Amtrak Badly Needs All Bedroom Viewliner Sleepers

[dlagrua]

This years train trip next month will take us to Chicago on the Capitol Limited. It is a Superliner train and has over a dozen bedrooms available . We booked one going both ways for this trip and it was around $300 each way.

As is our tradition we will soon start planning for our next trip. Among the cities we are considering visiting are New Orleans and Indianapolis, served by the Crecent and Cardinal that originate in NYC. Both are Viewliner trains and like the LSL the sleeper cars on both contain mainly Roomettes. We find that only two bedrooms per sleeper car are available and even if you book 9 months out the prices are over $500 per night while the roomettes are about $166. We have nothing against roomettes but my wife is 6' tall and I'm 5 11" which makes it a bit tight in a roomette.

My point is that Amtrak makes it very expensive to book a bedroom on these LD Viewliner trains as they keep the supply limited. I am just hoping that the next generation of Viewliners are designed with more bedrooms so that taller travelers like ourselves can book a somewhat affordable bedroom. We understand that overnight bedroom accomodations will never be cheap and we don't mind spending $300 or so extra for a room but on those Viewliner trains we've seen rooms priced at over $800. That IMO is an insane pricing level. For that little cubby hole of a room you pay more than for a suite at the Ritz Carlton.

We are just hoping that on the next generation of Viewliners, Amtrak will add a sleeper car with all bedroom so that taller passengers will be able to have a bedroom at the same price as on the Capitol, Autotrain, EB or CZ . With Amtrak there is no uniformity of price. Low bucket for one train sometimes equal high bucket for the next. Point is that Amtrak needs to make some changes if they want to continue to keep growing,

 

[Cho Cho Charlie]

We have nothing against roomettes but my wife is 6' tall and I'm 5 11" which makes it a bit tight in a roomette.

Wow, of all the possible complaints with the Viewliners, I have never thought of ceiling height has being one of them. The roomettes on a Viewliner have much higher ceilings than the roomettes on a Superliner. I would think that even a 6' 11" tall person would easily be OK.

 

[Guest]

With Amtrak there is no uniformity of price. Low bucket for one train sometimes equal high bucket for the next. Point is that Amtrak needs to make some changes if they want to continue to keep growing,

That is a thing that I wish they would fix. Trying to do revenue management with fully refundable tickets is just stupid and unfair. I mean I can book a few rooms very early and run up the price for other people and then return them back at one week prior to departure. Then the next sap in line that didn't have the good sense to book early gets the low priced deal. I really wish they would do something like VIA or Greyhound would do with a set price based on a set number of days prior that you book. If they want to play the revenue management game they need to do it right and not make almost every ticket fully refundable.

 

[BuzzKillington]

Wow, of all the possible complaints with the Viewliners, I have never thought of ceiling height has being one of them. The roomettes on a Viewliner have much higher ceilings than the roomettes on a Superliner. I would think that even a 6' 11" tall person would easily be OK.

Its probably not the room when you're standing that you have to worry about, its the room when you are sitting and need someplace to put your legs... I can understand that.

 

[fredevad]

Wow, of all the possible complaints with the Viewliners, I have never thought of ceiling height has being one of them. The roomettes on a Viewliner have much higher ceilings than the roomettes on a Superliner. I would think that even a 6' 11" tall person would easily be OK.

Its probably not the room when you're standing that you have to worry about, its the room when you are sitting and need someplace to put your legs... I can understand that.

Not only that, but what about sleeping? Are there differences in the length of the beds in a roomette vs. bedroom? I know the roomette beds run along the side of the car, and in the bedroom they run across the car from the side of the car to the hallway. (Not that I've ever experienced either, but I paid attention during the equipment tours at NTD!)

 

[Notelvis]

I think I'd like to see Amtrak manufacture Viewliner Sleeper/Lounges. Have six bedrooms in one half of the car and a 1st class lounge (kind of like the old Seaboard Sun Lounge cars) in the other half.

Add one of these new sleeper/lounge cars to every consist and you have doubled the available bedroom space plus added a 1st class lounge area onboard.....helping justify those sleeper fares.

Win, win.

 

[dlagrua]

Wow, of all the possible complaints with the Viewliners, I have never thought of ceiling height has being one of them. The roomettes on a Viewliner have much higher ceilings than the roomettes on a Superliner. I would think that even a 6' 11" tall person would easily be OK.

Its probably not the room when you're standing that you have to worry about, its the room when you are sitting and need someplace to put your legs... I can understand that.

