Amtrak vs. VIA Dining Car Comparison

[jis]

I suspect I might get crucified by the true believers for saying this, but IMHO, based on many rides on the VIA Canadian over the past decade or so, I think the food served on the VIA Canadian has progressively regressed to look and taste more and more like Amtrak Empire Builder food, which BTW in and of itself is not bad. But the food on the VIA Canadian was a completely different grade of thing many years ago. Alas not by much any more. Just IMHO of course.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Amtraks food is not that bad, guys. It's not great, but it's not bad either. Why people think tha Amtrak should offer the five star meals of crack trains of a day gone by baffles the hell out of me. So long as people go around insisting amtrak sucks because it is not a Williamsburg-style Musuem of the Golden Age of Long Distance Trains, preserving real long distance rail service in this country is a losing battle.

 

[caravanman]

I found the food, atmosphere and ambience on the Canadian far better than any Amtrak train I have taken... mind you, the frequent free champers might have given me a rose tinted outlook...

Ed

 

[jis]

Amtraks food is not that bad, guys. It's not great, but it's not bad either. Why people think tha Amtrak should offer the five star meals of crack trains of a day gone by baffles the hell out of me. So long as people go around insisting amtrak sucks because it is not a Williamsburg-style Musuem of the Golden Age of Long Distance Trains, preserving real long distance rail service in this country is a losing battle.

Well stated. Completely agree.

 

[yarrow]

Amtraks food is not that bad, guys. It's not great, but it's not bad either.

for the price, either in a sleeper fare or purchased from the menu, the food is usually ok and sometimes not. just like the service. for the price, it probably should be better, imho

 

[Guest]

The Oceans Renaissance Diners have booth seating (360deg view in link below)

http://www.viarail.ca/sites/all/files/media/360/Renaissance_dining_car/index.html

Its interesting that Via has 2-1 seating, instead of Amtrak's 2-2 seating.

 

[cpamtfan]

Completely agree with you GML.

 

[TVRM610]

Amtraks food is not that bad, guys. It's not great, but it's not bad either. Why people think tha Amtrak should offer the five star meals of crack trains of a day gone by baffles the hell out of me. So long as people go around insisting amtrak sucks because it is not a Williamsburg-style Musuem of the Golden Age of Long Distance Trains, preserving real long distance rail service in this country is a losing battle.

Totally agree. Actually the reason I started this thread was to help show that. To me.. side by side.. Amtrak food is pretty comparable. The salads are the most noticeable difference... and that's essentially the same ingredients, just plated better.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

for the price, either in a sleeper fare or purchased from the menu, the food is usually ok and sometimes not. just like the service. for the price, it probably should be better, imho

Everybody al ways thinks things should be better for the money spent. As a businessman I see Amtrak loses money on food service. As a passenger I see they usually run out of food by the end of the trip, so it's not excessive spoilage. Given these statements of unquestionable facts, can you justify your position? I would tend to think Amtrak has played the right quality price mix to achieve its current fiscal picture.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Frankly, when I was on the VIA Canadian, I longed from Amtrak chips. I do not eat potato salad. I have food allergies and I found that Amtrak had more choices than VIA, especially on the Ocean.

I love potato salad though, I guess that gives the Canadian an edge. I don't have much allergies.

Speaking from experience a few years ago and earlier, the Ocean is worse than the Cardinal in terms of food service. You have only two options for dinner, and both are overpriced and incredibly small portions. They're precooked and refrigerated, and then microwaved on board the trains since there is no kitchen. Also, they only pack a small amount more than what is needed to cover Sleeping Car passenger counts, and usually run out.

The Canadian is by-far in an entirely separate league from the Ocean.

There's no kitchen on the Ocean? They should've kept a Budd Diner running in the consist, they must be much nicer than the Ren Diners, which were deisgned for shorter European runs.

I like the chairs in the Via dinners vs the booths Amtrak has.

Thanks for those pics! The pics also show off the nice table settings that VIA has.

As for the chairs vs. booths... if you were ever on a train that derailed you would much prefer the booths I can promise you that.

But a train doesn't derail much and even if it derails, the diner is usually towards the middle so it is unlikely that the diner would derail. Just saying.

So what does the Canadian do exactly that sets it apart from the other LDs? Are there more cooks, bigger kitchens, less regulatory interference, higher prices, etc?

I think, long story short, it's the high prices, more expensive than Amtrak, but not as expensive as some make it out to be. Should be a great deal if you catch those 50% specials.

I'd hope the food would be better than Amtrak for the price and time you expend for that trip.

They are two completely different can of worms. You are not getting the same quality on an Amtrak train as the Canadian. However, people make it out like Amtrak food is way worse than it actually is.

