Amtrak Arizona: a hypothetical description

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micmac99

Train Attendant
Joined
May 22, 2008
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49
Location
Mesa, AZ
NOTE: The information below is hypothetical and is a "wish list" for improved Amtrak service within the state of Arizona, where I currently live. My recent Amtrak experience consists of a few trips to Austin within the last couple of years on the Texas Eagle/Sunset Limited, boarding in Tucson and laying over in San Antonio. I grew up in Oakland, California, and have ridden Amtrak off and on since my early teenage days, going back to my first Amtrak ride between Oakland-Chicago on the California Zephyr in 1984.

This is intended to be in the general style of a Wikipedia article and is actually directly adapted from several existing articles from Wikipedia, the Arizona Rail Passenger Association website and other sources. Access date: sometime in the year 2013.

Please read and review/comment. Thanks a lot.

______________________________________________________

Amtrak Arizona (reporting mark ADTX) is a brand name used by the Arizona Department of Transportation (ADOT) Division of Rail for all state-supported Amtrak rail routes within the U.S. State of Arizona. It also includes an extensive network of Thruway Motorcoach bus connections, operated by private companies under contract.

History

Prior to 2012, rail travel in Arizona was basic and infrequent. In order to relieve traffic congestion on state highways and to expand rail service above a basic level, Arizona began to provide financial assistance to Amtrak. At the same time, the ADOT Division of Rail was formed to oversee state-financed rail operations and the brand Amtrak Arizona started appearing on state-supported routes.

In 2011, Arizona passed Propositions 408 and 416, providing $2.3 billion for transportation projects, with a large portion going to rail service. As a result, new locomotives and passenger cars were purchased by the state, existing national routes serving Arizona were expanded, and one new inter-city route, the Desert Flyer, began operation. A distinct image for Amtrak Arizona, such as painting locomotives and passenger cars in "Arizona Colors", was established with the arrival of new rolling stock.

Another major feature of the 408/416 passage was the purchase by the State of Arizona of the abandoned Union Pacific "West Line" trackage between Phoenix and Yuma. $100 million was allocated to refurbish and restore this line for passenger service.

Phoenix Union Station was reopened to passenger service in January 2012 after being closed since 1996; Valley Metro, the mass transit agency serving Phoenix, operates it under a joint venture with Amtrak Arizona and the national Amtrak organization. An $800,000 refurbishing project was completed to prepare the station to return to passenger service. Half the funds were raised by private donations. The downtown DASH circulator shuttle connects Union Station with Central Station, the main connecting point for Valley Metro Rail and several Valley Metro bus routes.

Also, with the state acquisition of the West Line, station stops in Tempe and Coolidge, closed as part of the 1996 realignment, were reinstated at that time, a new station in Goodyear was opened, to better serve the western suburbs of Phoenix (which grew substantially in the interim period), and the Maricopa station was closed.

Expansion of Sunset Limited and introduction of the Arizona Eagle

The Texas Eagle/Sunset Limited, which before Amtrak Arizona operated three days per week from Los Angeles Union Station, was expanded to daily service.

An additional train, the Arizona Eagle, was inaugurated as a sister train to the Texas Eagle, providing daily Superliner service on the same route of the Texas Eagle (between Los Angeles and Dallas only) but leaving Los Angeles in the early morning hours, providing for departures in Arizona during the day instead of in late evening, as is the case with the Sunset Limited (Arizona Eagle passengers also have no change of trains and/or layover in San Antonio, as is the case with the combined Texas Eagle/Sunset Limited, as the combined train splits its route at San Antonio).

All Arizona/Texas Eagle service uses the national Amtrak livery, although new locomotives (GE Genesis P42DC) and coach cars were purchased with mainly state funding.

The Texas Eagle, Arizona Eagle and Sunset Limited expansion was made possible by additional and supplemental funding from the states of Arizona, New Mexico, Texas and California.