Exactly. When you sit in a roomette the leg room is tight. Now add two 6' people to the opposing seats and its gets very tight.

 

[MikefromCrete]

I think I'd like to see Amtrak manufacture Viewliner Sleeper/Lounges. Have six bedrooms in one half of the car and a 1st class lounge (kind of like the old Seaboard Sun Lounge cars) in the other half.
Add one of these new sleeper/lounge cars to every consist and you have doubled the available bedroom space plus added a 1st class lounge area onboard.....helping justify those sleeper fares.

Win, win.

I like your idea, it adds extra bedrooms, while at the same time enhances the the first class experience. Send this off to Amtrak marketing and planning ASAP.

 

[dlagrua]

With Amtrak there is no uniformity of price. Low bucket for one train sometimes equal high bucket for the next. Point is that Amtrak needs to make some changes if they want to continue to keep growing,

That is a thing that I wish they would fix. Trying to do revenue management with fully refundable tickets is just stupid and unfair. I mean I can book a few rooms very early and run up the price for other people and then return them back at one week prior to departure. Then the next sap in line that didn't have the good sense to book early gets the low priced deal. I really wish they would do something like VIA or Greyhound would do with a set price based on a set number of days prior that you book. If they want to play the revenue management game they need to do it right and not make almost every ticket fully refundable.

The fully refundable fare policy is a good one as one never knows when a family emergency comes up and you have to cancel the trip. The downside is that it allows the travel agencies and the scalpers to buy up all the sleepers en masse at low bucket on the first day of sale and then the vultures leave the expensive remnants for all the rest of us so we pay through the nose. It would be one thing if the scalpers kept the bedrooms but as pointed out in many cases they return them after all the rest of us get a screw job on the price. I tell you its not fair.

The fairest way would be as suggested- a fixed rate based on the day of the advanced booking but unfortunately Amtrak is following the fare model that the airlines use in that the prices rise as the seats are sold off.

 

[MattW]

But that decreases uniformity of equipment unless EVERY Viewliner is fitted with all bedroom modules at one end then a lounge module(s) at the other end. So, no, the half bedroom half lounge probably will never happen.

The double level Superliners have the advantage in that they have more room to put the other required amenities such as bathrooms, shower room, but with the Viewliners you have to balance revenue space with amenities. Frankly, I'd rather Amtrak keep uniform cars and have more revenue space.

 

[cpamtfan]

Will we ever see all Bedroom/Half Lounge Sleepers in the next 20 years?

Probably not.

Why?

Amtrak doesn't want extensively different cars.

Before the Heritage rebuild era, they had loads of cars from other rrs. They cleaned out plenty of "Non-matching cars".

Then there were the Amfleet Is, they had different seating arrangements (Club-coach, Club Dinette, etc), but Amtrak had to sideline those cars because there was no real place to put them after a while once they came up with:

BC Coach 960s), CC (68-72), Dinette (After the Acela cafe debackle) (24-32 NR), and Club Dinette (24 NR, 18).

As many know, however, these former "Out of the ordenary" pre-Amtrak/Amfleet cars have either:

Met the torch

Were saved but sit unused (Madison, Illinois has a big yard full of those cars)

Became private varnishes

And with the Amfleets, rebuilt with the stimulus money, turning most into coaches, but some into Dinettes.

 

[MikeM]

I think I'd like to see Amtrak manufacture Viewliner Sleeper/Lounges. Have six bedrooms in one half of the car and a 1st class lounge (kind of like the old Seaboard Sun Lounge cars) in the other half.
Add one of these new sleeper/lounge cars to every consist and you have doubled the available bedroom space plus added a 1st class lounge area onboard.....helping justify those sleeper fares.

Win, win.

I like your idea, it adds extra bedrooms, while at the same time enhances the the first class experience. Send this off to Amtrak marketing and planning ASAP.

Ditto. You're a genius, wonderful idea. Gives you somewhere to sit when you can't sleep thinking about the $800 you paid for your bedroom.

 

[Cho Cho Charlie]

Ditto. You're a genius, wonderful idea. Gives you somewhere to sit when you can't sleep thinking about the $800 you paid for your bedroom.

$800? Try $1,600 since the remaining bedrooms would need to pay double to make up for the half-a-car's worth of bedrooms lost to the lounge.

 

[Cho Cho Charlie]

My post got me thinking....

How many bedrooms could you add, replacing the roomettes? Four, maybe (yielding 6 + "H"). Those four bedrooms would need to bring in 12 roomettes worth of revenue.

So, 1 bedroom would be 3x the price of a roomette. OK, that's actually about right. You got my approval to proceed.

