Amtrak heritage cars retirement thread

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Ah...I'd heard that Augusta had been delivered but didn't know if it was in service. I did not know about Atlanta, but that's probably because today was the first day...;-)

My guess is that Amtrak keeps the 11 remaining Heritage diners "active" thru the end of the fiscal year, at least, just in case some problem erupts with the Viewliner IIs. In this case it isn't a question of "spares" as much as it is not wanting to have an Acela-style problem break out and suddenly having nothing in use.

Geez...since they've been leaning towards using these on the Meteor lately, that means there's a passing chance my last meal in a Heritage diner might've happened about two weeks ago (and it would have been the new quesadilla at lunch coming into Orlando, following a creole egg bowl).
 
brianpmcdonnell17 said:
Are there really still 11 active heritage diners? That would mean there are 15 total diners, and the Crescent, SM, and LSL only require 11. Are they so unreliable that there needs to be more than 4 not in a consist at a given time?
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Anderson said:
Remember, you need 11 "live" diners (4 Meteor, 4 Crescent, 3 LSL). You then need at least one more as a maintenance spare and another as a protect in NYP. The other two are probably in CHI and MIA.

(Bear in mind that you've got four "spare/protect" cars covering a base of 11, but if you were running 22 diners on the same combo of routes you'd probably only need one added spare. Such is the nature of fleet scaling efficiency that you can go from 80% of your fleet in service to around 88-90% since protect equipment needs rise on a scale that is much closer to logarithmic than linear...and while your maintenance cycle is pretty linear, unless you're going to short your protect set you're always going to need at least one car in there.)

Edit: Wait, wouldn't 11 active Heritage diners mean there were 13 in service? There's only Indianapolis and Annapolis in use at the moment IIRC (the "diner lite" doesn't count IMHO...it's a "pure" protect car...and 13 would mean 11 "live", a protect in NYP, and one car expected to be down for maintenance at any given time).
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If either of you recall, the Lake Shore hasn't carried a full dining car in almost a year. As such, you need 8 for daily service with a 11 heritage diners in service. Up until recently, there were two viewliner cars available. Now, there are four.

As for protection, it is unlikely some of them will stick around for long.
 
If they can still be used , they should keep them around for extra protection. If nothing else, they could serve as "axle count cars"...
 
Not unlike the AEM-7s, a bunch of the retired 1700 series Heritage Bags are bored and will head to Pueblo for their new gig.

The Chief (13) should be quite photogenic.
 
A note on the Axle counts, the Wolverine has also been having an axle-count baggage car put onto it lately. However they've been using one of the Viewliners rather than a heritage car.

peter
 
KnightRail said:
Here is what is still rolling:

Axle count bags:

1159

1709

1738

1753

1760

1761

Diners:

8505

8507

8509

8510

8512

8527

8530

8531

8532

8550

8553
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Thanks for this.
I will note that most of these surviving dining cars are of NP or CB&Q origin (both of whom ordered very similar cars). Most have the Temoinsa Rebuild.

The exceptions are:

-- 8509, Northern Pacific without a rebuild. Some museum might want this one.

-- 8512, NY Central from 1948 and without a rebuild -- a truly exhausted car. A museum would be very likely to want it, though the private car market or tourist railroads might snap it up. It seems startlingly close to original condition so I hope an operating museum gets it.

-- 8527, Southern Pacific (but rebuilt)

-- 8530, Pennsy origin, possibly the car with the largest number of rebuildings ever to run on Amtrak: originally not a diner at all! Probably the least historic value of any car unless some way could be found to illustrate the process of conversion!

-- 8550, BN origin, converted to a "griddle diner"

-- 8553, NY Central from 1948 (but rebuilt)

I am vaguely astounded that the *1948* cars are outlasting many of the cars from the 1950s. They are sixty-nine years old.

I hope at least one car with a Temoinsa interior goes to a railroad museum. It's of historic value at this point.
 
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Much as CAF needs to make deliveries at better than a glacial pace (and the Heritage diners days are numbered regardless), there is a part of me that would like to see one of those 1948 cars survive just six more months - seventy years of service.
 