The City of Chicago: Union Pacific gets back in passenger operation

There are plans underway for a third Amtrak interstate route serving Arizona: the City of Chicago. In a dramatic departure from, and modification to, the operating procedure between Amtrak and its host railroads, this train will be 50% funded directly by Union Pacific and have operational and branding aspects similar to Union Pacific passenger trains in the pre-Amtrak era (before the early 1970s). This will be a two-year pilot program.

Rail cars will be brand-new Superliner cars being built specifically for this service by Bombardier in Vermont. Motive power will be brand-new GE Genesis P42DC units commissioned specifically for this service.

Livery will be the national Amtrak livery with the addition of the Union Pacific logo (although there is a possibility the yellow, red and gray Union Pacific livery may be used with the addition of a small Amtrak logo; if implemented this will be the first time Superliner cars are painted in the livery of a heritage/host railroad).

Sleeper, coach and business class service will be provided (business class having wider seats than coach, complimentary non-alcoholic beverages, and all meals delivered to passenger seats, similar to airline meal service; restrooms in the business class car will be on the lower level and be equipped with showers).

On-board service personnel will be Amtrak employees specifically chosen and trained in advanced and enhanced customer relations and safety techniques. (Some new employees will be recruited from furloughed airline service staff.) Consultants who have worked with Southwest Airlines, Continental Airlines and Westin Hotels are working to develop operating procedures and training modules. If successful, these pilot procedures could be implemented across the entire Amtrak system.

Meal service will be adaptations of 1940's and 1950's era service on transcontinental UP diesel streamliners.

This train will leave Los Angeles Union Station roughly during the 9am (PT) hour, travel the same route as the Texas Eagle (with only nominal layovers in San Antonio and Dallas), and terminate at Chicago Union Station.

The City of Chicago is scheduled to begin service in December 2013. If successful, this could be a model for other new Amtrak routes nationwide. Norfolk Southern has expressed interest in 50% funding of routes in the Southeast modeled after the Union Pacific pilot program.

The Desert Flyer

The Desert Flyer is the signature service of Amtrak Arizona, and is a daily all-coach passenger train that travels between Tucson and Flagstaff with a run time of 3 hours and 9 minutes, including intermediate stops at Williams, Ash Fork, Skull Valley (serving Prescott), Wickenburg, Glendale, Phoenix Union Station, Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport, Casa Grande, and Eloy.

The Desert Flyer is wholly owned and financed primarily through funds made available by the Arizona Department of Transportation (ADOT); the Desert Flyer uses mainly refurbished locomotives and Amfleet rail cars decorated with unique Arizona colors and logos. The ADOT operates a dedicated informational website about the state-funded service as well as all other Amtrak trains serving the state (www.AmtrakArizona.org).

The motive power for the Desert Flyer is provided by 3 state-owned locomotives, of which are EMD F59PHIs numbered 1755 (City of Tucson), 1757 (City of Phoenix) and 1760 (City of Flagstaff).

State-owned passenger cars on the Desert Flyer are refurbished Amfleet coach and lounge cars originally built by the Budd Company around 1976-77 for Amtrak, and refurbished to current Amtrak specifications by Amtrak's Beech Grove, Indiana shops. (Three coach cars were constructed from scratch as all-new equipment by Bombardier as part of the Amtrak Arizona order). All cars are equipped with 120v power outlets at each seat for laptop/notebook computers or other electronic devices.

There are four trips in each direction daily for eight trips total:

Northbound:

departs Tucson at 7:00am, Phoenix Union Station at 8:25am, and arrives in Flagstaff by 10:09am.

departs Tucson at 10:00am, Phoenix Union Station at 11:25am, and arrives in Flagstaff by 1:09pm.

departs Tucson at 3:00pm, Phoenix Union Station at 4:25pm, and arrives in Flagstaff by 6:09pm.

departs Tucson at 7:00pm, Phoenix Union Station at 8:25pm, and arrives in Flagstaff by 10:09pm.

