Amtrak Genesis at Harmon(mncr)

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A_Nonny_Moose

Train Attendant
Joined
Aug 8, 2004
Messages
17
Two Amtrak Genesis are sitting ideling at Harmon shop(mncr) for two days now. also two Genesis were reported sitting near the secaucus transfer in New Jersey. Are these maybe same units or protect power for convention.
 
A_Nonny_Moose said:
Two Amtrak Genesis are sitting ideling at Harmon shop(mncr) for two days now. also two Genesis were reported sitting near the secaucus transfer in New Jersey. Are these maybe same units or protect power for convention.
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One of two things:

1. Amtrak sold off a several of their P-40 units, which could have already been purchased by either Metro North or NJ Transit.

2. They are protect units in case of an emeragancy in Penn Station during the RNC.
 
Im suprised they pulled an NOL Intercity pool and an Northeast unit to be these protect units, I think they should station two P40s there constantly for protection at all times! I think there is a diesel (like a switcher, or GP7 or something constantly assigned to be protection there).
 
Thought I heard a "blurb" on the TV, about some type of problem and Penn Station was mentioned. :eek:

Sorry, But I can't recall the problem! :blink:

MJ B)

P.S. Remember seeing it on the ticker of some cable news. :rolleyes:
 
Since they are P42's it does not make any sense that they are there for protect reasons, or at least not for the RNC. Diesel are not allowed in Penn for any reason. Only a P32 AC-DM would make sense as a protect unit.

They could be used outside of the Penn area, but not within.

Even during the great blackout, the LIRR had to get special permission just to run a diesel engine into the East River tunnels to rescue the two LIRR trains that died within the tunnels when power went out.

The two stalled trains sat in the tunnels, with passengers, for almost 4 hours. Part of the problem was simply getting a diesel engine into the area, since there were no signals and no switches. But then it took over an hour to obtain permission from NYC to run a diesel motor in the tunnel.
 
Alan, could they be waiting for that very reason- in case something was to happen to imobilize electric units in the tunnels and station area like a blackout. Maybe preparing for the worst in case something as bad as the blackout were to happen to the Penn Station and the Hudson River tunnels?
 
Ed,

I suppose that there is a slight chance of that, however the fact that the engines have been seen at Croton-Harmon kind of defeats that theory. If they were sitting at Secaucus, that would make sense for a possible rescue role.

Croton-Harmon would not be a good rescue point however. First off, it's simply too far from Penn at a distance of 33 miles away. Even at track speed it takes close to 45 minutes to cover that ground. During a blackout, it would probably take at least 2 hours, maybe more depending on how many stalled Metro North trains were in the way.

Secondly, any Amtrak train running on that route would already be running behind a diesel engine, so it wouldn't need rescueing.

Finally, MN has its own diesel fleet and Croton Harmon is the main repair shop for diesels, so there is always extra power around.
 
But since they are there, I would think that they would be protect engines for MetroNorth rather than Amtrak.
 
efin98 said:
But since they are there, I would think that they would be protect engines for MetroNorth rather than Amtrak.
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Still the wrong place for protect engines, 30 miles away from the city. They need to park them at Highbridge yard or near MO tower where the Hudson line diverges from New Haven and Harlem lines.

Plus I don't think that MN is that hard up for power.
 
A_Nonny_Moose said:
Allan its only Amtrak policy to not run Diesel in Penn Station. there is no law prohibiting use of Diesels in both Penn Station or GCT. there use to be a law but:Law on engines in city.
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Hmm, interesting read. I'm not sure if he's right or not though.

I can't say why, but I do know that the LIRR still did need to get permission to enter the East River tunnels with a diesel to rescue the stalled trains. My scanner was one of the few things still working during the great blackout last year.

So in addition to listening to subway evacuation, I was also able to hear the LIRR in eastern Queens, and Amtrak both PSCC & Sunnsyide yard. I listened to the LIRR work that rescue diesel through Queens and onto Amtrak trackage outside the tunnels. It then sat there for a while, as the Amtrak dispatcher held him while trying to get permission to run a diesel in the tunnel and he wasn't seeking permission from the higher-ups at Amtrak.

