Amtrak Issues RFP for New Viewliners

[Amtrak839]

Sorry if someone else has brought this up already.

Amtrak intends to issue a competitive Request for Proposal for a vendor to design, manufacture and deliver 130 “Viewliner 2” Long Distance Single-Level Passenger Cars, with an option for Amtrak to purchase up to an additional 70 cars. The “Viewliner 2” rolling stock which is fully described in the Technical Specifications, will be used as Amtrak passenger trains, primarily in long-distance service, but capable of operating anywhere within Amtrak’s system. There are four (4) “Viewliner 2” car types: Diners, Sleepers, Baggage-Dorms and Baggage cars. The “Viewliner 2” cars will be modeled on the concept of the Amtrak “Viewliner 1” cars.

The anticipated dates for procurement and award of Request for Proposal #X-047-9167-001 are as follows:

TASKS: ANTICIPATED DATES:

Amtrak issues RFP Week of June 22, 2009

Mandatory Pre-Proposal Meeting July 23 and 24, 2009 in Miami, FL

Due Date for submission of written proposals October 20, 2009

Oral Presentation from Short-Listed Companies Week of January 11, 2010

Contract Award Week of May 24, 2010

Notice to Proceed Week of June 28, 2010

Amtrak, at its sole discretion and without discussion, will determine which Proposers will be added to its bid list. ONLY Proposers that can meet the minimum qualifications listed below should E-MAIL or MAIL a request for the Request for Proposal Package on company letterhead to:

Ms. Virginia Squitieri

Senior Director, Capital Equipment

National Railroad Passenger Corporation

30th & Market Streets, 5th Floor, Box 12

 

[bretton88]

This is good news! It actually seems like a firm commitment by Amtrak! Isn't it more that what we thought (75) it would be?

 

[SUNSETLIMITED01]

This is good news! It actually seems like a firm commitment by Amtrak! Isn't it more that what we thought (75) it would be?

Those were just the the baggage and baggage dorm cars. They had 25 additional vieliner sleepers, 25 viewliner diners as well. Looks like they bumped it up from 125 to 130 cars now.

 

[amtrakwolverine]

no viewliner coaches. amtrak NEEDS single level coaches also.

 

[cpamtfan]

no viewliner coaches. amtrak NEEDS single level coaches also.

They have 120 Amfleet II coaches which are perfectly acceptible.

cpamtfan-Peter

 

[Long Train Runnin']

no viewliner coaches. amtrak NEEDS single level coaches also.

Its not quite a desperate as they make it seem. The Viewliners aren't the answer. They need more corridor cars. Luckily the stimulus money gives Amtrak a little help.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

no viewliner coaches. amtrak NEEDS single level coaches also.

That's probably what the additional 75 car option is for.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

no viewliner coaches. amtrak NEEDS single level coaches also.

Its not quite a desperate as they make it seem. The Viewliners aren't the answer. They need more corridor cars. Luckily the stimulus money gives Amtrak a little help.

What are you talking about, Steve? They have plenty of Corridor cars.

Here is the plan that has been explained to me:

125 Bi Level cars for midwestern service.

Midwestern Amfleets -> Northeast Corridor.

New California/Surfliner cars, California Amfleets -> Northeast Corridor.

75 Viewliner coaches.

Amfleet II coaches -> Adirondack, Carolinian, Vermonter.

Adirondack, Carolinian, Vermonter Amfleet I -> Northeast Corridor.

Horizons -> Capacity overruns and protection service on NEC routes.

With the 140 or so Amfleets that will free up and the 60 Amfleets being repaired now, in the next 5-6 years 'bout 200 Amfleets will be added to the Corridor. I think that will cover any problems they're having with capacity, for now. After all, the main capacity issues on the corridor are and will remain the North River tunnels, the Baltimore tunnels (to be rectified) and the bridge between OSB and New London.

 

[MikeM]

Thanks Lion for your recap of all the pending car movements. I'm also pretty happy that Amtrak has gotten moving on ordering some new cars, particularly sleepers. For once in a long time, we have an administration that supports Amtrak, need to seize the opportunity to address the capital starvation Amtrak has suffered through the past decade or two. (in truth, most of Amtrak's life).