Southbound:

departs from Flagstaff at 7:30am, Phoenix Union Station at 8:55am, and arrives in Tucson at 10:40am.

departs from Flagstaff at 1:30pm, Phoenix Union Station at 2:55pm, and arrives in Tucson at 4:40pm.

departs from Flagstaff at 5:30pm, Phoenix Union Station at 6:55pm, and arrives in Tucson at 8:40pm.

departs from Flagstaff at 7:30pm, Phoenix Union Station at 8:55pm, and arrives in Tucson at 10:40pm.

Onboard services include coach, business class, and a cafe car. The consist is one business class, one cafe car, and two coach cars.

Business Class seats are larger than those in coach. Business Class is located at the front of the Cafe Car. Business Class passengers receive complementary non-alcoholic beverages and free copies of either USA TODAY, the Wall Street Journal, the Arizona Republic or the Arizona Daily Star. The seats are in a 1x2 style (as opposed to the 2x2 configuration of the Amfleet coach) and feature leather upholstery, cup holders and leg rests. These seats also recline to a more "sofa recliner style" and feature more legroom than the coach seats in the other cars.

Business Class passengers have complimentary access to ClubAmtrak lounges in Flagstaff, Phoenix and Tucson. The lounges offer complimentary drinks, personal ticketing service, lounge seating, conference areas, computer/internet access (including WiFi), print, copy and fax services, and televisions tuned to CNN, the Weather Channel and/or ESPN. ClubAmtrak access is available to all passengers for $50 for a one-day pass (in addition to the ticket price) or $150 for a year's membership, which also allows access to similar facilities at other Amtrak stations around the country.

All stations along the route offer free wireless Internet service as a joint venture between Amtrak, ADOT and T-Mobile®.

Service may be extended to Nogales and/or Douglas in the future as funding permits. Currently, Amtrak Thruway bus service connects Nogales and Douglas to Tucson.
 
I admire the dedicated effort you put into this. :)

Having grown up in Arizona, I kind of question the need for daily coach service to Ash Fork, Williams and particularly Wickenburg. Can you explain your rationale here?

Also, I highly doubt the UP (or any private freight RR in the U.S.) would go back into the passenger business. It simply doesn't pay. Can you elaborate on what sort of reason or incentive UP would have to enter into a public-private partnership such as this one?
 
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NOTE: The information below is hypothetical and is a "wish list" for improved Amtrak service within the state of Arizona, where I currently live. My recent Amtrak experience consists of a few trips to Austin within the last couple of years on the Texas Eagle/Sunset Limited, boarding in Tucson and laying over in San Antonio. I grew up in Oakland, California, and have ridden Amtrak off and on since my early teenage days, going back to my first Amtrak ride between Oakland-Chicago on the California Zephyr in 1984.
This is intended to be in the general style of a Wikipedia article and is actually directly adapted from several existing articles from Wikipedia, the Arizona Rail Passenger Association website and other sources. Access date: sometime in the year 2013.

Please read and review/comment. Thanks a lot.

______________________________________________________

Amtrak Arizona (reporting mark ADTX) is a brand name used by the Arizona Department of Transportation (ADOT) Division of Rail for all state-supported Amtrak rail routes within the U.S. State of Arizona. It also includes an extensive network of Thruway Motorcoach bus connections, operated by private companies under contract.

History

Prior to 2012, rail travel in Arizona was basic and infrequent. In order to relieve traffic congestion on state highways and to expand rail service above a basic level, Arizona began to provide financial assistance to Amtrak. At the same time, the ADOT Division of Rail was formed to oversee state-financed rail operations and the brand Amtrak Arizona started appearing on state-supported routes.