I'd say Amtrak food is OK, but IMO it has gotten worse over the years. It's just the poor flavour, it's so bland, they need more seasoning and less presentation. The dinner is OK but the breakfast and lunch are not so good. Personally, I'd rather be eating a Big Mac than eating in the Amtrak Diner, I don't eat Big Macs much anyway so I don't need to watch calories. Again, JMO.

The Oceans Renaissance Diners have booth seating (360deg view in link below)

http://www.viarail.ca/sites/all/files/media/360/Renaissance_dining_car/index.html

Its interesting that Via has 2-1 seating, instead of Amtrak's 2-2 seating.

I found out the Renaissance cars are narrower than standard North American cars.

 

[TVRM610]

Speaking from experience a few years ago and earlier, the Ocean is worse than the Cardinal in terms of food service. You have only two options for dinner, and both are overpriced and incredibly small portions. They're precooked and refrigerated, and then microwaved on board the trains since there is no kitchen. Also, they only pack a small amount more than what is needed to cover Sleeping Car passenger counts, and usually run out.

The Canadian is by-far in an entirely separate league from the Ocean.

There's no kitchen on the Ocean? They should've kept a Budd Diner running in the consist, they must be much nicer than the Ren Diners, which were deisgned for shorter European runs.

I like the chairs in the Via dinners vs the booths Amtrak has.

Thanks for those pics! The pics also show off the nice table settings that VIA has.

As for the chairs vs. booths... if you were ever on a train that derailed you would much prefer the booths I can promise you that.

But a train doesn't derail much and even if it derails, the diner is usually towards the middle so it is unlikely that the diner would derail. Just saying.

I think there is a kitchen on the Renasiance cars just like there is a kitchen on Amtrak Superliner Diners, Cross Country Cafes, and Heritage Diners. The kitchen is there.. it's just not used to it's potential.

As far as the train derailing... yes I know the odds... but the FRA has a reason for the standards they have in place. I personally don't worry too much when I ride the Canadian... (i.e. I don't worry at all) but I do understand the reasoning for the FRA standards and they do make sense. IF a dining car were to derail... it's much safer if all of the furniture is securely bolted down. That's a fact. Just saying.

 

[Blackwolf]

I think there is a kitchen on the Renasiance cars just like there is a kitchen on Amtrak Superliner Diners, Cross Country Cafes, and Heritage Diners. The kitchen is there.. it's just not used to it's potential.

Really, there is not a true kitchen on the Rens. I stand corrected on what is used for the heating of meals (convection ovens, not microwaves, but the units look exactly like a microwave) but in terms of a stove/griddle/hotplate to physically cook something using a pan or a pot, you would be out of luck. They don't have them. The "diner" has a small preparation and waitstaff station with plate storage and washing facilities. The "cooking" is done in one of the two adjacent lounge cars (one for sleeper passengers, one for coach passengers, both being identical in layout and design) which have a snack bar equipped with the convection ovens.

Clicking on the link here and selecting "kitchen" will show the prep station I mention. http://www.viarail.ca/sites/all/files/media/360/Renaissance_dining_car/index.html

Clicking here, you can see the interior of the snack bar complete with the microwave convection oven used for heating meals. http://www.viarail.ca/sites/all/files/media/360/Voiture-services_Renaissance_corridor/index.html

 

[TVRM610]

Oh interesting Blakwolf! I really really hope I get the chance to ride the Ocean before it goes away...

 

[neroden]

On every one of those comparison photos, I thought

"Well, food's pretty similar, but they get real plates in Canada."

"Well, food's pretty similar, but they get real bowls in Canada."

"Well, food's pretty similar, but they get real saucers in Canada."

"Well, food's pretty similar, but they get real glasses in Canada."

"Boy, the tablecloths make the Canadian look a lot better, even though they're purely cosmetic."

Seriously, bring back the washable china and washable tablecloths. And advertise the hell out of it as "environmentally conscious".

 

[TVRM610]

On every one of those comparison photos, I thought

"Well, food's pretty similar, but they get real plates in Canada."

"Well, food's pretty similar, but they get real bowls in Canada."

"Well, food's pretty similar, but they get real saucers in Canada."

"Well, food's pretty similar, but they get real glasses in Canada."

"Boy, the tablecloths make the Canadian look a lot better, even though they're purely cosmetic."

Seriously, bring back the washable china and washable tablecloths. And advertise the hell out of it as "environmentally conscious".

Why did you think that? Because in half of the pictures I posted there ARE real plates, linen table cloths present, and real glassware. I made sure to include some of both...