 

[dlagrua]

I think I'd like to see Amtrak manufacture Viewliner Sleeper/Lounges. Have six bedrooms in one half of the car and a 1st class lounge (kind of like the old Seaboard Sun Lounge cars) in the other half.
Add one of these new sleeper/lounge cars to every consist and you have doubled the available bedroom space plus added a 1st class lounge area onboard.....helping justify those sleeper fares.

Win, win.

I like your idea, it adds extra bedrooms, while at the same time enhances the the first class experience. Send this off to Amtrak marketing and planning ASAP.

Ditto. You're a genius, wonderful idea. Gives you somewhere to sit when you can't sleep thinking about the $800 you paid for your bedroom.

All I'm asking for are Viewliner trains where they can offer more bedrooms than they now have and sell them at a price comparable to what they charge on the Superliners. Sure I'd like to see the lounge bedroom cars but lets shoot low. I just suggest that Amtrak does it like the Superliners with 50% roomettes and 50% bedrooms in the sleeper cars. I see no logic in the reasoning behind the two bedroom per car capacity of the Viewliners. Perhaps Amtrak believes that most people prefer roomettes???.

 

[Notelvis]

Ditto. You're a genius, wonderful idea. Gives you somewhere to sit when you can't sleep thinking about the $800 you paid for your bedroom.

$800? Try $1,600 since the remaining bedrooms would need to pay double to make up for the half-a-car's worth of bedrooms lost to the lounge.

This kind of logic drives too many decisions and has contributed to the state of affairs we have today in most things..... not just rail passenger service.

It's unlikely my suggestion ever comes to pass (although an all-bedroom viewliner would also add a 'non-standard' car to the fleet...)

I'm just thinking that the Pacific Parlour Cars on the Coast Starlight are perhaps the one thing that sets that train apart from the rest of the LD network. Why not bring a little of the Coast Starlight to the single-lvel LD's?

 

[DAWall]

Ditto. You're a genius, wonderful idea. Gives you somewhere to sit when you can't sleep thinking about the $800 you paid for your bedroom.

$800? Try $1,600 since the remaining bedrooms would need to pay double to make up for the half-a-car's worth of bedrooms lost to the lounge.

This kind of logic drives too many decisions and has contributed to the state of affairs we have today in most things..... not just rail passenger service.

It's unlikely my suggestion ever comes to pass (although an all-bedroom viewliner would also add a 'non-standard' car to the fleet...)

I'm just thinking that the Pacific Parlour Cars on the Coast Starlight are perhaps the one thing that sets that train apart from the rest of the LD network. Why not bring a little of the Coast Starlight to the single-lvel LD's?

This could become a glass half full or half empty argument, Pros, you have a lounge car generating half its revenue....con's you have sleeper losing half its revenue. so sorry for the pun, depends on what side of the tracks your from.

 

[MikeM]

Ditto. You're a genius, wonderful idea. Gives you somewhere to sit when you can't sleep thinking about the $800 you paid for your bedroom.

$800? Try $1,600 since the remaining bedrooms would need to pay double to make up for the half-a-car's worth of bedrooms lost to the lounge.

This kind of logic drives too many decisions and has contributed to the state of affairs we have today in most things..... not just rail passenger service.

It's unlikely my suggestion ever comes to pass (although an all-bedroom viewliner would also add a 'non-standard' car to the fleet...)

I'm just thinking that the Pacific Parlour Cars on the Coast Starlight are perhaps the one thing that sets that train apart from the rest of the LD network. Why not bring a little of the Coast Starlight to the single-lvel LD's?

This could become a glass half full or half empty argument, Pros, you have a lounge car generating half its revenue....con's you have sleeper losing half its revenue. so sorry for the pun, depends on what side of the tracks your from.

Or, as in the case of the Coast Starlight, you have an added feature that drives improved ridership, improves loyalty and repeat business, and as a side benefit maybe even takes a bit of the load off of the diner or snack coach... I think the "double pricing" for reduced bedroom argument isn't that convincing. But, leaving utopia for a moment, I suspect the thing that'd kill this little bit of nirvana would be the desire of Amtrak management to standardize the number of cars at the lowest possible level, something this wouldn't help much. But we can dream, a little bit, be it sleeper car only lounge space, or functioning car washes that clean windows adequately...