In 2011, Arizona passed Propositions 408 and 416, providing $2.3 billion for transportation projects, with a large portion going to rail service. As a result, new locomotives and passenger cars were purchased by the state, existing national routes serving Arizona were expanded, and one new inter-city route, the Desert Flyer, began operation. A distinct image for Amtrak Arizona, such as painting locomotives and passenger cars in "Arizona Colors", was established with the arrival of new rolling stock.

Another major feature of the 408/416 passage was the purchase by the State of Arizona of the abandoned Union Pacific "West Line" trackage between Phoenix and Yuma. $100 million was allocated to refurbish and restore this line for passenger service.

Phoenix Union Station was reopened to passenger service in January 2012 after being closed since 1996; Valley Metro, the mass transit agency serving Phoenix, operates it under a joint venture with Amtrak Arizona and the national Amtrak organization. An $800,000 refurbishing project was completed to prepare the station to return to passenger service. Half the funds were raised by private donations. The downtown DASH circulator shuttle connects Union Station with Central Station, the main connecting point for Valley Metro Rail and several Valley Metro bus routes.

Also, with the state acquisition of the West Line, station stops in Tempe and Coolidge, closed as part of the 1996 realignment, were reinstated at that time, a new station in Goodyear was opened, to better serve the western suburbs of Phoenix (which grew substantially in the interim period), and the Maricopa station was closed.

Expansion of Sunset Limited and introduction of the Arizona Eagle

The Texas Eagle/Sunset Limited, which before Amtrak Arizona operated three days per week from Los Angeles Union Station, was expanded to daily service.

An additional train, the Arizona Eagle, was inaugurated as a sister train to the Texas Eagle, providing daily Superliner service on the same route of the Texas Eagle (between Los Angeles and Dallas only) but leaving Los Angeles in the early morning hours, providing for departures in Arizona during the day instead of in late evening, as is the case with the Sunset Limited (Arizona Eagle passengers also have no change of trains and/or layover in San Antonio, as is the case with the combined Texas Eagle/Sunset Limited, as the combined train splits its route at San Antonio).

All Arizona/Texas Eagle service uses the national Amtrak livery, although new locomotives (GE Genesis P42DC) and coach cars were purchased with mainly state funding.

The Texas Eagle, Arizona Eagle and Sunset Limited expansion was made possible by additional and supplemental funding from the states of Arizona, New Mexico, Texas and California.

The City of Chicago: Union Pacific gets back in passenger operation

There are plans underway for a third Amtrak interstate route serving Arizona: the City of Chicago. In a dramatic departure from, and modification to, the operating procedure between Amtrak and its host railroads, this train will be 50% funded directly by Union Pacific and have operational and branding aspects similar to Union Pacific passenger trains in the pre-Amtrak era (before the early 1970s). This will be a two-year pilot program.

Rail cars will be brand-new Superliner cars being built specifically for this service by Bombardier in Vermont. Motive power will be brand-new GE Genesis P42DC units commissioned specifically for this service.

Livery will be the national Amtrak livery with the addition of the Union Pacific logo (although there is a possibility the yellow, red and gray Union Pacific livery may be used with the addition of a small Amtrak logo; if implemented this will be the first time Superliner cars are painted in the livery of a heritage/host railroad).

Sleeper, coach and business class service will be provided (business class having wider seats than coach, complimentary non-alcoholic beverages, and all meals delivered to passenger seats, similar to airline meal service; restrooms in the business class car will be on the lower level and be equipped with showers).

On-board service personnel will be Amtrak employees specifically chosen and trained in advanced and enhanced customer relations and safety techniques. (Some new employees will be recruited from furloughed airline service staff.) Consultants who have worked with Southwest Airlines, Continental Airlines and Westin Hotels are working to develop operating procedures and training modules. If successful, these pilot procedures could be implemented across the entire Amtrak system.

Meal service will be adaptations of 1940's and 1950's era service on transcontinental UP diesel streamliners.