 

[Winnemuk]

What I see in comparing the food photos is a difference of attitude. Amtrak staff have a "cafeteria" attitude, with a few elements of the presentation tarted-up to try and create an ambiance of exclusivity. It's phony, and the food on the plate reveals that underlying truth - nobody on the staff really cares, so just shut up and eat. The VIA offerings show an attitude of service and deliberate attention to small details. The platings are more inviting and they tell customers "You are important to us, we actually care about what we are serving".

Why the big differences in attitude? I think we all know the answer, even if it makes us uncomfortable to admit it.

 

[neroden]

=

Why did you think that?

That's a very good question. Let me introspect.

Because in half of the pictures I posted there ARE real plates, linen table cloths present, and real glassware. I made sure to include some of both...

Which half? I see some which look like they have real plates but plastic glasses, and I see some which look like they have real glasses but throwaway tablecloths... there must be an illusion here...

...I think it's the tray of creamers and the metal cup of sugar packets. Are those creamers in a plastic dish even when the plates are ceramic? The tray of butter patties and caddy of sugar packets on VIA are (a) ceramic, and (b) the sugar packet caddy is designed for its purpose. Amtrak seems to be stuffing its sugar packets into a metal cup which is round and unsuitable.

Interesting how stupid little things like that affect the perception of the presentation. I know this is standard stuff which they teach in restaurant school, but apparently it hasn't quite seeped through to Amtrak.

 

[neroden]

Aha. One other thing. VIA actually sets out the silverware and tablecloths, the way a restaurant would.

Amtrak has them wrapped up with that little paper thing, the way a particular type of roadhouse diner would. Oddly, this one little thing -- the little paper scraps lying around after people unroll their napkins -- translates to "Amtrak is a much lower class operation". I'm not sure how many people have that perception response.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Aha. One other thing. VIA actually sets out the silverware and tablecloths, the way a restaurant would.

Amtrak has them wrapped up with that little paper thing, the way a particular type of roadhouse diner would. Oddly, this one little thing -- the little paper scraps lying around after people unroll their napkins -- translates to "Amtrak is a much lower class operation". I'm not sure how many people have that perception response.

Gee, I didn't know Bugaboo Creek was a roadhouse diner.

 

[neroden]

Gee, I didn't know Bugaboo Creek was a roadhouse diner.

Oh, hell yeah that's the atmosphere they're trying for. I'd never heard of them before you mentioned them, but going to their online advertising they're definitely going for "rustic, rural, folksy, roadhouse".
I'm not sure that works for a dining car on a train. It would be an... interesting image to attempt to project.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Gee, I didn't know Bugaboo Creek was a roadhouse diner.

Oh, hell yeah that's the atmosphere they're trying for. I'd never heard of them before you mentioned them, but going to their online advertising they're definitely going for "rustic, rural, folksy, roadhouse".
I'm not sure that works for a dining car on a train. It would be an... interesting image to attempt to project.

Well, I would say their food is better than a roadhouse diner. I enjoyed my prime rib & potatoes the other night.

 

[neroden]

Well, I would say their food is better than a roadhouse diner. I enjoyed my prime rib & potatoes the other night.

And personally I like good roadhouse diner food. But I'm not sure Amtrak is capable of projecting the down-home atmosphere which goes with it.... the poor old Pullman-trained waiters would probably find it very difficult. You don't want to be somewhere halfway between two different styles of restaurant, which Amtrak is right now.

 

[gaspeamtrak]

Via runs two long haul trains, "The Canadian" two days a week, "The Ocean" three days a week, and my "Gaspe" train that is gone for now.

The Canadian is a tourist train. The "Ocean" takes 24 hours to cover 840 miles.

Amtrak runs how many long haul trains? 10 long haul trains daily and I think 2 other trains tri weekly.That people take as transportation. The Canadian is a tourist train.

You do the math!

To compare Via's and Amtrak's food service is like night and day.

I find Amtrak's food service acceptable.

Via's is ok, but you are paying for it if you don't get the 50% off fare, you are paying through the nose and I frankly don't like some of the choices they offer.

The way Congress complains about the cost of Amtrak's food service they would have field day with "The Canadian's" food cost!

 

[yarrow]

The way Congress complains about the cost of Amtrak's food service they would have field day with "The Canadian's" food cost!

i'm sure they would given their uncanny ability to ferret out the irrelevant and push it to the fore when looking at an issue. let us not give harper and his cronies any ideas about more via cuts

 

[jis]

The way Congress complains about the cost of Amtrak's food service they would have field day with "The Canadian's" food cost!

i'm sure they would given their uncanny ability to ferret out the irrelevant and push it to the fore when looking at an issue. let us not give harper and his cronies any ideas about more via cuts

Those will happen anyway. VIA really does not have any long term continuity plans as far as I can tell. As long as they can fumble along with what they have they will and after that......???? I think the Corridor will survive in some way, shape or form. But the rest.... who knows?