainly reachable, I believe Worcester has a bus system, and Fall River / New Bedford have their own bus systems if the commuter rail expansion that's planned actually happens.) It would be nice if there was at least a policy that one could buy a Massachusetts local bus pass and ride any Massachusetts bus.

 

[AlanB]

And speaking of SEPTA, I'm sure that people would love to get their SEPTA tickets from a TVM, if only SEPTA actually had TVM's.

We used to have 'em, but when the $20 bill was redesigned (and shortly thereafter the $10 and $5 bills) the machines weren't updated to accept the new bills ... and hence quickly became completely useless. Eventually they were boarded up, and I think they've finally been carted away to wherever TVM's go to die.

Yes I know, I used them many times. Even with the old bills they weren't all that reliable though, and they were a real pain to use in general.

Give me an MTA TVM any day!

 

[Philzy]

I've been playing with this idea in the back of my mind for some time: "What if all the passenger rail providers used the same reservation system?" Amtrak and Commuter rail providers!
As I've mentioned in other threads I worked for the airlines for years. While working for the Legacy Airlines a la American/Delta/Continental etc their reservation systems will allow you to view other airlines flights – some even allow booking others flights when needed called an OA (other airline) Booking or Offline Booking.

Also in comparison was that airlines often use "code shares" on each others flights. For those of you not familure with this system, one airline will place it's airline name and a different flight number on a flight operated by a rival airline.

Example: you fly from Philadelphia on US Airways to Chicago to make your connecting US Airways flight from Chicago to Los Angeles. When you arrive at the connecting gate you'll actually see a United Airlines flight #105 on the display board and beside or below that you'll see Code Share US Airways Flt # 7329.

This allows airlines who are rivals to work together to maximize revenue. In these cases the way the fare basis is written each airline receives payment for the portion of the trip they flew the customer.

So, I was thinking as Amtrak continues to grow in an effort to maximize revenue would it make sense for commuter rail services to be required to input their data into Amtrak's system to allow booking to be done at one central point (either one) from Amtrak destinations to smaller ones (or visa versa) served only by commuter rail lines? Would it be of any benefit to Amtrak to place their train number on some of the commuter rail lines if required to "code share" to book other rail lines?

Maybe this idea has already come and gone and not worked? Seems like it would be a big under taking but it seems it would really help out with ridership numbers in places wouldn't it?

Love to hear some ideas on this…

Amtrak is a carrier participant with the Airlines Reporting Corporation (ARC), as are pretty much all the major airlines. ARC is the company that handles all the reservations data for air and rail carriers worldwide to allow for coordination of passenger records both within and between carriers, as well as to allow booking and issuing of travel documents by travel agencies and reservations centers internationally. This carrier status allows Amtrak travel to be booked in very much a similar manner to what you experienced with the airlines on any Global Distribution System like Worldspan, Sabre, etc.

 

Amtrak does offer codeshares currently with Continental Airlines for destinations out of Newark, if I'm not mistaken.

 

For commuter rail, the reservations and ticketing process has traditionally been handled very differently and has been much less formal and data-intensive. They don't require all the details like passenger name, contact info, etc., which allows for quick and easy ticketing via vending machines and station kiosks. Since these services are primarily for local use by commuters and are not really a means of immigration or interstate migration by travelers, the details involved in traditional rail and air travel are not required.

 

I'm not aware of any local or commuter rail carriers that are participating with ARC, since few would have proprietary res systems that would be able to provide the data that ARC requires. This would likely be a barrier to any "codeshare" style programs between a commuter rail system and Amtrak, or for that matter with any airline. I imagine the effort and expense of implementing such a system would seem prohibitive to a local rail outfit. As our rail network stands in the US today, I doubt the potential benefits would outweigh their costs.