This train will leave Los Angeles Union Station roughly during the 9am (PT) hour, travel the same route as the Texas Eagle (with only nominal layovers in San Antonio and Dallas), and terminate at Chicago Union Station.

The City of Chicago is scheduled to begin service in December 2013. If successful, this could be a model for other new Amtrak routes nationwide. Norfolk Southern has expressed interest in 50% funding of routes in the Southeast modeled after the Union Pacific pilot program.

The Desert Flyer

The Desert Flyer is the signature service of Amtrak Arizona, and is a daily all-coach passenger train that travels between Tucson and Flagstaff with a run time of 3 hours and 9 minutes, including intermediate stops at Williams, Ash Fork, Skull Valley (serving Prescott), Wickenburg, Glendale, Phoenix Union Station, Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport, Casa Grande, and Eloy.

The Desert Flyer is wholly owned and financed primarily through funds made available by the Arizona Department of Transportation (ADOT); the Desert Flyer uses mainly refurbished locomotives and Amfleet rail cars decorated with unique Arizona colors and logos. The ADOT operates a dedicated informational website about the state-funded service as well as all other Amtrak trains serving the state (www.AmtrakArizona.org).

The motive power for the Desert Flyer is provided by 3 state-owned locomotives, of which are EMD F59PHIs numbered 1755 (City of Tucson), 1757 (City of Phoenix) and 1760 (City of Flagstaff).

State-owned passenger cars on the Desert Flyer are refurbished Amfleet coach and lounge cars originally built by the Budd Company around 1976-77 for Amtrak, and refurbished to current Amtrak specifications by Amtrak's Beech Grove, Indiana shops. (Three coach cars were constructed from scratch as all-new equipment by Bombardier as part of the Amtrak Arizona order). All cars are equipped with 120v power outlets at each seat for laptop/notebook computers or other electronic devices.

There are four trips in each direction daily for eight trips total:

Northbound:

departs Tucson at 7:00am, Phoenix Union Station at 8:25am, and arrives in Flagstaff by 10:09am.

departs Tucson at 10:00am, Phoenix Union Station at 11:25am, and arrives in Flagstaff by 1:09pm.

departs Tucson at 3:00pm, Phoenix Union Station at 4:25pm, and arrives in Flagstaff by 6:09pm.

departs Tucson at 7:00pm, Phoenix Union Station at 8:25pm, and arrives in Flagstaff by 10:09pm.

Southbound:

departs from Flagstaff at 7:30am, Phoenix Union Station at 8:55am, and arrives in Tucson at 10:40am.

departs from Flagstaff at 1:30pm, Phoenix Union Station at 2:55pm, and arrives in Tucson at 4:40pm.

departs from Flagstaff at 5:30pm, Phoenix Union Station at 6:55pm, and arrives in Tucson at 8:40pm.

departs from Flagstaff at 7:30pm, Phoenix Union Station at 8:55pm, and arrives in Tucson at 10:40pm.

Onboard services include coach, business class, and a cafe car. The consist is one business class, one cafe car, and two coach cars.

Business Class seats are larger than those in coach. Business Class is located at the front of the Cafe Car. Business Class passengers receive complementary non-alcoholic beverages and free copies of either USA TODAY, the Wall Street Journal, the Arizona Republic or the Arizona Daily Star. The seats are in a 1x2 style (as opposed to the 2x2 configuration of the Amfleet coach) and feature leather upholstery, cup holders and leg rests. These seats also recline to a more "sofa recliner style" and feature more legroom than the coach seats in the other cars.

Business Class passengers have complimentary access to ClubAmtrak lounges in Flagstaff, Phoenix and Tucson. The lounges offer complimentary drinks, personal ticketing service, lounge seating, conference areas, computer/internet access (including WiFi), print, copy and fax services, and televisions tuned to CNN, the Weather Channel and/or ESPN. ClubAmtrak access is available to all passengers for $50 for a one-day pass (in addition to the ticket price) or $150 for a year's membership, which also allows access to similar facilities at other Amtrak stations around the country.