One thought, does anyone anticipate any additional orders for Superliners, or does Amtrak plan on just redistributing the current fleet. Green Maned Lion mentioned a plan for 125 Bi-Level cars for midwestern service, will these be Superliners or based on some other design? Any idea when the RFP or order may be placed?

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Thanks Lion for your recap of all the pending car movements. I'm also pretty happy that Amtrak has gotten moving on ordering some new cars, particularly sleepers. For once in a long time, we have an administration that supports Amtrak, need to seize the opportunity to address the capital starvation Amtrak has suffered through the past decade or two. (in truth, most of Amtrak's life).
One thought, does anyone anticipate any additional orders for Superliners, or does Amtrak plan on just redistributing the current fleet. Green Maned Lion mentioned a plan for 125 Bi-Level cars for midwestern service, will these be Superliners or based on some other design? Any idea when the RFP or order may be placed?

More like Surfliner/California Car types. However, I have heard that Amtrak has intended to submit the RFP for those such that it would include an option for long-distance variations of them- a Superliner 3, more or less.

 

[MattW]

Hate to be a nitpicker here, but when you say "New California/Surfliner cars, California Amfleets -> Northeast Corridor" you actually mean Midwestern Corridors? When I first saw it, it confused me a bit so just clarifying.

Finally they're getting moving on new cars. I agree that while a specifically-build LD single level car is nice, the AMFII's should work for quite a number of more years. I am curious though if anyone's ran the costs of new single level equipment vs. enlarging the NEC infrastructure to allow a complete bi-level fleet. Hopefully they'll re-reshuffle the single level sleeper consists so the Viewliners can all run together and get rid of the uglified consists they have now (Viewliner coaches will be really nice for this...Viewliner-based locomotive...? )

 

[SUNSETLIMITED01]

Hate to be a nitpicker here, but when you say "New California/Surfliner cars, California Amfleets -> Northeast Corridor" you actually mean Midwestern Corridors? When I first saw it, it confused me a bit so just clarifying.
Finally they're getting moving on new cars. I agree that while a specifically-build LD single level car is nice, the AMFII's should work for quite a number of more years. I am curious though if anyone's ran the costs of new single level equipment vs. enlarging the NEC infrastructure to allow a complete bi-level fleet. Hopefully they'll re-reshuffle the single level sleeper consists so the Viewliners can all run together and get rid of the uglified consists they have now (Viewliner coaches will be really nice for this...Viewliner-based locomotive...? )

Well I don't know what to say, this is one of very few times I've had little to say. Bi-level cars would be cool to see in the Northeast Corridor though.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Hate to be a nitpicker here, but when you say "New California/Surfliner cars, California Amfleets -> Northeast Corridor" you actually mean Midwestern Corridors? When I first saw it, it confused me a bit so just clarifying.
Finally they're getting moving on new cars. I agree that while a specifically-build LD single level car is nice, the AMFII's should work for quite a number of more years. I am curious though if anyone's ran the costs of new single level equipment vs. enlarging the NEC infrastructure to allow a complete bi-level fleet. Hopefully they'll re-reshuffle the single level sleeper consists so the Viewliners can all run together and get rid of the uglified consists they have now (Viewliner coaches will be really nice for this...Viewliner-based locomotive...? )

Amfleet refers to a specific design of car. There are a few Amfleets used as spares in California service.

 

[MikefromCrete]

It's good to see some action on new equipment. I assume the 75 additional cars that may be ordered later would be coaches, but you never know, it might be additional sleepers, diners and lounge cars. Once the new bi-level corridor equipment is in use on the Midwest and West short distance routes, it will cascade the single level equipment back to the east. The announcement that Wisconsin is ordering Talgo equipment for Chicago-Milwaukee - (Madison) is also good news and will allow some of those Horizons cars for use on non-high speed routes as Chicago-Rockford-Dubuque and Chicago-Quad Cities-Iowa.

