Also In The News

[Boxcar]

Anyone know why the passengers reported suspicious activity On Amtrak train in Jacksonville, Fla last night? The news report didn't go into it much except to say the passengers and baggage in the last two cars were required to detrain and Amtrak put them up in a hotel overnight......

It didn't say which train but reported that it was 6 hours late into NYC.

Edited....New reports said it was the Silver Star........

 

[AlanB]

It was definately the Silver Star, as one of my friends from OTOL was on the train. He's been phoning in reports to another member of OTOL on his progress. Here's a quick summary:

First, the train was hit by a car in Maitland (near Winter Park). Car lost the battle and was destroyed.
Then when the train got to Jacksonville around 8:45 PM, some suspicious characters aboard the train caused enough suspicion that the train was evacuated and checked for a bomb. Jishnu says all passengers were in and around the station. The train was finally cleared for departure at 2:22 AM.

Currently the train is running down well over 6 hours.

 

[Amtrak OBS Gone Freight]

Just got done reading the thread entitled "shocking!"

It was quite a shock to see #92 leave right on time out of TPA. It was doing so good all the way from MIA until it got to Maitland! Then the crap in JAX! Oh well.........no longer "shocking" now. Always something to happen to screw things up for the train it seems. OBS...

 

[AlanB]

Amtrak spokeswoman Tracy Connell says part of the train was allowed to continue on its route north, but at least two cars towards the rear of the train were disconnected and kept in Jacksonville to allow for further investigation.
About twenty passengers with luggage on the two rear cars were told they would be spending the night in Florida and were taken to local hotels.

The above comes from a story from WUSA9 TV from Washington DC. You can view the full story here.

 

[Boxcar]

Amtrak spokeswoman Tracy Connell says part of the train was allowed to continue on its route north, but at least two cars towards the rear of the train were disconnected and kept in Jacksonville to allow for further investigation.
About twenty passengers with luggage on the two rear cars were told they would be spending the night in Florida and were taken to local hotels.

The above comes from a story from WUSA9 TV from Washington DC. You can view the full story here.

Thanks for this information Alan. I had wondered what activity seemed strange and why the train was allowed to depart but leave behind the passengers from the last two cars. Never occured to me that the last two cars were also left behind. :blink:

 

[AlanB]

For those that are curious, you can read the various reports that Jishnu (my friend from OTOL) phoned in, as well as his follow-up reports on both the accident with the car and the issues in JAX. He even describes precisely what led to the entire incident in JAX.

The report on Jishnu's trip can be found here on the OTOL site.

 

[Sheer Luck Holmes]

You can't beat a bit of racial profiling to ensure a safe trip!

SLH

 

[AmtrakWPK]

From the interviews, I don't think it was racial profiling. It was the behavior. Repeatedly opening and getting into their bags, but not getting anything out, then moving them somewhere else on the train, and doing this over and over, PLUS speaking in a foreign tongue amongst themselves, would CERTAINLY have gotten MY attention, and yours too, I expect, regardless of what they looked like.

 

[AlanB]

From the interviews, I don't think it was racial profiling. It was the behavior. Repeatedly opening and getting into their bags, but not getting anything out, then moving them somewhere else on the train, and doing this over and over, PLUS speaking in a foreign tongue amongst themselves, would CERTAINLY have gotten MY attention, and yours too, I expect, regardless of what they looked like.

Only problem was Amtrak asked them to move their bags elsewhere. They didn't decide to do it on their own.

If you haven't already, I highly suggest reading Jishnu's report that I linked to above.

 

[Boxcar]

From the interviews, I don't think it was racial profiling. It was the behavior. Repeatedly opening and getting into their bags, but not getting anything out, then moving them somewhere else on the train, and doing this over and over, PLUS speaking in a foreign tongue amongst themselves, would CERTAINLY have gotten MY attention, and yours too, I expect, regardless of what they looked like.

Only problem was Amtrak asked them to move their bags elsewhere. They didn't decide to do it on their own.

If you haven't already, I highly suggest reading Jishnu's report that I linked to above.

I think I would have asked them to move them somewhere else also. Like to the middle of Okefenokee Swamp.

 

[AlanB]

From the interviews, I don't think it was racial profiling. It was the behavior. Repeatedly opening and getting into their bags, but not getting anything out, then moving them somewhere else on the train, and doing this over and over, PLUS speaking in a foreign tongue amongst themselves, would CERTAINLY have gotten MY attention, and yours too, I expect, regardless of what they looked like.

Only problem was Amtrak asked them to move their bags elsewhere. They didn't decide to do it on their own.

If you haven't already, I highly suggest reading Jishnu's report that I linked to above.

I think I would have asked them to move them somewhere else also. Like to the middle of Okefenokee Swamp.

They weren't asked to move because they looked suspicious or because they were causing problems. The Amtrak crew asked them to move because they were expecting a large group of 35 to board and then wanted to be able to seat the group together in the rear car.

