Amtrak stations open only to customers?

[Big Green Chauvanist]

I have been using the King Street Station for years as my downtown Seattle go-to if I need a pleasant space to relax between engagements or just because I like the excitement of the place. Today, which was a very cold day for Seattle, and having missed by a minute getting my old, no-longer-functioning ORCA card replaced at the nearby King County Metro customer service center, I thought I would go around the corner to KSS to read the book I was carrying, until the customer service center reopened an hour later after their lunch break. (Why they have to close for an hour for lunch--all of them at once rather than rotating so that there would be at least one agent in the center at all times--I have no idea. This is something new and is not even mentioned on the website--you first learn of it if you are unlucky enough to arrive at 12:01 as I did). So you can imagine my frustration when I was stopped at the entrance to KSS by a security guard asking if I was traveling by AMTRAK. I explained my situation and was duly ushered to the door. I tried to explain the situation again (as the guard had poor English skills, to say the least), but I gave up and left without further protesting. It also would have been useless, pointless, and perhaps not even à propos in the circumstance, to mention the hundreds of dollars of dollars, probably thousands over the years, I have spent on AMTRAK, tempted as I was. A very long-winded way to ask is this a new policy in ALL AMTRAK stations or rather station-by-station? I'll have to research it out as it has been some time but I think KSS station is owned by the City of Seattle and rented out by AMTRAK. If so, I'll let someone at the city know of my frustration. At larger and busier stations, I can't see that such a policy could be even attempted, but with one entrance and moderate traffic, all it took was this one guard to turn me away. It is true that downtown Seattle, once lively and clean, is now appallingly dirty, with many empty storefronts boarded up and offices closed and with large numbers of homeless individuals on the streets and sidewalks, some mentally ill or drug-addicted. And KSS is located in Pioneer Square, the epicenter of this unfortunate situation. But still, as I was well dressed and MMOB, I felt I shouldn't have been treated to cavalierly.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

It could be due to staff shortages. I know a lot of pharmacies near me are closed for an 1/2 hour each day, and I think some are closed all day on weekends, due to staff shortages.

 

[Bob Dylan]

I have been using the King Street Station for years as my downtown Seattle go-to if I need a pleasant space to relax between engagements or just because I like the excitement of the place. Today, which was a very cold day for Seattle, and having missed by a minute getting my old, no-longer-functioning ORCA card replaced at the nearby King County Metro customer service center, I thought I would go around the corner to KSS to read the book I was carrying, until the customer service center reopened an hour later after their lunch break. (Why they have to close for an hour for lunch--all of them at once rather than rotating so that there would be at least one agent in the center at all times--I have no idea. This is something new and is not even mentioned on the website--you first learn of it if you are unlucky enough to arrive at 12:01 as I did). So you can imagine my frustration when I was stopped at the entrance to KSS by a security guard asking if I was traveling by AMTRAK. I explained my situation and was duly ushered to the door. I tried to explain the situation again (as the guard had poor English skills, to say the least), but I gave up and left without further protesting. It also would have been useless, pointless, and perhaps not even à propos in the circumstance, to mention the hundreds of dollars of dollars, probably thousands over the years, I have spent on AMTRAK, tempted as I was. A very long-winded way to ask is this a new policy in ALL AMTRAK stations or rather station-by-station? I'll have to research it out as it has been some time but I think KSS station is owned by the City of Seattle and rented out by AMTRAK. If so, I'll let someone at the city know of my frustration. At larger and busier stations, I can't see that such a policy could be even attempted, but with one entrance and moderate traffic, all it took was this one guard to turn me away. It is true that downtown Seattle, once lively and clean, is now appallingly dirty, with many empty storefronts boarded up and offices closed and with large numbers of homeless individuals on the streets and sidewalks, some mentally ill or drug-addicted. And KSS is located in Pioneer Square, the epicenter of this unfortunate situation. But still, as I was well dressed and MMOB, I felt I shouldn't have been treated to cavalierly.

Amtrak is just a tenant @ KSS. Contact the City as you said!

And more and more places are shortening Hours and closing for Lunch, as Amtrak Blue said, due to Staffing issues.

 

[daybeers]

This has been the policy for quite a while now; can't remember if that was before or after the start of COVID. I think the primary goal was to keep the homeless "out of sight, out of mind."

 

[joelkfla]

The thing is, it doesn't matter how you were dressed or how clean you were. The rules have to apply to everyone equally, or the city can be accused of discrimination. Even if it technically is not in the legal sense, it's trouble the city would want to avoid.

