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Mariana

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Hi...can anyone tell me if Amtrak offers Ethernet jacks at seats or if they have internet or actual computers available on the train? I'm doing a school project on Amtrak and any info on Amtrak or what I just asked would be great!! Thanks!
 
Nope, the only way you can get internet on board is by using your cell to hook up or plug into Railfone which is really expensive.
 
At present, Amtrak does not offer internet connections of any type on it's trains.

There have been a few experiments that invoulved wireless internet connections in a few cafe cars. However, at least so far this test has not lead to any type of long term service. In fact I haven't seen those cars in quite some time.

There is supposed to be a new test coming soon on certain Keystone trains, which run between Harrisburg PA and New York City. This test will invoulve screen in the backs of the seats in one or two cars on a train.

Again however, at present there are no ethernet jacks on any trains. Additionally none of the test have invoulved ethernet jacks. Everything so far has been orientated towards wireless connections. The test on the Keystone trains will not allow you to use your own PC, but instead will be something on the order of Web TV.

Hope this helps. :)
 
battalion51 said:
plug into Railfone which is really expensive.
B51,

Do the Railfone's actually have a jack to connect a phone line to a laptop. I've never really looked, but I didn't think that they could hook to a laptop.
 
I seem to recall that you could, just as you could plug a laptop into an Airfone.
 
They are currently running a wifi thing on the Capitols with a couple of the cab cars wired for wifi. Haven't heard much about them but I do know that 6962 is one of the cars.
 
No, Amtrak doesn't have the Internet on board - but you can bring your own thanks to wireless data services from carriers like Sprint and T-Mobile.

I use Sprint and have their unlimited, $10/month PCS Vision service on my phone. While not encouraged by Sprint, you can hook a laptop up to your phone and use it as a wireless modem with ~10-12K/s speeds, and as long as your usage is light, they'll never notice. Alternatively you could get any one of a number of PDA phones that Sprint offers, and be totally within their rules while surfing or responding to email. Handspring's new Treo 600 is arguably the best of the bunch :)
 
Hey, thanks to all of you. It certainly helpmed me a lot!! Any good sites out there with good info on Amtrak other than the official site? I'm searching for sites on yahoo and google, but any suggestion on what you guys think is the best would be great.

Another quick question... why is Amtrak so expensive? I need a good argument for my school project!! lol
 
Mariana said:
Another quick question... why is Amtrak so expensive? I need a good argument for my school project!! lol
Expensive compared to what? :unsure:

In most cases, Amtrak is cheaper than any airline and usually only a little more expensive than Greyhound.
 
I go to PA a lot and it costs me $150 for a one way Acela Express Ticket. If I look in advance I can find a roundtrip plane ticket for less than $100. Greyhound costs me $56 and it's only an hour or two slower than the train.
 
Well in the case of Acela, you are booking a ticket on a premium train and therefore paying a premium price. If you took the slightly slower Regional train, you would spend $74, less with discounts. Additionally with Amtrak you don't need to book in advance to get that rate, unlike the airlines.

It should also be noted that trains on the Boston - NY - DC corridor tend to be the most expensive of all of Amtrak's trains. This is due in part to the fact that Amtrak, just like the airlines, charge what the market will bear.

Consider however that one can travel from Boston to Albany on Amtrak for just $19 one-way. No airline offers a fare that low.
 
Yeah...that makes sense. If Amtrak were to put an internet cafe on board, would the tickets cost more? And what's Amtrak's current target market? Is it the wealthy businessmen mostly? Whenever I'm on the train I see men in suits and laptops. Sorry, for all the questions. I'm doing a marketing project on Amtrak. Alan, you seem to know a lot about Amtrak. Do you have aol messenger or yahoo messenger? Thanks, Mariana
 
Guest_Mariana said:
Yeah...that makes sense. If Amtrak were to put an internet cafe on board, would the tickets cost more?
It's hard to say, but yes they might decide to raise the prices by a few bucks. It would probably depend on how such a service was implemented. If they only had it in the cafe car, then it might be free or maybe a pay per use thing.