See, I kinda of assumed that Amtrak had to use some type of GDS system cuz I knew that they partcipated with Continental in doing codeshares. What I didn't understand (and apparently I'm not the only one) is why when booking travel on expedia or something if flights are sold out why they wouldn't offer that as an alternative... doesn't make sense to me, but I don't get paid to think up the sensible ideas (aparently someone else does and he prob worked at AIG previous to that! ha! :lol: )

I, personally, would like to see a whole lot more integration between airline and rail bookings. Forget codeshares with Continental; I want to book travel with a train serving part of the route and have trains seen as a routine alternative when flights are unable to get off the ground due to weather.
How would this work? Who would guarantee connections and such?

Well, get airlines to focus on flying their planes, not selling tickets, and let third parties handle all of the bookings. Let the booking website or agent scour every possible way to get me from point A to point B (planes, trains, mules, whatever) and let me choose the most suitable. I pay that company for the trip, and they guarantee all connections based on their knowledge of OTP. Then, if there's a hitch in the travel plan they'll be better positioned to rebook me on whatever mode of transportation makes the most sense at that point.

I can imagine such companies providing Amtrak with a steady flow of capital as a sort of insurance policy for those occasions where an airport closing can fill an extra two traincars. It's almost a futures market for transport.

Agreed! I would love to see more intergration and I'm sure it would boost ridership. Say you want to book a evening trip to city ABC and you'll missconnect to the last flight departure but there is a train you can take from the airport... wouldn't that make it worthwhile if you could make that into an "overnight trip" maximizing the utlization of your time?

i'm not sure how the connections guarantee would work... In the airlines they way we do it is the last airline transporting is repsonsible. Example:

You fly on US Airways to Pittsburgh to connect to your United Airlines flight to DC but you arrive late and miss it. It's now US Airways responsibility to get you to your final destination. The only thing is the tickets have to be booked in conjunction for that to be legal. If booked in conjunction then US can either rule 120 or rule 240 the ticket over to them selves and provide transport on US or another carrier.

Interesting that you popped this one cuz i had this happen with RAIL no less...

I got a great deal to San Diego like for about $150 bucks round trip years ago. the only problem I had to depart from BWI and I lived in Charlottesville. So, I took the Crescent to DC hopped on another train to BWI station... took US Airways from BWI to PIT to fly to Phoenix (PHX) on US Air to connect to America West to San Diego (SAN) on the return it was the same. flying back was the same routing and carriers. However when we got to PIT there was weather, we circled, diverted to Cleveland for fuel and then finally flew back over to PIT. By this time I had missed my BWI flight and the next BWI flight they could get me on was going to have me miss my train, I tried to fly into National in DC but still no luck as all the flights were booked and foobar'd. The agent trying to get me to BWI couldn't find anything to BWI in the next day or so. So, I suggested fly me to Charlottesville on US since they still had non-stop service on the Dash-8 props at the time. So, he said "let me see your train ticket..." took the ticket wrote something on it and used it as a "paper coupon" (e-tickets were the new in thing then) attaching it to the back of my boarding pass with an authorization to use it as such. So, I would love to hear what the people in revenue accounting at US Air said when they got that one on their desk... Who knows maybe this is something common that the airlines do when there are irregular operations... :huh:

Amtrak is a carrier participant with the Airlines Reporting Corporation (ARC), as are pretty much all the major airlines. ARC is the company that handles all the reservations data for air and rail carriers worldwide to allow for coordination of passenger records both within and between carriers, as well as to allow booking and issuing of travel documents by travel agencies and reservations centers internationally. This carrier status allows Amtrak travel to be booked in very much a similar manner to what you experienced with the airlines on any Global Distribution System like Worldspan, Sabre, etc. 

Amtrak does offer codeshares currently with Continental Airlines for destinations out of Newark, if I'm not mistaken.

Again, this is what I thought, but still don't understand why better use of this is not made by online travel service providers...

I, personally, would like to see a whole lot more integration between airline and rail bookings. Forget codeshares with Continental; I want to book travel with a train serving part of the route and have trains seen as a routine alternative when flights are unable to get off the ground due to weather.
How would this work? Who would guarantee connections and such?