 

[Guest]

All I'm asking for are Viewliner trains where they can offer more bedrooms than they now have and sell them at a price comparable to what they charge on the Superliners. Sure I'd like to see the lounge bedroom cars but lets shoot low. I just suggest that Amtrak does it like the Superliners with 50% roomettes and 50% bedrooms in the sleeper cars. I see no logic in the reasoning behind the two bedroom per car capacity of the Viewliners. Perhaps Amtrak believes that most people prefer roomettes???.

It is either a few bedrooms or lots of roomettes. So a few people can sleep lying down in bedrooms or a much more significant number of people can sleep lying down in roomettes. Sure we would all like bedrooms, but there is just not the equipment availability to make that happen. Personally I am more than happy in a roomette, all I need is a flat bed.

 

[caravanman]

In a way, these things are "market driven". Why do people want to sleep on a train, when they could make the same trip by air? Why do folk want to sleep on a train when they could drive, stop overnight in a hotel, and drive on next day. It is not in Amtraks revenue interests to provide cheap sleeping berths. Its main task is to fill coach seats. If you have x number of sleeping berths selling at mega premium prices 10 months ahead, why would Amtrak want to change that? More sleeper berths would mean more staff costs, and more risk of having to sell unused rooms at lower prices.

So why do folk sleep on trains, and what is it worth to them? I have no idea why other people book a sleeper compartment. I know why I do, but I am a train fan, a train enthusiast, just along for the ride. These things tend to be self levelling... by that I mean that it the bedrooms are too expensive to buy, they will drop in price till enough people bite... It is the market forces in play that you Americans love so much! From my point of view, I stick to what I said 18 months ago... The cheap years of Amtrak riding are now over, where it come to sleeping accom. at least...

I love trains, Amtrak, but the sleeper prices are just crazy at the moment... my next visit will have to be a compromise, getting off the train at night, a mix of bus, train, and hotel, or the car hire option. It would cost me more at present to just book a roomette from Chicago to Emeryville, one way, than to fly from London to Chicago and back... sleepers are not good value for me, but great for Amtrak.

Ed

 

[Guest]

But, leaving utopia for a moment, I suspect the thing that'd kill this little bit of nirvana would be the desire of Amtrak management to standardize the number of cars at the lowest possible level, something this wouldn't help much. But we can dream, a little bit, be it sleeper car only lounge space, or functioning car washes that clean windows adequately...

What if instead of all this half and half business it was a full first class lounge car, but have it built so that it would transition easily to a baggage car at the last part of its life cycle. I just hate seeing money put into new baggage cars when it should be put into things the passenger will actually use.

 

[dlagrua]

All I'm asking for are Viewliner trains where they can offer more bedrooms than they now have and sell them at a price comparable to what they charge on the Superliners. Sure I'd like to see the lounge bedroom cars but lets shoot low. I just suggest that Amtrak does it like the Superliners with 50% roomettes and 50% bedrooms in the sleeper cars. I see no logic in the reasoning behind the two bedroom per car capacity of the Viewliners. Perhaps Amtrak believes that most people prefer roomettes???.

It is either a few bedrooms or lots of roomettes. So a few people can sleep lying down in bedrooms or a much more significant number of people can sleep lying down in roomettes. Sure we would all like bedrooms, but there is just not the equipment availability to make that happen. Personally I am more than happy in a roomette, all I need is a flat bed.

OK lets say that Amtrak reduced the roometes to 50% and just charged us double for a bedroom. Same space and same revenue. That would bring the cost for a bedroom to about $330 per night, high but not exhorbitant. While roomettes are great for one when you have a 6' tall wifey sharing it, the leg space during the day is cramped in one of those. I'm not against roomettes but for two taller people they are just not right for us

 

[jis]

What if instead of all this half and half business it was a full first class lounge car, but have it built so that it would transition easily to a baggage car at the last part of its life cycle. I just hate seeing money put into new baggage cars when it should be put into things the passenger will actually use.

If passengers actually don't use baggage cars for their baggage, then that argument would hold

 

[Traingeek]

I disagree on all bedroom viewliner sleepers for some routes. As a single person who loves Trains, I don't want to spend $300 a night for a Bedroom. A Viewliner roomette is perfect for the Single traveler. I am willing to pay in points and money for that Roomette like I hope to do in September to Atlanta.

 

[Ispolkom]

What if instead of all this half and half business it was a full first class lounge car, but have it built so that it would transition easily to a baggage car at the last part of its life cycle. I just hate seeing money put into new baggage cars when it should be put into things the passenger will actually use.

If passengers actually don't use baggage cars for their baggage, then that argument would hold

And after watching the crew use hammers and crowbars for 15-20 minutes to open the Empire Builder's baggage car last Christmas, I agree these cars really need to be replaced.