 

[pennyk]

The Orlando Amtrak Station is right next to a SunRail Station. I have seen signs that the station is only open for Amtrak customers. I do not recall seeing SunRail passengers being turned away. I almost went to the station on Monday to wait for SunRail, but decided rather than wait an hour for a train, I could walk home in less time, which I did (and did not have to worry about being questioned).

 

[CCC1007]

I've only encountered this attitude at KSS, even when I arrived by a train replacement bus, I had to demand entrance to get my baggage, as all of the doors were locked and a guard was only letting those with tickets through. This was 2020.

 

[MARC Rider]

Over the past year, there's been a sign at the doors in Baltimore that says the station is only open to passengers, but nobody has actually stopped me and asked for my ticket. There are Amtrak cops at the door, but they usually don't come up to people and ask them whether they belong there. Of course, the station serves both MARC and Amtrak passengers, and they sell tickets inside, so you might not have one when you enter.

As for the OPs incident in Seattle, if the guard had asked me whether I was a passenger, I would have just said "yes." It's not like the guard is going to follow you in and wait and see whether you board a train, and one isn't going to get prosecuted for perjury because one lies to a security guard.

 

[bratkinson]

Unless a station has uniformed staff at the door checking tickets, there's no way that unticketed persons can be prevented from entering. Just a couple hours ago, while enjoying a lunch at WAS between trains, a panhandler approached and asked for money. I then witnessed a 30-ish man at the next table supply a couple of dollars.

As for simply taking a seat and looking like you 'belong there' (ie, ticketed passenger), who's to know that you don't have a ticket for a train that day?

 

[AFS1970]

The signs that say open to passengers only are a legal maneuver. By posting this, anyone who passes by the sign is acknowledging the rule. So that if there is a problem, they can now be charged with trespassing at the very least.

As for King St, I don't know the specifics, but my small suburban station her in CT is the site of a kid of buck passing between police agencies. Our homeless shelters switched to a new intake system that among other things no longer take referrals from police. So, when the local police come across someone who would otherwise be taken to a shelter, they now bring them to the train station. Then the MTA Police who patrol the station try to get the people out but seeing if they can turn it into a medical call, which they then call an ambulance for. Upon release from the hospital, they will likely be picked up by the local police and it all starts over again.

 

[mgkeihl]

Last April they wouldn't let my son come in to help with my luggage!! But it is a nice, clean place to be if you have the ticket!

 

[AmtrakBlue]

I've only encountered this attitude at KSS, even when I arrived by a train replacement bus, I had to demand entrance to get my baggage, as all of the doors were locked and a guard was only letting those with tickets through. This was 2020.

If that happened in 2020, then it was most likely due to COVID. My local station was closed to non-ticketed people in 2020.
Did you have a ticket for the train the bus replaced?

 

[TheCrescent]

Just buy a ticket from Seattle to Edmonds: around $10. Problem solved.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Just buy a ticket from Seattle to Edmonds: around $10. Problem solved.

Really? Just to be able to sit and read a book? That certainly is not worth $10.

 

[TheCrescent]

Really? Just to be able to sit and read a book? That certainly is not worth $10.

It’s a free country. Amtrak operates its stations (and incurs station expenses) for its business. It does not operate its stations as temporary shelter for anyone who wants it. If you’re not willing to pay $10, which is nothing, then find somewhere else.

 

[jis]

In many countries at larger stations there is the concept of a Platform Ticket which you need to buy to get into the restricted station area.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platform_ticket
A small charge for using the facilities just to hang out as opposed to ride a train (the main purpose of the station facilities) is not at all unreasonable. As for what is a reasonable amount, that could be a subject of discussion.

Then again, they also charge for using toilets in many countries too, mainly to pay for the cleaning and upkeep of them. I understand Network Rail in UK has finally removed those charges at least at Waterloo.

 

[MARC Rider]

In many countries at larger stations there is the concept of a Platform Ticket which you need to buy to get into the restricted station area.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platform_ticket
A small charge for using the facilities just to hang out as opposed to ride a train (the main purpose of the station facilities) is not at all unreasonable. As for what is a reasonable amount, that could be a subject of discussion.

This is true, but it's long been the practice in this country of a "public realm" (even in some "privately-owned" spaces) where people can enter and use the space without having to explain themselves, as long as they adhere to certain standards of behavior. The waiting areas of train stations have long been such a place, so I, too, would be surprised (and not very happy) at the idea of a gatekeeper at the door. In nay event, if I were asked, I would just say, yes I am taking a train, even if I'm not. As I said earlier, I doubt the guard is going to escort you to the ticket counter to see if you buy a ticket.