Well, get airlines to focus on flying their planes, not selling tickets, and let third parties handle all of the bookings. Let the booking website or agent scour every possible way to get me from point A to point B (planes, trains, mules, whatever) and let me choose the most suitable. I pay that company for the trip, and they guarantee all connections based on their knowledge of OTP. Then, if there's a hitch in the travel plan they'll be better positioned to rebook me on whatever mode of transportation makes the most sense at that point.

I mentioned this issue in this post last June. I believe that if online travel agency websites made train travel options more visible to people, it very well may increase ridership on Amtrak. Visibility is key--as has been mentioned many times, most people in this country are clueless about Amtrak. If, when booking their travel, they see it as an option (and often a lower-priced option!), general awareness will be increased and booking numbers will shoot up.

As TampAGS already mentioned, Amtrak publishes its fare and booking data on the GDSes. Therefore, it is up to each travel agency to configure their systems to allow rail bookings. Perhaps we should start a letter-writing campaign to the major online travel agencies (Travelocity, Orbitz, Expedia, etc.) and ask them to incorporate Amtrak data in their search results.

I've been playing with this idea in the back of my mind for some time: "What if all the passenger rail providers used the same reservation system?" Amtrak and Commuter rail providers!

Are there really any commuter rail providers that take reservations?

At least Metro North doesn't.

NJT does for their new service ACES, to Atlantic City. And Amtrak sells those tickets on Amtrak ticket stock, which the NJT conductors collect.

And as you've mentioned before, Alan, the reason they do so is because NJT's systems cannot handle the more complex requirements of this service such as reservations in multiple fare buckets.

As nice as Philzy's idea sounds on paper, I'm not entirely sure what the benefit would be. Frankly, I don't think there's a need for it--passengers will still have to transfer to the appropriate commuter/subway/light rail system at the city's main train station (or an alternate connecting point like BBY), and it's really not much of a hassle to stop at a kiosk, drop a few bucks in, and get a ticket for the local train service.

Rather than spend millions of dollars (maybe even billions) to integrate every American transit agency's system into Amtrak's system (and good luck doing that--most are still trying to figure out the relatively simple process of uploading their data to Google Transit's free trip planner), Amtrak would probably do better to instead look at instituting agreements with transit agencies such that Amtrak tickets give a free transfer to local transit (and Amtrak could figure out a way to track this and, if needed, share revenue with the agencies; logistical issues would be figuring out a system to allow them to be used on transit systems with barrier enforcement) or selling or bundling transit agency tickets with rail tickets (i.e. "book your connecting transit now and save 25%"; logistical issues would be delivering the transit agency's ticket with the Amtrak ticket if the Amtrak ticket is delivered electronically).

Actually, they already do a form of the latter option on the Capitol Corridor in California: you can buy a connecting BART ticket from the conductor for 20% off the normal cost.

Honestly, though, I think most people are fine with just grabbing a transit ticket from a TVM at the destination--it's simple enough. The bigger problem is getting the word out to people that such a local transit option exists and convincing them to use it.

huh, interesting... yeah see I was thinking it not so much as to bypass interaction but that for people like my own mother for one, she wants "one stop shopping" and has no interest in trying to track down five different things or call 5 different people or use three different machines. If she can book online with one agency she's set. She wants everything "just so" - some people call it excentric - i say she's particular...

regardless it isn't so much for making a reservation it's more so for not having to make three different stops. Paint you a picture I shall... you have just come off of a long distance train where you have spend many a number of hours watching the scenery pass but much slower than expected. You got an all expense paid "intensive look" at the farm outside your window when the freight train in front of yours stopped your passenger trains travel for over an hour which was followed by a slow moving train for "track work." So you arrive, you, your half and your two kids. you are now almost three hours late and the last commuter train is leaving in about 5 minutes. as you dis-embark from the train with all your belongings and bags and "stuff" do you choose to send one parent t run in the station quickly to grab tickets from the machine and meet at the departing platform? What if you're an only parent with two kids bags and alike to that not so fun situation... Not that any of us have ever experienced a situation where if we had done things in advance it would have saved the day and saved one from a big headache of a problem... *sarcasm ending*

Anyhow.... moving along.... You see my gist on this one... granted most people who trake commuter rail do so on a regular basis but what about the people who don't? we've all been in line behind the person who doesn't know how to use the machine so we step up to help them out cuz they are taking FOREVER only to find out they don't want your help and they can figure it out on their own - so you find another machine and as your train pulls away you see them walking away from the machine finally... yeah been there too... me, bitter? not a bit.