All stations along the route offer free wireless Internet service as a joint venture between Amtrak, ADOT and T-Mobile®.

Service may be extended to Nogales and/or Douglas in the future as funding permits. Currently, Amtrak Thruway bus service connects Nogales and Douglas to Tucson.
What! Even in your fevered dream you can't include a station stop in Tempe. You must have picked up the wrong sugar cube.
 
I admire the dedicated effort you put into this. :)
Having grown up in Arizona, I kind of question the need for daily coach service to Ash Fork, Williams and particularly Wickenburg. Can you explain your rationale here?

Also, I highly doubt the UP (or any private freight RR in the U.S.) would go back into the passenger business. It simply doesn't pay. Can you elaborate on what sort of reason or incentive UP would have to enter into a public-private partnership such as this one?
Thanks, just having a little fun and using my imagination - as well as the power of "copy and paste".

Wickenburg is a fairly important statewide tourist stop and in such close proximity to Phoenix to almost be considered part of the Phoenix area itself (maybe not so much in years past but absolutely so nowadays). It is the main "gateway" to US 93 which is the main highway to Las Vegas from the Phoenix area. With the building of the Hoover Dam Bypass and the bridge over the Colorado River that will improve driving time between Phoenix and Las Vegas, look for Wickenburg to only increase as a regional focal point in the next 3-5 years. As for Ash Fork and Williams, I have no knowledge of how heavily, or lightly, stations there would be used, but I don't see any reason why, since this is an existing rail line, these intermediate stops would not be on a Flagstaff-Tucson schedule. And I feel that any intra-state rail service in Arizona must be daily. It does not have to be sleeper, but can follow the model of the Piedmont/Carolinian service which is fairly successful in North Carolina, as well as the excellent model of Amtrak California. The Piedmont is all coach, I rode it several years back when I was a graduate student in Raleigh.

http://www.azrail.org/trains/intercity/intercityvision/

"ARPA recommends that...a section of the Southwest Chief be split at Williams Junction to serve Phoenix and Tucson. Assuming the current Southwest Chief schedule, the trip between Williams and Phoenix would be overnight, with sleeping accommodations provided. Station stops would include at least Williams, with its connection to the Grand Canyon Railway; Wickenburg; Glendale; and Phoenix. A stop at Skull Valley could offer a bus connection to Prescott. Connecting trains and buses would provide additional connections to southeastern Arizona.

This train would facilitate the strong demand for travel between southern Arizona and the Midwest, and between southern Arizona and the Grand Canyon. Mail and express packages, which Amtrak already carries in trucks between Phoenix and Williams Junction, would provide additional revenue..."

As for host railroads getting back into passenger operation: I was inspired by the existing "business trains" and similar special excursion/showcase trains which the heritage railroads operate to this day in their own equipment and livery. Serious railfans know about these trains, report on and take photos of them. UP has excellent examples of this phenomenon, with many recent photos available on Flickr and railfan websites. I have also seen some Norfolk Southern examples.

Some limited re-funding of one or two trains would serve as a good public relations mechanism for not only Amtrak, but for the host railroads, which are seen almost as "enemies" of Amtrak. It would help to bring intercity rail travel up from its "stepchild' status in the national transportation system.

I am not well-versed on revenue and cash flow of the host railroads, but I would assume that UP makes enough in freight revenues to fund part of a pilot project to improve/bolster their PR image, which has taken hits in recent years, nationwide.
 
ummm...why can't there be a stop in Tempe??? It's on the main line I'm referring to and was a regular stop until 1996! What sugar cubes are YOU smokin? :rolleyes:
 
I congratulate you on your vivid imagination and am not being sarcastic. Some of your ideas have merit. I can hardly imagine Union Pacific jumping into this idea with any enthusiasm. Some huge carrot would have to be dangled in front of their noses. I know that the " Peavine " line from Willaims to Phoenix had passenger service at one time, but it is a rather circuitous route, and frankly can't see your timings from Flagstaff to Phoenix being done in anything close to that time, having followed some of its more remote reaches on dirt road with my car. Thanks for making some interesting reading.
 