As for the MN side of things, they've been running diesels into GCT for years. Especially before they got the new P32 AC-DM motors. The FL9's started having big problems running on third rail, so most of the time they never switched over to third rail.

I didn't even know that there was a law about steam in those tunnels. In fact those tunnels have ventalation for steam/diesel on Park Ave. The law that I heard governed trains south of 42nd Street, which doesn't apply to GCT.
 
Heres a little theory I just came up with why the Genesis units are at Croton Harmon, since its Metro North's main shop area, they are checking the units out to get familiar with them before they purchase some of those P40s for sale for use on the non-third rail lines? Just a theory
 
Maybe they put it there just to make people wonder. Saying "Hmm, why is there a Genesis unit at Croton?"
 
P40Power said:
Heres a little theory I just came up with why the Genesis units are at Croton Harmon, since its Metro North's main shop area, they are checking the units out to get familiar with them before they purchase some of those P40s for sale for use on the non-third rail lines? Just a theory
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It was confirmed by a MetroNorth employee on railroad.net that they are in fact going to be bought by MetroNorth to be used in the Connecticutt branch line service and would allow for the final retirement of the remaining FL9s and F10s owned by the state of Connecticutt.
 
But why would Amtrak send P-42's? The 42's are a completely different setup from a P-40. The Brake Stand is different, along with a few other minor differences, but the Brake Stand is the big thing.
 
temporary holdovers until the ones being purchased by MetroNorth are OK for commuter rail service? Or to add extra service immediately for the holiday weekend while the new units are enroute to MetroNorth?
 
battalion51 said:
But why would Amtrak send P-42's? The 42's are a completely different setup from a P-40. The Brake Stand is different, along with a few other minor differences, but the Brake Stand is the big thing.
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Well who knows, Amtrak does alot of strange things that boggle the mind. For example why did they (or still are) use Amfleet II coaches on the relitively short haul Pennslyvanian?

Dont get me wrong Amtrak does make good choices too, but I hate to say it they also make more then their share of bonehead moves as well.

But could they possibly upgrade the P40s up to P42 like status with an updated brake stand, and how is the brakestand different?
 
Dose CDOT own the P32ac-dm's? I thought the ones in the new haven lively were used on the branches. Seeing that the branchline trains have no use for a locomotive that can utilize 3rd rail, it sounds like a good idea. Hopefully the Fl9's are not scrapped and preserved for museums.
 
Both C-Dot and MN own P32 AC-DM's. They not only get used on the branch lines off of the New Haven, but they get used on the Harlem & Hudson main lines. On the Hudson line, which is not electrified past Croton-Harmon, the diesels run thru from Poughkeepsie to GCT. On the upper Harlem line and on the branch lines off of the New Haven, the diesels only run thru to GCT during rush hours.

Therefore a P40 could be used for shuttle service on the upper Harlem and the New Haven branches.

As for what livery the loco has, you can forget about where you should see it. MN moves both locos and cars between lines pretty much at will. The only cars you'll never see elsewhere than the New Haven are the MU's which have the pantagraph and third rail shoes. But push/pull cars and locos wander all over the MN system.

There are already several FL9's in musuems to my knowledge.
 
P40Power said:
But could they possibly upgrade the P40s up to P42 like status with an updated brake stand, and how is the brakestand different?
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It's a waste of money. Many Engineers prefer the P-40 brake stand because it runs more like an F-40's, and isn't an electronic applicator like a 42's is. It's just like being qualified territory, you just have to be familiar with it to know it, same thing applies to the brakes.
 
since the news just broke on WB11 the four engines two in secaucas and two in Harmon were used tonight as escape pods incase the president had to get away from it all.

they are currently sitting near Penn station.
 
Still doesn't make sense why it was P-42's. Wouldn't it MAKE SENSE to use P-32 AC-DM's? Wait. This is a Government and Amtrak operation we're talking about.
 
Just not enough P32acdm's around to have 4 of them sitting around for escape pods., if they did that they would need to substitute P42's on reveneu trains.
 
You could get away with 2, a P32 coupled up to a P-42 for Third Rail pick up, then fire up the Diesels when you get out of the tunnels.
 

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