And Jackal, that is exactly the type of thing I'm talking about. The first time I took the CC from Sac to Emeryville I had no clue what BART was and I was already planning on taking the bus to San Fran. I found out about it and it was perfect for me, I used the pass the rest of the afternoon! I have to agree to that getting the word out is the biggest problem... if people know they'll use it, if not it goes unknown...

 

[TampAGS]

I mentioned this issue in this post last June. I believe that if online travel agency websites made train travel options more visible to people, it very well may increase ridership on Amtrak. Visibility is key--as has been mentioned many times, most people in this country are clueless about Amtrak. If, when booking their travel, they see it as an option (and often a lower-priced option!), general awareness will be increased and booking numbers will shoot up.
As TampAGS already mentioned, Amtrak publishes its fare and booking data on the GDSes. Therefore, it is up to each travel agency to configure their systems to allow rail bookings. Perhaps we should start a letter-writing campaign to the major online travel agencies (Travelocity, Orbitz, Expedia, etc.) and ask them to incorporate Amtrak data in their search results.

I agree regarding the relative invisibility of Amtrak in today's market. Americans have a societal bias towards air travel to the extent that rail isn't even on the radar for most travelers, even in areas served by Amtrak. I love to travel, have previously worked in the travel industry, and frequently traveled for business in my more recent (non-travel related) career. Even so, it took 36 years before the lightbulb over my head finally lit up with the notion of looking into rail as a means of transit.

 

I find very frequently in the local "Ride Share" forum on Craigslist people desperately trying to find a ride from Tampa to Miami, Orlando, etc. in exchange for financial contribution towards gas expenses. Generally I try to shoot them a quick response pointing out that for about the same amounts of time and money, they can travel much more comfortably and reliably on Amtrak, even for a last-minute booking. To this they usually express dumbfounded surprise and real gratitude. People simply aren't "trained" to think of Amtrak.

 

More exposure on the major travel sites would be an improvement. Travelocity and Orbitz do have options for rail, but you have to go looking for it. Even then, they simply re-direct you to Amtrak's own site.

 

[volkris]

i'm not sure how the connections guarantee would work... In the airlines they way we do it is the last airline transporting is repsonsible. Example:You fly on US Airways to Pittsburgh to connect to your United Airlines flight to DC but you arrive late and miss it. It's now US Airways responsibility to get you to your final destination. The only thing is the tickets have to be booked in conjunction for that to be legal. If booked in conjunction then US can either rule 120 or rule 240 the ticket over to them selves and provide transport on US or another carrier.

Firstly, if the rules aren't ideal I can't think of better incentive for the government to fix them than to maximize the operation of a government-supported service, especially if it becomes more popular.

I say forget such rules. Make it clear which companies are guaranteeing connections on trips they book and which are going to leave their customers out in the rain, and let's see which one the consumers pick. Do you really want to be pulling out "rule 182 strike J subsection III" to a frazzled ticket agent anyway?

No, let me book my travel through Travelocity (picking a site at random), and let Travelocity guarantee my connections and then figure out how to get me to my destination when there's a hiccup. Maybe Travelocity works out a deal with airlines such that a late plane leaves the last airline responsible... or maybe they sue the UFOs that got in the pllane's way. Whatever. Let Travelocity deal with it; so long as they get me to my destination for the price I paid I don't have to care what happens behind the scenes.

Such a guarantee might cost a few bucks extra. That's fine. Travelocity will have access to OTP data for my preferred trip and every possible alternate arrangement, so it can calculate the probability of and costs involved in a delay. These costs are already built into guaranteed connection tickets purchased through airlines and Amtrak, but Travelocity, having more options, would be able guarantee for cheaper. Once you get Orbitz and Priceline in the game as well, the cost of the guarantee would be kept low.

