Amtrak 64 (Maple Leaf) Dwell Time

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Amtrak57

Train Attendant
Joined
Nov 24, 2019
Messages
36
Why does Amtrak train 64 have so much dwell time compared to the other empire trains? I can kinda get why it has a longer stop in Albany since the engine used to be changed back when the Maple Leaf went to Canada but why the extra 35 ish minutes to get to Schenectady from Amsterdam?
 
Fortunately, I downloaded all Amtrak timetables last fall and early this year after they were updated.

In checking the Empire Service timetables, it's clear that the westbound 'through' trains have 10-20 minute scheduled layovers. I've been inside the station at ALB between 448/48 & 449/49 and literally saw 'hordes' of people coming off the trains from NYP. I'd surmise that NYP-ALB is probably one of the largest passenger city-pairs in the east outside of the electrified territories.

Eastbound is another story. Those dwell times go from 36 minutes for the Maple Leaf down to 20 minutes for the Ethan Allen Express Mon-Sat and a full 30 minutes on Sundays probably the busiest day of the week on that train. The added dwell time is likely there as the named trains have gone 400 or more miles vs 300 to/from Buffalo and likely have lost time enroute. The extra time for the Maple Leaf is likely there due to the time variability of getting through customs.

If one studies the timetables and compare times between stations, typically there's a few minutes padding between the last two stations on the route (or maybe last three) vs the other direction. Extra station dwell time may be extra padding or it could be there to handle larger crowds on some days or seasons. And if one of the through trains (even the Lakeshore Ltd) gets there early from the west, there's even longer dwell time because they cannot leave before scheduled time unless they are 'discharge of passengers only' stations and noted they may leave early.

And amid all that, part of creating schedules has to plan on meets or overtakes at specific locations along the way...not only between passenger trains but with freights as well. So there may seem to be areas of slower running or longer station dwell times to stay in their 'slot'. Back before ALB-SDY had the 2nd track restored a couple years ago, dwell times at ALB were likely longer account opposing traffic on single track. Throw in a late-running opposing movement that is already in that single track, westbound trains from ALB would have to wait it out before they could leave the station.

In short, creating a schedule is more like a 'work of art' such that it can usually be 'kept' and in case of delays, much or all of the lost time can be made up through padding. As a passenger aboard trains that are 'killing time' at a station after the work is completed, it's sometimes frustrating that we have to 'wait time' before leaving. Only railroaders and railfans know why the extra wait. The general public doesn't have a clue.
 
If you go to the track a train ( Amtrak via live map ) and click on the left hand column of all the station times the result will show any planned layovers that are not on the printed schedules.
 
niemi24s, thanks for the link about the pre-Covid timetables.
You're welcome. I tend to bookmark all such miscellany on my PC and am glad that one has remained viable. My printed copy of the timetables is getting a little dog-eared after making countless plans for train trips to and from cruise ports - or train trips just for funsies.
 
Fortunately, I downloaded all Amtrak timetables last fall and early this year after they were updated.

In checking the Empire Service timetables, it's clear that the westbound 'through' trains have 10-20 minute scheduled layovers. I've been inside the station at ALB between 448/48 & 449/49 and literally saw 'hordes' of people coming off the trains from NYP. I'd surmise that NYP-ALB is probably one of the largest passenger city-pairs in the east outside of the electrified territories.

Eastbound is another story. Those dwell times go from 36 minutes for the Maple Leaf down to 20 minutes for the Ethan Allen Express Mon-Sat and a full 30 minutes on Sundays probably the busiest day of the week on that train. The added dwell time is likely there as the named trains have gone 400 or more miles vs 300 to/from Buffalo and likely have lost time enroute. The extra time for the Maple Leaf is likely there due to the time variability of getting through customs.

If one studies the timetables and compare times between stations, typically there's a few minutes padding between the last two stations on the route (or maybe last three) vs the other direction. Extra station dwell time may be extra padding or it could be there to handle larger crowds on some days or seasons. And if one of the through trains (even the Lakeshore Ltd) gets there early from the west, there's even longer dwell time because they cannot leave before scheduled time unless they are 'discharge of passengers only' stations and noted they may leave early.

And amid all that, part of creating schedules has to plan on meets or overtakes at specific locations along the way...not only between passenger trains but with freights as well. So there may seem to be areas of slower running or longer station dwell times to stay in their 'slot'. Back before ALB-SDY had the 2nd track restored a couple years ago, dwell times at ALB were likely longer account opposing traffic on single track. Throw in a late-running opposing movement that is already in that single track, westbound trains from ALB would have to wait it out before they could leave the station.

In short, creating a schedule is more like a 'work of art' such that it can usually be 'kept' and in case of delays, much or all of the lost time can be made up through padding. As a passenger aboard trains that are 'killing time' at a station after the work is completed, it's sometimes frustrating that we have to 'wait time' before leaving. Only railroaders and railfans know why the extra wait. The general public doesn't have a clue.
In miniature, rapid transit schedules often have a minute or even two of padding when approaching a busy trunk line. At I-25 & Broadway in Denver where the C, D, E, F, H-Lines converge there is a slot every three minutes up the Central trunk. Miss that slot and either the trains get out of sequence or the follower ends up "riding on his block" - getting repeated Yellow signals and risking coming up on a Red signal. From Poughkeepsie into NYC Amtrak trains are mixed in with Metro North trains and aside from any legalities, being on time makes your neighbors happier. LA's MTA did not do this at their original LRT merge point and had to pay consultants to tell them to do it.

Also in small numbers railways around the world have similar situations. On the "Main Line of the Cold War" between Helmstedt and Berlin the East and West Germans met in Geneva to negotiate timetables!

German scheduling in the Cold War
 
In miniature, rapid transit schedules often have a minute or even two of padding when approaching a busy trunk line. At I-25 & Broadway in Denver where the C, D, E, F, H-Lines converge there is a slot every three minutes up the Central trunk. Miss that slot and either the trains get out of sequence or the follower ends up "riding on his block" - getting repeated Yellow signals and risking coming up on a Red signal. From Poughkeepsie into NYC Amtrak trains are mixed in with Metro North trains and aside from any legalities, being on time makes your neighbors happier. LA's MTA did not do this at their original LRT merge point and had to pay consultants to tell them to do it.

Also in small numbers railways around the world have similar situations. On the "Main Line of the Cold War" between Helmstedt and Berlin the East and West Germans met in Geneva to negotiate timetables!

German scheduling in the Cold War

Maybe off topic but you have such extensive knowledge from your career. I would encourage you to write a book so this knowledge is never lost.
 
Has Amtrak stopped publishing even "'e'-timetables"? Or hid them so well, I can't find them?
Back when the Palatine Bridge radio stream was still active (2018 and before) I used to listen to the NC dispatcher on my way home from work. Occasionally #64 was following freights and most dispatchers (except for one who retired last spring) would not allow the MAPLE LEAF to overtake the freights. It was pretty busy during the dinner hour.
Andy
 
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