 

[jis]

This is true, but it's long been the practice in this country of a "public realm" (even in some "privately-owned" spaces) where people can enter and use the space without having to explain themselves, as long as they adhere to certain standards of behavior. The waiting areas of train stations have long been such a place, so I, too, would be surprised (and not very happy) at the idea of a gatekeeper at the door. In nay event, if I were asked, I would just say, yes I am taking a train, even if I'm not. As I said earlier, I doubt the guard is going to escort you to the ticket counter to see if you buy a ticket.

Well in other countries, in facilities that actually have the concept of a platform ticket, in general, just saying "yes, I am traveling" without a ticket would probably not have a good outcome.

What will happen anywhere in the US is a different matter and it is almost guaranteed than in five stations there will be seven different ways of confusing everyone. Witness Penn Station in NY where Moynihan is closed at night but the rest of station is not. I doubt that there will be anything like Platform Tickets in the US, so it will remain a non issue here, except perhaps after the next terrorist attack somewhere, if such happens.

 

[MARC Rider]

Well in other countries, in facilities that actually have the concept of a platform ticket, in general, just saying "yes, I am traveling" without a ticket would probably not have a good outcome.

Access to platforms is different from access to the main station. When I visited Britain, I was able to enter the station without being having to show my ticket. In fact, the stations had shops and eateries that one could use without having to buy a train ticket. (Nothing warms one up better on a chilly June afternoon in England than a nice cup of hot tea and a scone at the station buffet.)

Here in the States, almost all the major train stations have shops and eateries. I imagine these businesses wouldn't be too happy if the station management restricted access only to people who had train tickets.

Washington (DC) Union Station did have signs that said the seats in the waiting area were reserved for MARC, VRS, and Amtrak passengers, but I've never seen any guards going around checking for tickets or anything. The "Ticketed Passengers Waiting Area" at Moynihan in NY is one of the most controlled spaces I've ever seen at an Amtrak station (outside of the Metropolitan Lounges).

 

[jis]

I have never heard of guards checking tickets kind of controlled area anywhere in the US. Indeed if there was not a security imperative for TSA checkpoints at airports even those would have been open areas all the way to the gates as they were before planes started getting hijacked and bombed.

 

[Willbridge]

Greyhound solved this problem in Portland, Oregon by moving out of their convenient and attractive station to a curbside location shared with Flix. There is cover from the rain -- keeping in mind that there are connections to wait for -- under the Broadway Bridge. And then a block away, but rollable, there is Union Station and that's where people head to try and talk security into letting them use the bathrooms. Everyone has access to the main waiting room.

Back in the early 1960's, one of the terminal company's employees had a son who would bring his .22 down to the station after school and shoot the pigeons that lived under that bridge. Apparently, he missed some and their descendants are still around.

Seattle's ancient Greyhound station at 8th & Stewart is closed, and they've moved to the edge of the stadium complex; it's half a mile from King Street Station, so they are not relying on the station restrooms.

 

[trainman74]

In Los Angeles Union Station, there are security guards who check tickets of people who want to sit in the main waiting room -- if I recall correctly, you have to have a ticket for an Amtrak or Metrolink service that leaves within two hours. (I don't know how they handle it if you show, say, a Metrolink monthly pass.)

 

[Cal]

It’s a free country. Amtrak operates its stations (and incurs station expenses) for its business. It does not operate its stations as temporary shelter for anyone who wants it. If you’re not willing to pay $10, which is nothing, then find somewhere else.

It's everyone's own decision what they think is worth it for a nice, clean, quiet place to relax. I personally think $10 is a bit much, especially if you're just trying to sit and read a book.

I was at King Street Station in mid-December, I didn't notice any guards outside the door closest to the (Embassy Suites Hilton?) hotel, but I wasn't paying attention and had baggage which probably showed I was a travelling.

Last April they wouldn't let my son come in to help with my luggage!!

I think that's ridiculous

 

[joelkfla]

In Los Angeles Union Station, there are security guards who check tickets of people who want to sit in the main waiting room -- if I recall correctly, you have to have a ticket for an Amtrak or Metrolink service that leaves within two hours. (I don't know how they handle it if you show, say, a Metrolink monthly pass.)

And if your Amtrak train leaves in 3 or even 4 hours, what would they do if you insisted on staying? Call the police?

I thought saw in a YouTube video a roped-off seating area reserved for Amtrak customers. Are Amtrak passengers not allowed in there until 2 hours before their departure?

 

[Cal]

And if your Amtrak train leaves in 3 or even 4 hours, what would they do if you insisted on staying? Call the police?

I thought saw in a YouTube video a roped-off seating area reserved for Amtrak customers. Are Amtrak passengers not allowed in there until 2 hours before their departure?

And how does that make any sense when there are connections from the inbound SWC to the sunset which is a long layover?