 

[Donctor]

Amtrak intends to issue a competitive Request for Proposal for a vendor to design, manufacture and deliver 130 “Viewliner 2” Long Distance Single-Level Passenger Cars, with an option for Amtrak to purchase up to an additional 70 cars. The “Viewliner 2” rolling stock which is fully described in the Technical Specifications, will be used as Amtrak passenger trains, primarily in long-distance service, but capable of operating anywhere within Amtrak’s system. There are four (4) “Viewliner 2” car types: Diners, Sleepers, Baggage-Dorms and Baggage cars. The “Viewliner 2” cars will be modeled on the concept of the Amtrak “Viewliner 1” cars.

While I'm glad to hear that Amtrak is finally purchasing new cars for the single-level LD routes, this will (at least to me) make eastern railfanning much less interesting. The Lake Shore as of late may run 4 or more types of equipment, which makes the train interesting to photograph. However, when trains look entirely uniform, as the NEC Regionals do today, a good portion of the interest (at least for me) vanishes. I'd still much rather see new, better equipment in larger numbers than see Amtrak continue in its current state, though.

 

[SUNSETLIMITED01]

Yeah and in the next few years we start seeing trains with 18-23 cars. That would be an intresting sight.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Yeah and in the next few years we start seeing trains with 18-23 cars. That would be an intresting sight.

No we don't. The 480 cables can only handle trains up to 16 cars in length

 

[SUNSETLIMITED01]

I was actually talking about long distance trains not reginoals. I forgot to point that out.

 

[Neil_M]

Hopefully they'll re-reshuffle the single level sleeper consists so the Viewliners can all run together and get rid of the uglified consists they have now (Viewliner coaches will be really nice for this...Viewliner-based locomotive...? )

Surely making the consist look 'nice' is the last thing on anyones mind?

 

[jackal]

Hopefully they'll re-reshuffle the single level sleeper consists so the Viewliners can all run together and get rid of the uglified consists they have now (Viewliner coaches will be really nice for this...Viewliner-based locomotive...? )

Surely making the consist look 'nice' is the last thing on anyones mind?

Last thing on everyone's...except a few hardcore foamers'!

 

[Donctor]

If my calculations are correct, there will be enough Viewliner coaches to equip the Cardinal, Crescent, Lake Shore Limited, Silver Meteor, and Silver Star. There will then be 6 spare Viewliner coaches, and of course any number of Amfleet IIs as extras. My calculations are as follows:

Cardinal – 2 equipment sets – 3 coaches/set – 6 coaches

Crescent – 4 equipment sets – 4 coaches/set – 16 coaches

Lake Shore – 3 equipment sets – 6 coaches/set – 15 coaches

Meteor – 4 equipment sets – 4 coaches/set – 16 coaches

Star – 4 equipment sets – 4 coaches/set – 16 coaches

TOTAL = 69 / 75

I'm assuming that the Lake Shore won't get a third Boston coach or a fourth New York coach, and that the Atlantic trains won't be expanded, which, in all reality, likely will not be the case. So, assuming that trains get expanded, which ones have the ridership to support such expansion? If I've read ridership reports correctly, it seems that the Lake Shore and the Florida trains would be ideal for expansion, with the Crescent maybe seeing an additional car or two at most.

A couple of questions:

1. Does it seem wise to order the same number of diners we currently have? That doesn't leave room for expansion.

2. Why are no additional café cars being ordered? We only have 25 right now. Again, no room for expansion. Unless...

3. Might the Viewliner diners resemble the current diner-lites/lounges? In other words, might one car replace two? My guess is 'no,' given that three trains still have full diner service, and a fourth is supposed to.

4. Will 25 diners be enough to re-equip the Lake Shore? There's not much room for error, given that we currently have around 25 diners and still can't equip all trains.

5. Will the Viewliner baggage cars mix with the Heritage baggage cars? I can't imagine that many Heritage baggage cars will be retired, given the current shortage.

6. Will the Cardinal see any of the new coaches? My math above shows that if the Cardinal was assigned Viewliner coaches, there would only be 6 spares...

