Amtrak to Make Come Back in Tallahassee

[AlanB]

The key issue is that Amtrak is under a lot of pressure to reduce operating losses. Amtrak is not going to restore a loss leader service unless they have specific funding for it or they can reduce losses enough on the other LD trains over the next several years that they can afford to cover the restored service from the annual operating subsidy.

The problem with this however is that things are worse now without the Sunset East, than prior to Sunset East's demise.

Back in 2003 the full length Sunset took in $13.1 Million in revenue against expenses of $40.8M, creating a $27.7M loss. In 2009, despite much higher prices for both coach seats & especially for sleepers, total Sunset revenue was $9.8M against expenses of $43.7M, leading to a loss of $33.9M.

Excluding the Palmetto which was going through changes, the only other train that currently takes in less revenue than in 2003 is the SW Chief. I'm not sure what caused that, but it is clear that the Sunset's revenue was badly hurt by the cancellation of Sunset East, especially since again prices have increased considerably since 2003. Back in 2003, prices on the Sunset from LAX-NOL ranged from $112-219 for coach; $172-410 roomette; and $373-916 for a Bedroom. In 2009 fares were up to $133-261 coach; $236-562 roomette; and $512-1256 Bedroom.

Now ridership was down nearly 30,000 in 2009 from 2003, so no doubt that helps to account for the revenue loss. And odds are that a big chunk of the ridership loss is due to the loss of Sunset East; after all it's not like Sunset West is running empty. There are days where it still does sell out. So clearly at least part of the ridership loss, and therefore the revenue loss despite higher fares, is due to the loss of the carrying capacity of Sunset East.

 

[zephyr17]

The key issue is that Amtrak is under a lot of pressure to reduce operating losses. Amtrak is not going to restore a loss leader service unless they have specific funding for it or they can reduce losses enough on the other LD trains over the next several years that they can afford to cover the restored service from the annual operating subsidy.

The problem with this however is that things are worse now without the Sunset East, than prior to Sunset East's demise.

Back in 2003 the full length Sunset took in $13.1 Million in revenue against expenses of $40.8M, creating a $27.7M loss. In 2009, despite much higher prices for both coach seats & especially for sleepers, total Sunset revenue was $9.8M against expenses of $43.7M, leading to a loss of $33.9M.

Excluding the Palmetto which was going through changes, the only other train that currently takes in less revenue than in 2003 is the SW Chief. I'm not sure what caused that, but it is clear that the Sunset's revenue was badly hurt by the cancellation of Sunset East, especially since again prices have increased considerably since 2003. Back in 2003, prices on the Sunset from LAX-NOL ranged from $112-219 for coach; $172-410 roomette; and $373-916 for a Bedroom. In 2009 fares were up to $133-261 coach; $236-562 roomette; and $512-1256 Bedroom.

Now ridership was down nearly 30,000 in 2009 from 2003, so no doubt that helps to account for the revenue loss. And odds are that a big chunk of the ridership loss is due to the loss of Sunset East; after all it's not like Sunset West is running empty. There are days where it still does sell out. So clearly at least part of the ridership loss, and therefore the revenue loss despite higher fares, is due to the loss of the carrying capacity of Sunset East.

Train also has less capacity than it did then (loss of 1 sleeper, at least, not sure about the coaches), so less opportunity for revenue.

 

[Donctor]

Hopefully, though, it will soon require one less equipment set to run NOL-LAX.

 

[dlagrua]

When the Sunset Ltd ran to Florida no extra equipment was used. Only one train was run and it stopped at NOL and continued on to Florida. I can see a train service resuming to Tallahasse from SE Florida but I believe that the continuance to NOL at this point is a long shot. But if gas prices keep escalating anything is possible. My guess is that as soon as gasoline prices go over the $4.00 /gallon mark passenger rail traffic will take a sharper upturn and at that point talk about new Amtrak routes may again resume.

 

[Trogdor]

My guess is that as soon as gasoline prices go over the $4.00 /gallon mark passenger rail traffic will take a sharper upturn and at that point talk about new Amtrak routes may again resume.

"Talk about new Amtrak routes" has been going on since Amtrak was created in 1971.

This thread (and the article in question) is another example of this talk.

