Amtrak recommends new train between Pittsburgh, Harrisburg

[jis]

BTW, are you sure that the PL42s fit under 14'6"? How tall are they?

No idea what their height is, but I know they fit; I've seen one sitting on track 2 in NYP.

GML, I just asked an NJT operations guy if (a) an ACES train has ever operated with a PL42 and (b) if a PL42 fits in Penn Station. His emphatic answer to both questions was "No".

Do you perhaps have a photo that I could use to try to prove to him that he is wrong?

 

[Green Maned Lion]

BTW, are you sure that the PL42s fit under 14'6"? How tall are they?

No idea what their height is, but I know they fit; I've seen one sitting on track 2 in NYP.

GML, I just asked an NJT operations guy if (a) an ACES train has ever operated with a PL42 and (b) if a PL42 fits in Penn Station. His emphatic answer to both questions was "No".

Do you perhaps have a photo that I could use to try to prove to him that he is wrong?

Next time I see one, I'll snap a picture of it. I don't take pictures in NYP, I keep thinking I'll be dragged out in cuffs.

 

[Neil_M]

I don't take pictures in NYP, I keep thinking I'll be dragged out in cuffs.

We can only live in hope......... :lol:

 

[AAARGH!]

I don't take pictures in NYP, I keep thinking I'll be dragged out in cuffs.

We can only live in hope......... :lol:

Now be nice...

 

[jis]

I just managed to find out the dimensions of the PL42. Here are its vitals:

Body: steelPrime mover: EMD 16-cylinder 710G3B

Main alternator: TA-17

Traction inverter: IGBT

Traction motors: frame-mounted AC

Trucks: bolsterless two-axle

Wheel size: 44 inches

Starting tractive effort: 69,975 pounds

Continuous tractive effort: 27,000 pounds

Horsepower: 4200hp

Traction power (at wheels): 3620hp

Weight: 144 tons

Length: 69' 10"

Width: 10' 8"

Height: 15' 5"

Fuel capacity: 2250 gallons

HEP source: prime mover

HEP rating: 800kW

Brakes: combination disc/tread/dynam

Since its height is 15'5" it could not possibly have been in Penn Station. So GML I surmise that you saw something else - perhaps a P40 - and mistook it for a PL42.

Now that I remember it, coming to think of it, the reason that NJT went through the trouble of acquiring the P40s was because they could not operate PL42s into Penn Station. And this was at that time roundly commented upon by the rail enthusiast community about NJT's silliness in ordering an engine that they could not operate into Penn Station.

 

[cpamtfan]

Well its either he mistook it or it scraped a foot off the top :lol: !

 

[DET63]

So GML I surmise that you saw something else - perhaps a P40 - and mistook it for a PL42.

They do look quite a bit alike.

NJT PL42C

NJT P40

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Since its height is 15'5" it could not possibly have been in Penn Station. So GML I surmise that you saw something else - perhaps a P40 - and mistook it for a PL42.

Then it was a P40 with ribbed sides, a modified cooling arangment, and a reshaped nose. :unsure:

 

[AMTK 365]

I believe the P42 and the P40 both use the 7FDL16 prime mover. The P40s have already been upgraded to 4250 horsepower, so they are essentially P42s already. I believe there is some difference in the type of brakes used. The P40s were assigned to the Auto Train up to 2005 because the different brakes worked better on the longer heavier train. They might be installing new brakes during the overhaul, and making other modifications. When they are done, we will essentially have 15 more P42s. So does Amtrak renumber them? We'll probably just have to wait and see.

I'm pretty sure they won't be renumbered, and here's why. Just before they were mothballed several years ago, Amtrak actually did software/engine upgrades to several of the P40s (in the 840-series, IIRC) that basically made them P42s. Those units still kept their original numbers. Going off that tidbit, I'm not expecting them to do any renumbering this current batch either.

 

[Mark]

I believe the P42 and the P40 both use the 7FDL16 prime mover. The P40s have already been upgraded to 4250 horsepower, so they are essentially P42s already. I believe there is some difference in the type of brakes used. The P40s were assigned to the Auto Train up to 2005 because the different brakes worked better on the longer heavier train. They might be installing new brakes during the overhaul, and making other modifications. When they are done, we will essentially have 15 more P42s. So does Amtrak renumber them? We'll probably just have to wait and see.

I'm pretty sure they won't be renumbered, and here's why. Just before they were mothballed several years ago, Amtrak actually did software/engine upgrades to several of the P40s (in the 840-series, IIRC) that basically made them P42s. Those units still kept their original numbers. Going off that tidbit, I'm not expecting them to do any renumbering this current batch either.

Either way it will be interesting. I'd love to see them as a 208-233 series but I agree, they're not new units so why bother changing the roster for a few units. I just hope a few of them drift out to Chicago freshly painted. I wish somebody could get the full low-down on these units!

 

[delvyrails]

Another drifting topic.

Like the Sunset, Pioneer, and North Coast Hiawatha studies, this one has its failings--if you read it closely before posting.

As with the others,"sandbagging" of equipment and other requirements is evident. This one has its own typical short-haul issues, such as ignoring big traffic potential beyond the state line. Another failure is the unwillingness to schedule distinctly different schedules (the new train would run only three and five and a half hours off the Pennsylvanian's schedules.

Clearly, state initiatives in these matters does not work; there is no political need for state DOTs to talk to each other. Each state thus invents its own corridors and builds its own little empire.

Would Amtrak do it better? I don't think so. So I believe that the impetus would have to come from somewhere outside both. I'm not sure where that would be.

 

[wayman]

Back to the original topic of this thread (whoa!)... with the new website roll-out, the location of the study (along with every report and document) has moved. Amtrak Reports & Documents now has a great new page ... but the links to the actual studies are currently down. They'll work eventually, but who knows when (I'm sure they're not a high priority).

Meanwhile, I actually need to reference the Pennsylvanian Service Study (Oct 16 2009) for a project I'm working on with a deadline of Monday, and I never actually downloaded it -- I've just been looking at it online. If you downloaded a copy of this study and can email it to me as an attachment, please Private Message me and I'll give you an email address. Thanks!!!

 

[alanh]

The document links appear to be working now.

 

[wayman]

The document links appear to be working now.

That was a lot faster than I expected! Thanks for the tip!