7. Will the Viewliner coaches mix with the Amfleet IIs? If the Amfleets are used as spares, which question 6 addresses, they can't realistically be kept from mixing, can they?

8. What about the Palmetto? There won't be enough Viewliner coaches for the Palmetto to be re-equipped.

 

[cpamtfan]

Has anyone forgotten, no Viewliner coaches can be built because the second row of windows can't be put where the luggage racks are. The car would probably look like a glorified Bombardier M7 or Acela car. But what about new lounge cars? Then you can move the Diner Lited Amfleet II lounges off to the day trains and you could finally have a good looking-and viewing lounge car!

cpamtfan-Peter

 

[AlanB]

I was actually talking about long distance trains not reginoals. I forgot to point that out.

Long distance or Regionals it doesn't matter, GML is correct that the 480 cables basically limit how long the trains can be. They simply can't carry enough electricity to support long trains without burning up. The Auto Train passenger section is pushing the upper limit when it has 1-transdorm, 6-sleepers, 3-diners, 2-lounges, and 6-coaches I believe. They might be able to add one more sleeper and coach, but I'm not positive.

Now, the single level car does pull less power than the bi-level car, so that would allow a single level consist to be a bit longer, but again there is a finite limit and it's not the long trains of yesteryear.

 

[AlanB]

Has anyone forgotten, no Viewliner coaches can be built because the second row of windows can't be put where the luggage racks are. The car would probably look like a glorified Bombardier M7 or Acela car. But what about new lounge cars? Then you can move the Diner Lited Amfleet II lounges off to the day trains and you could finally have a good looking-and viewing lounge car!
cpamtfan-Peter

Even if you don't put in the upper level windows, you can still use the same shell, which would make things look uniform from the outside and save money.

 

[cpamtfan]

A couple of questions:
1. Does it seem wise to order the same number of diners we currently have? That doesn't leave room for expansion.

2. Why are no additional café cars being ordered? We only have 25 right now. Again, no room for expansion. Unless...

3. Might the Viewliner diners resemble the current diner-lites/lounges? In other words, might one car replace two? My guess is 'no,' given that three trains still have full diner service, and a fourth is supposed to.

4. Will 25 diners be enough to re-equip the Lake Shore? There's not much room for error, given that we currently have around 25 diners and still can't equip all trains.

5. Will the Viewliner baggage cars mix with the Heritage baggage cars? I can't imagine that many Heritage baggage cars will be retired, given the current shortage.

6. Will the Cardinal see any of the new coaches? My math above shows that if the Cardinal was assigned Viewliner coaches, there would only be 6 spares...

7. Will the Viewliner coaches mix with the Amfleet IIs? If the Amfleets are used as spares, which question 6 addresses, they can't realistically be kept from mixing, can they?

8. What about the Palmetto? There won't be enough Viewliner coaches for the Palmetto to be re-equipped.

1. Again they have the option to order more, so if you leave any room, five more would be enough. But twenty is the current amount they have to use, maybe even less. Twenty five is enough.

2. I would think if they ordered anymore cars, lounges would be the cars to order. Then they could push the Amfleet II diner lited diners to the eastern day trains (you know them).

3. No, these will be full diners, no cafe included.

4. Yes, there are currently twelve used, and the rest are either in storage, protects, under overhaul, or in inspection.

5. Yes, all Heritage baggages will be retired. Maybe Amtrak should think about upping the order to 80 baggages (bacause about 70 baggages are currently around, and remember there might be expansions of service.

6. The Cardinal might be turned into a daily train after everything new is here. And who knows maybe Superliners will be given back (fat chance though) <_< .

7. If there are even Viewliner coaches, thats the key. Coaches are just a "extra thought, along with the lounges :blink: .

8. Why would the Palmetto get the new cars (which probably won't even be a major thought by Amtrak)? It already has Amfleet II coaches (isn't that good enough?).

You can dream, you can hope, you can cross your fingers, etc. :unsure: just hopeing this order will actually happen (just go back in time, in this forum, back to about '02 when the original blood of this forum couldn't wait for the brandnew Viewliner car arrive by atleast 2008!

cpamtfan-Peter