Amtrak CEO says passenger trains may not run over track without PTC

Help Support Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum:

jis

Conductor
AU Lifetime Supporter
Gathering Team Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2003
Messages
27,488
Location
Space Coast, Florida, Area code 3-2-1
I guess we can kiss goodbye to Atlantic Coast service for a while, if the thing about not running on PTC waivered track comes to pass that is....


Such an excellent excuse to kill select LD trains, no?
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Steve4031

Conductor
AU Supporter
Joined
Aug 27, 2002
Messages
5,985
Location
Chicago
Wow!! This is serious. I’m booked on the capitol limited next month. Pretty sure that sections of that route do not have ptc.

This is really a poor response to these accidents.

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum
 

stappend

Train Attendant
Joined
Nov 8, 2016
Messages
60
"But, on sections of track where a railroad is required to install PTC yet has made insufficient progress to apply for a waiver, "Amtrak will suspend operations until such time as the carrier becomes compliant with the law," Anderson says. "

With the wording of this, I would interpret this to mean after the deadline for installation.
 

Lonestar648

Conductor
AU Supporter
Joined
May 17, 2015
Messages
2,793
Once suspended, I seriously doubt the route would be restarted. Is there an accurate database of track having PTC completed and operational? I didn't think any of the Hosts were complete or near completion.
 

niemi24s

Conductor
Joined
Feb 11, 2015
Messages
2,549
I interpret it to mean if the host railroad has made sufficient progress in applying for a waiver - or has applied for a waiver - Amtrak will continue to operate there.

Have yet to find a map showing the details, and this https://www.fra.dot.gov/app/ptcprogress seems only a general picture.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

bmjhagen9426

OBS Chief
Joined
Apr 16, 2014
Messages
766
Location
Klamath Falls, Oregon
Union Pacific posts its quarterly PTC progress report to its website: A small portion of their trackage "does not require PTC". Wonder what that means for the CS south of SJC, Heartland Flyer, and the Zephyr between PRO and GJT after December.
 

jis

Conductor
AU Lifetime Supporter
Gathering Team Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2003
Messages
27,488
Location
Space Coast, Florida, Area code 3-2-1
I sincerely hope so. Otherwise this just becomes a replay of the unintended consequences that followed the old !CC 79mph rule.
Please explain.

jb
The intention of the ICC order was to enhance safety by requiring all routes on which trains were to run at higher than 79mph to be equipped with specific signal and automatic stop equipment. The primary result of it was to have most speeds reduced to 79 mph rather than getting upgraded signal and control systems.

The fear is that at least on secondary routes which would not otherwise require PTC the freight railroads will simply do nothing an passenger trains would have to be either rerouted on some other route or simply dropped, unless of course public funding covers for the PTC deployment.
 

priller

Train Attendant
Joined
Jun 15, 2014
Messages
46

PRR 60

Conductor
Staff member
Administator
Moderator
Joined
Feb 18, 2003
Messages
8,367
I changed the title of this topic from "will not" to "may not" to better reflect Mr. Anderson's testimony.
 

PRR 60

Conductor
Staff member
Administator
Moderator
Joined
Feb 18, 2003
Messages
8,367
Mr. Anderson's written testimony can be found HERE.
 

Just-Thinking-51

Conductor
AU Lifetime Supporter
AU Supporter
Joined
Sep 17, 2009
Messages
2,059
Location
USA
Cardinal Route is going to be a issue. A short line host has no plans for PTC. Has a waiver from the FRA. Amtrak was against CSX leasing these tracks out to a short line. Due to fears that the short line was unable to keep the track conditions suitable for passenger trains. Not sure Mr Anderson just kill off the Cardinal or just mess up while talking to Congress.
 

PRR 60

Conductor
Staff member
Administator
Moderator
Joined
Feb 18, 2003
Messages
8,367
Two portions of Mr. Anderson's testimony addressing "dark territory" operations:

Third, there are areas over which we operate for which there is an FRA “Mainline Track Exclusion” in place exempting that segment from the PTC requirements based on the low levels of freight and passenger train traffic or the presence of low-speed operations, such as in yards and terminals. We are currently reviewing our policy on operating passenger trains on Exclusions to determine whether we have adequate safety mitigation practices in place for each territory and in certain areas, where signal systems are not in place, we will reconsider whether we operate at all.
Building on the changes to our operations when signals are unavailable, Amtrak will change how we operate through sections of track with no signals at all, so-called ‘dark territory,’which is also exempted from the PTC mandate. Approximately 1 percent of our current or planned routes transit through dark territory, totaling 222 miles in Indiana, Maine, New York, Quebec, and Vermont. We believe it is time to reevaluate the risks that accompany such operations and adopt a new approach, particularly as the implementation of PTC will provide even greater safety margins beyond traditional railroad signaling on the vast majority of our routes. Based on hazard analyses and mitigation options, the application of new technologies like switch position indicators; altered operating practices; signal system and PTC investments or rerouting or route abandonments may all be appropriate for such dark territory. Working together with our host railroads and local stakeholders, we need to quickly evaluate the risks and take the necessary steps to ensure we don’t leave sections of our network unnecessarily vulnerable.
 

jis

Conductor
AU Lifetime Supporter
Gathering Team Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2003
Messages
27,488
Location
Space Coast, Florida, Area code 3-2-1
Cardinal Route is going to be a issue.
What about the Zephyr? UP says that PTC is not required between Provo and Grand Junction.
If FRA agrees then I would be very surprised if Amtrak would overrule FRA and still refuse to operate. If they do that could be indicative of Amtrak administration's desire to use this as an opportunity to prune the LD network. but I don;t believe that is on the cards.
 

Palmetto

Conductor
AU Supporter
Joined
May 12, 2014
Messages
2,237
Location
Miami
How many of Amtrak's current LD routes are expected to reach 100% PTC with no waivers?
Don't know, but BNSF says it's now 100% compliant. So, the Cascades between Portland and the Canadian Border, the Empire Builder [assuming a re-route between Chicago and MSP], and Chicago-Denver.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

jis

Conductor
AU Lifetime Supporter
Gathering Team Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2003
Messages
27,488
Location
Space Coast, Florida, Area code 3-2-1
How many of Amtrak's current LD routes are expected to reach 100% PTC with no waivers?
Don't know, but BNSF says it's now 100% compliant. So, the Cascades between Portland and the Canadian Border, the Empire Builder [assuming a re-route between Chicago and MSP], and Chicago-Denver.
And Southwest Chief except for La Junta to Albuquerque or perhaps Isleta (of which la Junta to somewhere in NM is BNSF that is not compliant). Also Illinois Zephyr.

In the Q3 '17 report BNSF said it was non compliant in 10 segments (11%) consisting of about 1,207 miles (11%)
 
Last edited by a moderator:

stappend

Train Attendant
Joined
Nov 8, 2016
Messages
60
Some of his comments could be for congress or a negotiating tactic. He also said NJT could be blocked from the NEC because they won't be compliant for their personnel and equipment. They also owe Amtrak a ton of money they they are refusing to pay.
 
Top