On the other hand if they were to install it through out the entire train, then they probably would raise the cost of the tickets to help cover both the installation and the actual service.

Guest_Mariana said:
And what's Amtrak's current target market? Is it the wealthy businessmen mostly? Whenever I'm on the train I see men in suits and laptops.
Yes Amtrak's market for the Acela Express trains is the business traveler, although not necessarily the wealthy business person. In most cases a business traveler will not be planning far enough ahead to get a cheaper airplane ticket, so Amtrak typically costs less even on the Acela trains.

This is especially true when one compares the shuttles to Acela. Except for very rare occasions, Acela is always cheaper than the Delta or US Air Shuttles.

Guest_Mariana said:
Sorry, for all the questions. I'm doing a marketing project on Amtrak.
No problem. :) Ask away, if I can help I will. Even if I don't know the answer, there are many other very knowledgable members who may well know the answer.

Guest_Mariana said:
Do you have aol messenger or yahoo messenger? Thanks, Mariana
No, sorry I don't have either one installed.
 
That's ok...thanks for your answers. I feel bad for Amtrak now that I'm reading all these articles for my project. I don't quite understand why it can never be profitable. Or at least that is what it seems to happen. How come? I guess it's really expensive to maintain a certain infrastructure. Is that why?
 
Infrastructure is part of the problem that Amtrak faces, also the cost of equipment (engines and cars) is a factor.

However transportation of all forms is not truely profitable, meaning that it's not just an Amtrak problem. If Greyhound were forced to pay the true cost of their highway usage, they would be broke. Yes they do pay for permits to use the highways, but that amount is not nearly enough for the wear and tear that the buses create on our roads. The states and federal governments make up the difference.

The same is also true for the airlines. They don't pay for the Air Traffic Control system, the Feds pay for that. They now only pay for about half the new security in the airports, the Feds pay for the rest. Finally almost all of the airports where planes land in this country were built with Federal & State monies, not airline monies.

If the airlines were forced to pay for all of these things fully, they would indeed be broke and out of business. In fact, despite government paying for all of the above things, many airlines are indeed broke. That one reason that the Feds just loaned serveral airlines over 20 million dollars.

The Boston T also does not make any money, in fact some reports that I seen suggest that the T looses more money than many other similar city transportation systems.

The bottom line here is that moving people from one place to another is not a profitable business.
 
Just to expand a bit more on the profit issue.

Even in Europe, where train service is much better than it is here in the USA, the trains don't make a profit. Some of the lines do cover their operating expenses (fuel, salaries, repairs), however none cover their capital expenses (New tracks, new cars, new engines and things like that).

In Amtrak's case, part of the problem has been mismanagement in past years. Part of the problem is the fact that those same Congressmen who won't give Amtrak enough money to do things right, continue to insist that Amtrak serve their state even if that train does not cover it's expenses.

Amtrak is in the unique position of having to management staffs, Congress and then the managers who actually run Amtrak. It’s very hard to serve two masters, especially when their needs are different.

If Amtrak were to be given a realistic budget for the next 5 to 10 years, so that they could afford to buy all new equipment and properly fix the tracks that they do own, Amtrak would then be in a much better position. They might actually at that point have a chance at covering their operating expenses. No matter what, the government will always have to help with the capital expenses.

If they don't help, then they give Amtrak's competitors and unfair advantage. Amtrak could charge more for train fares, if the price for an airline ticket reflected the true cost of the flight. But with the government helping out the airlines, they can have lower fares.

So since Amtrak takes longer to get from point A to point B, than the airplane does, they have to charge less than the airline in order to get people to ride. Otherwise everyone would take the plane, unless they were afraid of flying.

Transportation cost money and somehow, some way, someone has to pay for it. Either the feds help all transportation types or none. If they choose the latter, then this country will come to a standstill. But even with the Feds helping out, no type of transportation really makes money.