We don't really need any more talk.

The last time motor fuel prices spiked, there wasn't any extra Amtrak funding to add service, just a bunch more talk.

 

[jphjaxfl]

I agree with Trogdor. I have been riding Amtrak since 1971. In the early 1970s we were told that Amtrak would try to restore some of the routes discontinued on April 30,1971. A few came back and stayed for a while, but very few lasted or they replaced routes that were later discontinued. example, the Texas Eagle route was restored in 1974 so for 5 years there were 2 routes from the Midwest to Texas. In 1979, the Lone Star formerly the Texas Chief was discontinued. The Pioneer and Desert Wind came and went. The trains added by West Virginia politicians came and almost went away completely except for the tri-weekly Cardinal. The Sunset LTD east of New Orleans came and went. The New York - Florida west coast Champion went away. The winter only New York-Miami train that ran for a few years went away. More trains went away than came. Any new trains that start will be state supported corridor trains in pro rail states.

 

[afigg]

The problem with this however is that things are worse now without the Sunset East, than prior to Sunset East's demise.

Back in 2003 the full length Sunset took in $13.1 Million in revenue against expenses of $40.8M, creating a $27.7M loss. In 2009, despite much higher prices for both coach seats & especially for sleepers, total Sunset revenue was $9.8M against expenses of $43.7M, leading to a loss of $33.9M.

...

I pulled up the Sunset Limited - Texas Eagle 2010 PIP report which has a litany of all the setbacks that the SL has encountered. Loss of direct Phoenix service in 1996, extending the scheduled trip times because of terrible on-time performance in 2004 and 2005. Quoting from the report:

The cumulative effect of these changes as of August 2005 was that:- Scheduled running time between Los Angeles and Orlando was eight hours longer westbound and more than eleven hours, longer eastbound, than it had been prior to 2000.

- A number of key markets were served at inconvenient times in one or both directions.

- Connectivity with the Coast Starlight and San Joaquin trains was lost in Los Angeles.

[skip over paragraph about Katrina causing indefinite suspension of the eastern end]

The combination of poor train performance, undesirable service times to Houston and Tucson, lack of Phoenix service, lengthened layovers in San Antonio, and the loss of east of New Orleans service and Los Angeles connections caused train ridership to fall precipitously. Ridership decreased from 105,033 in FY03 to 71,719 in FY08.

The long trip times and poor hours for major stops are a factor too. The OTP peformance of the SL is certainly much improved in recent years. If Amtrak was able to enact the recommendations of the PIP report with daily service over the current SL route, the increased ridership and cost recovery might improve the chances of a eventual restoration of service to Florida. I guess the San Antonio to New Orleans daytime stub train could stay to much the same schedule and become an overnight train with sleepers between New Orleans and Florida. Which would make for lousy hours in Tallahassee, but they would have train service.

Is the consensus that if the SL route service were ever restored to Florida that the train would terminate in Orlando, so it could use the AutoTrain service facility in Sanford? Orlando is the busiest station stop, after all, for the Silvers in Florida.

Would be interesting to find out if there is anything going on with the SL/TE daily service plan or are the talks with UP totally dead?

 

[Caesar La Rock]

I don't know if anyone ever saw this at all, but I did find this though. Don't know if it's anything important or big, but it does have something to do with SL service in Tallahassee though. At least it shows people are still supporting this.

http://www.talgov.co.../111122/08.html

 

[Ocala Mike]

Meaningless; just about every community along the route from New Orleans to S Florida has issued similar "proclamations." Too many deaf ears around.

 

[TWA904]

While I know it is a very long shot of the SL being returned east of NO, but if it should several stations onlong the

route willneed to be replaceed or updated. Mobile, AL is one of them. The old Gulf, Mobile & Ohio Railroad Building on the north side of the central business district is still standing and being used by some as an office building. Couldn't that building be used as a terminal in Mobile. It was used as a passenger terminal through the late 1950's. The city now owns the building. In looking a google maps of the area, tracks come were near the building, maybe within a couple of hundred feet. Mobile will need a new terminal no matter what train comes through, a restored SL or a restored Gulf Breeze from Birmingham. I believe Atmore might even need a new facility.