These 6 people were simply doing what an Amtrak crew member had requested! And because of lack of communication most likely coupled with some racial profiling, these poor people were majorly inconvenienced and hassled.

 

[Boxcar]

From the interviews, I don't think it was racial profiling. It was the behavior. Repeatedly opening and getting into their bags, but not getting anything out, then moving them somewhere else on the train, and doing this over and over, PLUS speaking in a foreign tongue amongst themselves, would CERTAINLY have gotten MY attention, and yours too, I expect, regardless of what they looked like.

Only problem was Amtrak asked them to move their bags elsewhere. They didn't decide to do it on their own.

If you haven't already, I highly suggest reading Jishnu's report that I linked to above.

I think I would have asked them to move them somewhere else also. Like to the middle of Okefenokee Swamp.

They weren't asked to move because they looked suspicious or because they were causing problems. The Amtrak crew asked them to move because they were expecting a large group of 35 to board and then wanted to be able to seat the group together in the rear car.

These 6 people were simply doing what an Amtrak crew member had requested! And because of lack of communication most likely coupled with some racial profiling, these poor people were majorly inconvenienced and hassled.

Oh...Ok Alan, I didn't read that part in Jishnu's posting on OTOL. My question is, Did he say why they were opening and closing their bags(if they were)without removing or placing things into them? Was that part just a foul up in reporting?

I'm also sorry that innocent people were treated that way but I'm afraid that is a coming thing even to Amtrak. I'm referring to the news that certain Senators are calling for more security for sea ports, rails and trucks. I'm sure they are referring to rail freight but could this also include Passenger rails?

 

[AlanB]

My question is, Did he say why they were opening and closing their bags(if they were)without removing or placing things into them? Was that part just a foul up in reporting?

No, he didn't. And I'm not sure if that's because he didn't know, didn't think to mention it, or if it simply wasn't true.

 

[AmtrakWPK]

From a tv news story (linked from OTOL), quoting a passenger that got off in Columbia, SC:

"They were going in and out of their bags and they were never taking anything out of their bags," says Greg Pitts, a passenger who got off the train in Columbia. "They were putting their bags down and they would leave and walk off and then take them and put them other places on the train."

Not having been there at the time, I obviously don't know which version is more accurate, but that passenger's narrative certainly would make me uncomfortable if I had seen what he says he did. Sounds like more than just folks asked by Amtrak to move their bags.

 

[George Harris]

Everybody get a clue here.

If you are going to do something destructive, the last thing you are going to do is "do something that looks suspicious" When you get to that stage of the game where something that is truly suspicious is being done, the plan is in process and the time to call the law is past.

Sounds like there were several bad assumsptions in play here and we must never forget how "assume" breaks down. Otherwise stated, putting 2 and 2 together and getting 22 instead of 4.

George

 

[AmtrakWPK]

If they are "professional" (I hate to use that word about terrorists, but you get my drift) then likely you would be right. If they are "amateurs", then maybe not. If none of them ever acted suspicious then very, very few of them would ever get caught. "The nail that sticks up is the one that gets hammered." The idiot they caught with the shoe-bomb on the airplane several years ago they caught because he was acting suspiciously and was incompetent at what he was trying to do (fortunately for the folks on that airplane).

Behavioral profiling does work. Ask EL-AL. Yes it also gives some false positives, like this one (apparently). That doesn't mean throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Did you follow the links on OTOL and watch the televised interview with that passenger that got off at Columbia SC? He made a pretty good case for checking those folks out.

 

[caravanman]

I love the way innocent travellers are deemed fit to be thrown into a swamp, just because they are foreigners, doing what they were told to do,...God bless America!

Ed.

 

[Boxcar]

I love the way innocent travellers are deemed fit to be thrown into a swamp, just because they are foreigners, doing what they were told to do,...God bless America!Ed.

Better go back and read the previous post of mine before you criticize me or my country.

I advocated the removal of their baggage to the middle of a swamp not the passengers. :angry:

If you have such as dim view of us "Americans" why do you vacation here?

 

[Trogdor]

I love the way innocent travellers are deemed fit to be thrown into a swamp, just because they are foreigners, doing what they were told to do,...God bless America!

Ed.

Better go back and read the previous post of mine before you criticize me or my country.

I advocated the removal of their baggage to the middle of a swamp not the passengers.

With the attitude conveyed in your message, I couldn't tell the difference.

 

[AlanB]

Gentlemen, please.

 

[Boxcar]

I love the way innocent travellers are deemed fit to be thrown into a swamp, just because they are foreigners, doing what they were told to do,...God bless America!

Ed.

Better go back and read the previous post of mine before you criticize me or my country.

I advocated the removal of their baggage to the middle of a swamp not the passengers.

With the attitude conveyed in your message, I couldn't tell the difference.

I don't think it was an attitude problem and I'm sure with just a little thought it would not be hard to realize I was referring with a little dry humor to what was first reported to be suspicious baggage. With that said it still didn't warrant the obvious slur at my country for which I fought and bled for......