Unfortunately for years Amtrak has been the neglected child, so their situation is most critical. They are also the only type of transportation that has to ask for their money year after year. Both the airlines and the highways (buses) have a special trust fund to take money from. Amtrak does not have that luxury. :(
 
Ok...I get it! Which leads to the question I was going to ask, although I think you answered it. In a lot of the things I'm reading they suggest privatizing Amtrak. I thought it already was a private company. When you said it had two managers, does it mean that it's partly owned by the government? I read a lot of this "Amtrak is the unwanted stepchild" thing. I found this pretty interesting article where they talk about getting rid of Amtrak. You probably already seen it

http://cp.yahoo.net/search/cache?p=amtrak+...e.asp%3fID=1714

Thanks, Mariana
 
The Orlando-Los Angeles run. It loses nearly $300 for every passenger it carries. That dog should have been put out of its misery years ago and everybody knows it. So instead Gunn decides to raise a panic by threatening trains like the Metroliner, which carries more passengers between New York and Washington than the two airline shuttles combined. He got his panic, all right. But who in their right mind would pull the plug on routes that turn a profit?
First, let’s do the easy one. The Metroliner/Acela does cover its operating costs. However, it does not turn a profit. With out Federal or State money to buy new equipment and maintain the tracks and wires, this train will cease to run.

Now lets go to the loss on the Sunset Limited. This train continues to be singled out, since it’s numbers look so bad. The reason however that the number looks so bad, is the fact that it only runs 3 days a week. You might ask, well what does that have to do with it’s loosing so much money. Well in addition to the paying engineer’s and crew on the train, the fuel costs, and the food costs; Amtrak also has to allocate the costs of management, reservations, advertising and various other things. These costs are allocated to each route Amtrak runs.

Now for the sake of easy math, I’m going to choose a few numbers here. These are not by any means the real numbers, but they will serve to show what I’m trying to explain here. Let’s say that Amtrak decides that each route it runs gets $1,400 in allocated expenses. If you divide that number by 14 runs a week, the typical long distance train runs 1 a day in each direction, for a total of 14 runs. Well $1,400 in expenses divided by 14 runs means that each train carries 100 bucks in allocated expenses, above and beyond it’s actual costs.

Now let’s look at the Sunset Limited. This train only runs 3 times a week in each direction for a total of 6 runs. Now we take that same $1,400 in allocated expenses and divide it by 6 runs and we discover that each train gets $233.33 in allocated expenses.

This is bit of an over-simplification of the problem, but it does show why the Sunset Limited technically looses so much money.

Hardly. Ridership was up for a few days, but overall, Amtrak did 6 percent *less* business in September 2001 than it had in September 2000. As one member of the Amtrak Reform Council, a federal watchdog panel, put it, "If they couldn't get a spike in ridership when the airlines were shut down, when thousands of people were afraid to fly, when are they going to get it?"
Interesting quote, however what he failed to take into account two things with that statement. One, while Amtrak was done 6% the airlines were down close to 40%. The second thing he didn’t account for here, which also factors in to the percentages, is the simple fact that many people just stopped traveling for both business & pleasure for the first few months after the 9/11 disaster.

So while Amtrak did suffer a ridership loss, it’s loss was now where near as bad as the airlines loss.

Sure. It works in Australia, Canada, Britain, Argentina, and Japan. It works for cars, buses, and airplanes. What *doesn't* work is Amtrak. It's time we derailed it, and let a better rail system get on track.
That’s patently untrue; I don’t know where he got this info. First VIA-Rail (Canada’s passenger service) is owned by the Provincial Government and subsidized by the Government. In Britain they tried to privatize the railroads. That experiment failed miserably. After numerous wrecks with fatalities, Britain is once again putting passenger service back under Government control. Unfortunately they learned their lesson the hard way, as they are now spending almost triple the amount of money there were spending to fix the mistake.