And then there are the cases where you really might not need a guarantee for whatever reason. Maybe you're really religious or a born gambler Either way, why pay for what you don't need? Get a dirt cheap ticket with no connection guarantee and roll the dice through your travels.

Get the picture? In just this one case I think we could get better, more personalized, more efficient service without reliance on the regulation.

SECONDLY, I didn't know about the precise rules. What does "in conjunction" actually require? It sounds like you booked travel from completely different companies, and they still had to see you through to your final destination? That could be a very useful thing for me to know about...

 

[Guest]

As nice as Philzy's idea sounds on paper, I'm not entirely sure what the benefit would be. Frankly, I don't think there's a need for it--passengers will still have to transfer to the appropriate commuter/subway/light rail system at the city's main train station (or an alternate connecting point like BBY), and it's really not much of a hassle to stop at a kiosk, drop a few bucks in, and get a ticket for the local train service.
Rather than spend millions of dollars (maybe even billions) to integrate every American transit agency's system into Amtrak's system (and good luck doing that--most are still trying to figure out the relatively simple process of uploading their data to Google Transit's free trip planner), Amtrak would probably do better to instead look at instituting agreements with transit agencies such that Amtrak tickets give a free transfer to local transit (and Amtrak could figure out a way to track this and, if needed, share revenue with the agencies; logistical issues would be figuring out a system to allow them to be used on transit systems with barrier enforcement) or selling or bundling transit agency tickets with rail tickets (i.e. "book your connecting transit now and save 25%"; logistical issues would be delivering the transit agency's ticket with the Amtrak ticket if the Amtrak ticket is delivered electronically).

I guess I have lost the complete reasoning behind this discussion.

Why really would it benefit anyone, if for example, I could bundle my $800 Amtrak round trip ticket to NYP with a $2 MTA subway ticket? Yea, there are some suggestions that the MTA would simply give away their ticket for free. Interesting assumption, but highly unlikely. Even having the MTA offer a 25% discount is rather unlikely too.

Do any airlines offer free subway tickets, to/from airports? I would find it rather odd if any did, considering the way they charge extra for so many things nowadays.

Just because Amtrak uses cars which ride on tracks, and subways use cars which ride on track, IMHO, they are really two very different modes of transportation. Plus, even though there are some rare exceptions, "mass transist" rails (ie subways) really aren't set up for reservations. I mean, just try calling up the MTA and ask to make a reservation on the red #1 train.

BTW, doesn't AAA Travel handle Amtrak?

 

[p&sr]

BTW, doesn't AAA Travel handle Amtrak?

Sure! Also 10% discount for Members when you reserve at least 3 days prior to your Amtrak departure.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

I'm just imagining the nightmare this would be. Amtrak doesn't want to be responsible for guarenteeing connection to commuter rail. For example, if they sell through tickets from, say, Chicago to Bayhead, NJ (It's the terminus of the NJTransit North Jersey Coast Line, which runs via the former CNJ New York & Long Branch) via the Cardinal, and the train passes Rahway (the last stop before Coast Line trains leave the Corridor- I suppose Amtrak could schedule a pit stop to drop off a few passengers bound for Bayhead that would miss the train further up the line) significantly after 1:17 in the morning (possible- can and has happened in the past) you could argue that Amtrak is responsible for getting you to Bayhead. No matter how "connections can't be guarenteed", you'd have a valid arguement for it.

Much less of a headache to drop you off in Newark and let you figure out the rest.

 

[volkris]

I'm just imagining the nightmare this would be. Amtrak doesn't want to be responsible for guarenteeing connection to commuter rail.

No sane company/organization would make such guarantees for free. Either they would have an increase in ridership sufficient enough to pay for the costs of missed connections or they'd raise ticket prices to cover it. If neither of those works they shouldn't (and I hope wouldn't) make the guarantees.