Here's another view based on a study done by a professional consulting firm. The group whose website is cited here is in favor of treating the corridor between Phoenix and Los Angeles as critical for Amtrak service.

http://www.southwestrail.org/corridor/costs

(excerpts below)

Projected fares:Based on current Amtrak fares for similar city pair distances and the Kimley-Horn study, we project fares of Phoenix to Tucson $23 each way, Phoenix to Los Angeles $60 each way.

Benefits of the SWRC to Arizona:

* Links Arizona’s major population centers (Tucson and Phoenix) to southern California.

Phoenix — Los Angeles ranks as the 14th most heavily traveled metro pair in the country.

* Train service can be implemented concurrently with the widening of I-10, and can act as congestion mitigation during the construction of new lanes. (note: as of spring 2009, this widening project is underway in the western suburbs of Phoenix)

* Offers alternatives to increasingly congested roads and the hassles of air travel. (note: this study was done in 1998 and of course does not factor increased security in commercial aviation due to 9/11)

* Complements existing and improved bus and rail networks in Phoenix, Tucson, and Los Angeles.

* Provides transportation options to increase mobility and economic development.

Funding:

Depending on the operator selected (e.g. Amtrak, state, other private operator) varying amounts of funding would be provided by the operator. Other potential funding sources include:

* Federal Government

* Federal Transit Administration (50/50 split with state)

* Federal Highway Administration (congestion mitigation)

* Currently there are several bills before congress (e.g. Ride 21, HSRIA) that would increase funding for passenger railroads.

* State Government - Legislature would have to identify funding to support rail.

* Private - The operator of the line (e.g. Amtrak, other) would become a partner with the state/federal government and contribute a share.
 
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Hey! I want a list of your references! All Wikipedia articles should have proper sourcing and attribution, you know! Until I see references, I refuse to believe what you write! :p

Seriously, great article. I only hope it comes true...
 
Hey! I want a list of your references! All Wikipedia articles should have proper sourcing and attribution, you know! Until I see references, I refuse to believe what you write! :p
Seriously, great article. I only hope it comes true...
Actually Arizona could do a lot with rail. A semi-high speed diesel service to Tucson 100 miles away could be built for a very reasonable cost. Tying together the SWC and the Texas Eagle (and the Grand Canyon Railway) through a link to Flagstaff would be interesting.

The value of "true" HSR to San Diego just seems self-evident to me, although apparently not to anyone else. Both cities are huge. Phoenix is the size of Philadelphia and San Diego is nearly as big. The service in connection with the planned California HSR project would mean that the only short-haul air service into beleaguered Lindbergh field in San Diego would be Las Vegas. No new airport for San Diego need be built. Thats $6 billion in savings right there, making the net cost of the service only $2 billion. Of course the deal is off unless there is a train that leaves to Yuma at precisely 3:10.

You are talking about a state that would rather save $3.35 than have a tax supported institution like that. Besides, illegal immigrants might try and take the train. Then what?
 
The value of "true" HSR to San Diego just seems self-evident to me, although apparently not to anyone else. Both cities are huge. Phoenix is the size of Philadelphia and San Diego is nearly as big. The service in connection with the planned California HSR project would mean that the only short-haul air service into beleaguered Lindbergh field in San Diego would be Las Vegas. No new airport for San Diego need be built. Thats $6 billion in savings right there, making the net cost of the service only $2 billion. Of course the deal is off unless there is a train that leaves to Yuma at precisely 3:10.
Well, there's currently a 3:11 to Yuma (if you board the Sunset Limited in Pomona :lol: ).
 
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