I don’t think that Australia is privately owned, although I’m not positive. I’m not sure about Argentina, although I think it unlikely that it’s privately owned. In Japan, some of the trains are government run, while some are private. However, in all cases the government of Japan has invested Billions of dollars into building a first rate, world-class system. They first had to make the trains fast, new, highly functional; before they could turn them over to private companies. We haven’t done that here. Additionally in Japan, they don’t spend as much money on their highways as we do here. Therefore more people want to or have to take the train. They don’t have a choice.

Now they also talk about in that article, which I actually hadn’t seen even though I’ve seen similar types of articles, about the percentages spent on transportation. First off, we’ve let our trains deteriorate for years, while we poured our monies into the highways and planes. So is it any surprise that more people use the other methods?

We spent years building airports and roads using trillions of dollars, while giving nothing to the railroads. So their infrastructure is now far superior to that of the trains.

Secondly, I’m sure that he’s not considering the cost of the ATC system and the security into his numbers. He’s only using the numbers where the money was directly handed to the airlines.

Third, as anyone knows and as I proved above, those numbers are deceiving simply because you are dividing by a big number.

Had America invested in RR’s like it did in the airlines and highways during the 60’s and the 70’s, then trust me Amtrak’s ridership would be much higher than it is. In which case those percentages would be much closer than they are right now.

Finally to answer your question, Amtrak is considered to be a private company technically. However the owner of almost all of Amtrak’s stock is the Federal Government. You can’t go to a stockbroker and buy Amtrak stock. Since the Government owns the stock, Congress likes to tell Amtrak what to do. It should also be noted that it’s the President, with Senate approval, who appoints the Amtrak board. Normally the shareholders appoint the board in a regular company; here since the government holds most of the shares, they appoint the board. And in many cases these are political appointees, not necessarily someone who actually knows how to run a railroad.
 
In all fairness to commercial aviation, lets not forget that each year over $12.5 billion dollars of what rail supporters call federal “subsidy” comes directly from airline passengers in the form of ticket and fuel taxes and fees. If you fly you pay. If you do not fly you do not pay. These taxes and fees are paid into two accounts, the Airway and Aviation Trust Fund (AATF) and airport Passenger Facility Charges (PFC). The AATF pays for FAA grants and operations, and the PFC pays directly for individual airport projects.

Since 1970, one year prior to Amtrak, these ticket taxes and fees have paid every cent of the federal capital grants for airports, and have even paid for ancillary facilities such as the Newark Airport rail station. Not one cent of general federal tax revenue has gone to airports in over 33 years. The use of the AATF has even been expanded to cover a large part of the day-to-day operating cost of the FAA including air traffic control. In 2002, the general tax subsidy of FAA operations (the portion that comes from all taxpayers, not just airline ticket taxes), including the cost of air traffic control, is about $2.5 billion. This compares to the $1.2 billion subsidy of Amtrak, and commercial air serves 50 times the number of passengers as Amtrak. Since Amtrak tickets are not taxed, and there is no pool of user tax money for rail, every cent of federal support for Amtrak comes from general taxpayers.

I have often heard Amtrak bemoan how poorly they are treated as compared to aviation. I suggest that someday someone should call their bluff. They should be offered the same “subsidy” as commercial aviation. I suggest Amtrak and its supporters would be in for a rude awakening.
 
The same can be said for the MTA in NY. It too serves two masters as well, the Governor and state legislature which apoints it's Board Members it derives it;s revenues from the farebox. It is known in legal-speak as a Public Benefit Corporation.