A Voice said:
Much as CAF needs to make deliveries at better than a glacial pace (and the Heritage diners days are numbered regardless), there is a part of me that would like to see one of those 1948 cars survive just six more months - seventy years of service.
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Me too...like to see one of those CZ cars go to VIA Rail to be restored to serve on the Canadian... :)
 
It is time for an update:

1738, 1760 and 1761 are still on patrol as axle count cars. The 1753 is down but not out and may see life again.

As for dining cars, the 8505, 8507,8510,8530,8531, 8550 and 8553 are still hanging on, probably enjoying a break while the LDSL fleet expands their numbers.

Enjoy them if you happen to see them.
 
Could you move a little faster said the swallow to the fly; there is a porpoise close behind me and he is troddimg on my tail.
 
Since their dates are approaching, I suspect we've seen the last of the 8505, 8507 and 8550. A few more will likely drop off by March. We're getting down to the last heritage diners.
 
If nothing else, I wish they would keep them as axle count or emergency training cars. Run them until the wheels are the only thing left!

Plus, let's be honest. Nothing that has appeared in the last 50 years will EVER give you the solid, comfortable ride of a heritage car.
 
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I'll be honest nothing will ever kill a Budd built car. I have a feeling some are going to get bought by our friends in the Great White North according to some friends of mine who were wondering why they buy second hand equipment.
 
8550 can soon be struck from the active list. Left Hialeah yesterday. Currently on 51 headed for the Grove by way of Chicago.
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With the 8507 and the 8531 heading to Beech Grove, pickings are getting slim.

Here's what seems to be left:

Axle Count Bags:

1159
1709
1738
1753
1760
1761

Axle Count Diners:

8505
8530
8531

In Service Diner:

8510
 
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IndyLions said:
Which one was on the back end of the Cardinal arriving in Indy this morning? I saw a Heritage Diner but didn’t catch the number.

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum
Click to expand...
It was 8507 former Northern Pacific Budd built dining car No. 463 for the North Coast Limited (Chicago-Seattle/Portland) assembled in 1957. Also one of the cars with a complete Termossia rebuild. Likely going to the deadline at Beech Grove awaiting a buyer either for scrap, pv, tourist railroad, or the great white north.
 
Seaboard92 said:
IndyLions said:
Which one was on the back end of the Cardinal arriving in Indy this morning? I saw a Heritage Diner but didn’t catch the number.

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum
Click to expand...
It was 8507 former Northern Pacific Budd built dining car No. 463 for the North Coast Limited (Chicago-Seattle/Portland) assembled in 1957. Also one of the cars with a complete Termossia rebuild. Likely going to the deadline at Beech Grove awaiting a buyer either for scrap, pv, tourist railroad, or the great white north.
Click to expand...
Had lunch and dinner in 8507 on the Fourth of July last year on the Crescent. I'm going to shed a tear with the retirement of the old diners.
Outside of axle count cars, the last run of a Heritage diner will mark the end of an era.

Sent from my Moto Z2 Play using Amtrak Forum mobile app
 
Northeastern292 said:
Seaboard92 said:
IndyLions said:
Which one was on the back end of the Cardinal arriving in Indy this morning? I saw a Heritage Diner but didn’t catch the number.

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum
Click to expand...
It was 8507 former Northern Pacific Budd built dining car No. 463 for the North Coast Limited (Chicago-Seattle/Portland) assembled in 1957. Also one of the cars with a complete Termossia rebuild. Likely going to the deadline at Beech Grove awaiting a buyer either for scrap, pv, tourist railroad, or the great white north.
Click to expand...
Had lunch and dinner in 8507 on the Fourth of July last year on the Crescent. I'm going to shed a tear with the retirement of the old diners.
Outside of axle count cars, the last run of a Heritage diner will mark the end of an era.

Sent from my Moto Z2 Play using Amtrak Forum mobile app
Click to expand...
I was on #98 on Fourth of July last year and unfortunately ended up with a V-II diner. Had I been traveling one day earlier or later I would have gotten a Heritage diner, and I was pretty heartbroken about that. Yes, the old cars were kind of run down and were on their last legs, but they were beautiful and gave me a glimpse of the 'Golden Age of Rail' so long ago.

Goodbye Heritage Fleet, I will miss you.
 

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