Black's Law Dictionary defines a "Public Corporation" as:

An artificial person (e.g. municipality or a government corporation) created for the administration of public affairs.  Unlike a private corporation it has no protection against legislative acts altering or even repealing its charter,  Insturmentalities created by state, formed and owned by it or in public interest, supported in whole or in part by public funds, and governed by managers deriving their authority  from state.  A public corporation is an insturmentality of the state founded and owned in the public interest, supported by public funds and governed by those deriving their authority from the state.
Term is also commonly used to distinguish a corporation whose stock is owned and traded by the public from a corporation with closely held shares (i.e. close or private corporation).
Most transit agencies are operated in this fashion probably for budgetary reasons considering they more ofhten than not run in a deficit. The NY MTA in their budget document (which is very long) states it gets 85% of its revenue from the farebox and claims no revenue from the state's general fund. However this is such a money loser that no one would want to touch it.

Amtrak is the same way, private industry dumped the operation of passenger rail onto the federal government and it is operated as a "public corporation."

As for the airports also add that they are operated mostly by either municipal governments or as public corporations reporting to several regional governments.

I was always under the impression that VIA was a Crown Corporation funded completely by the Federal government in Canada? I am curious to know if the provincial governments are involved which ones would they be and what percentage of VIA's total funding are they responsible for?
 
tp49 said:
I was always under the impression that VIA was a Crown Corporation funded completely by the Federal government in Canada? I am curious to know if the provincial governments are involved which ones would they be and what percentage of VIA's total funding are they responsible for?
Oops, poor choice of words on my part. VIA is indeed a Crown Corporation and draws funding from the Federal Government.

I'm not sure, but there is a slight chance however that Quebec province does contribute a little to the Montreal - Toronto corridor.
 
Two quick points:

PRR 60

While what you said about PFC's is true that only pays for airport projects, however the overall administration of an airport can be paid for by people in general especially if the airport is administered by a government which most are. Therefore the possibility is there although again the share that each individual in that municipality would pay is incredibly small, and probably unnoticable to most. However I would disagree with you that no money comes from the general fund to support FAA operations.

The FAA as part of the Department of Transportation does receive money appropriated from the general fund as the President makes a budget appropriations request to the House to either approve, deny or change. While not all of the agency's programs are funded by the general fund functions definitely are. Here is a link to the FAA's FY 2004 budget, and no I am not a rail loving plane hater, I like both aviation and rail about equally.

Alan

I would not be surprised considering the bulk of VIA's service (and a majority of the Canadian population) lives in the Montreal-Toronto corridor if both Quebec and Ontatio contributed to VIA much in the same way the individual states do here.
 
tp49 said:
Two quick points:
PRR 60

While what you said about PFC's is true that only pays for airport projects, however the overall administration of an airport can be paid for by people in general especially if the airport is administered by a government which most are.  Therefore the possibility is there although again the share that each individual in that municipality would pay is incredibly small, and probably unnoticable to most.  However I would disagree with you that no money comes from the general fund to support FAA operations.

The FAA as part of the Department of Transportation does receive money appropriated from the general fund as the President makes a budget appropriations request to the House to either approve, deny or change.  While not all of the agency's programs are funded by the general fund functions definitely are.  Here is a link to the FAA's FY 2004 budget, and no I am not a rail loving plane hater, I like both aviation and rail about equally.

Alan

I would not be surprised considering the bulk of VIA's service (and a majority of the Canadian population) lives in the Montreal-Toronto corridor if both Quebec and Ontatio contributed to VIA much in the same way the individual states do here.
Just to be clear, my original post stated that, in FY2003, about $2.5 billion of the FAA budget, all for operations, came from the general fund and not the AATF. In my opinion, that is the figure that is comparable to the Amtrak subsidy. My point is that the widely held belief that the feds build airports and runways and parking garages for the airlines at the expense of Amtrak is not true.

As for local operating support of day-to-day airport operations, the opposite is usually the case. While some small airport operations may require funding from local municipal budgets, most if not all large airports are cash cows for the operating municipality or authority. For example, in 2002 the Port Authority of NY & NJ showed a net income of $221 million on the operation of the four PA airports in the New York region. That was on gross revenue of $1.5 billion. A 15% profit margin is not too shabby. The airports made more money for Port Authority than any of the other PA operations. I contend that most major airports are in similar shape.
 
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