Amtrak vs. VIA Dining Car Comparison

[TVRM610]

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Why did you think that?

That's a very good question. Let me introspect.

Because in half of the pictures I posted there ARE real plates, linen table cloths present, and real glassware. I made sure to include some of both...

Which half? I see some which look like they have real plates but plastic glasses, and I see some which look like they have real glasses but throwaway tablecloths... there must be an illusion here...

...I think it's the tray of creamers and the metal cup of sugar packets. Are those creamers in a plastic dish even when the plates are ceramic? The tray of butter patties and caddy of sugar packets on VIA are (a) ceramic, and (b) the sugar packet caddy is designed for its purpose. Amtrak seems to be stuffing its sugar packets into a metal cup which is round and unsuitable.

Interesting how stupid little things like that affect the perception of the presentation. I know this is standard stuff which they teach in restaurant school, but apparently it hasn't quite seeped through to Amtrak.

The last photos (breakfast and lunch) both feature real plates and glasses. The breakfast is from the Empire Builder, the Grilled Cheese is from the Coast Starlight I believe.. but could easily be from the Builder as well. The other photos are taken from the Zephyr and Chief and feature all plasticware.

No doubt VIA has a more elegant table set... they have little jars of jams, and they bring you out fresh syrup as well (but come on.. it's Canada).

I frankly find the sugar packets and creamer comments to be a little nit-picky. I agree VIA looks classier, and I agree that details matter, but I don't think Amtrak is advertising anything that would require the most elegant sugar packet dispenser.

Likewise your comments about the silverware is silly... First off, doesn't Amtrak get ANY credit for having signature silverware? I mean if VIA had their logo on the silverware you would be saying "look how classy that looks" but since it's Amtrak that went the extra mile on that one you conveniently ignore it. More to your point... having silverware wrapped in a cloth napkin is business as usual for many many restaurants. I really don't see how that's something to complain about. I'm trying to think of the last time I was seated with silverware VIA Rail style in a restaurant.. I'm remembering over priced hotel restaurants, and ultra fancy places which Amtrak does not claim to be.

That's just my opinion.. I mean I agree VIA Canadian has the more impressive dining car experience.. and I agree the details matter. But it seems like you are just looking for things to complain about.

 

[jis]

Here is a hypothetical..... So suppose you were given the following choice:

1. The Empire builder like the Canadian, will run three times a week, will take an extra day to cover the same distance that it does now, charge 30% more, but will provide gourmet dining experience like on the Canadian, and will have all rattles from lose fixtures eliminated (afterall they have extra time now to fix things).

2. The Empire Builder runs every day of the week at its current fares with pretty much its current post reductions of frills food service, and runs more on time.

Which would you choose?

The good thing about choice 1 is that while it will cost a bit more to provide said service, it will free up a consist or two for productive use elsewhere while keeping the gourmet aficionados happy (maybe). Additionally the reduced speed and lower frequency will make it fit better into the current congested operating environment of the high line.

 

[jimhudson]

Why not both? Two Trains a day would work! Oops, no money, no equipment, no OBS and Hell No from BNSF!

Seriously if forced to choose I'd take #1 but I don't live on the Hi-Line and probably won't ever ride it again! (Unless someone wants to buy me a ticket or use points! LOL

Good post his!

 

[TVRM610]

Why not both? Two Trains a day would work! Oops, no money, no equipment, no OBS and Hell No from BNSF!

Seriously if forced to choose I'd take #1 but I don't live on the Hi-Line and probably won't ever ride it again! (Unless someone wants to buy me a ticket or use points! LOL

Good post his!

Seriously? That's scary. You would rather have a 3 day a week cruise train than a 7 day a week train that is consitstently sold out?

 

[jimhudson]

Sorry, my attempt @ hyperbole was poor! Of course the Daily Train is the Best Choice but as has been totally discussed on this thread and others about LD Trains and the EB in particular well have Years of delays/poor OTPs/Cancellations/Bustitutions and Service Disruptions to put up with!

 

[SarahZ]

2. The Empire Builder runs every day of the week at its current fares with pretty much its current post reductions of frills food service, and runs more on time.

This. The EB is used not only for vacations but also as transportation. Given its proximity to Glacier and even Yellowstone (if one rents a vehicle), it's a viable option for those traveling during the tourist seasons. It's also a scenic train during the winter. Andplusalso, it connects several major cities.

Option #2, all the way. No doubt about it. I would take reliable service over flowers and a newspaper without hesitation.

 

[JayPea]

Option 2 for sure. As the EB is the only local rail option (if you consider a 55 mile drive from my home to the station in Spokane local) I want the train to run 7 days a week so as to have the greatest number of options available when I want to travel. Heresy to some, I know, but the amenities cuts don't mean much to me one way or the other. It's all about what's best for ME, ME, MEEEEEEEE! :lol:

 

[MiniMax]

The best rail trip of my life was riding VIA from Vancouver to Toronto. The food was excellent, but so is Amtrak's. The VIA uses dome cars! There were at least four of them on our train. You can see in front and behind - 360 degrees of scenery. I heard that the same dome cars once ran in the US, but we sold them to Canada.

 

[NorthCoastHiawatha]

The best rail trip of my life was riding VIA from Vancouver to Toronto. The food was excellent, but so is Amtrak's. The VIA uses dome cars! There were at least four of them on our train. You can see in front and behind - 360 degrees of scenery. I heard that the same dome cars once ran in the US, but we sold them to Canada.

Amtrak acquired dome cars from the predecessor US roads, 7 domes were sold to Canada years ago, but were never used. All domes currently on VIA are ex Canadian Pacific.

 

[neroden]

That's just my opinion.. I mean I agree VIA Canadian has the more impressive dining car experience.. and I agree the details matter. But it seems like you are just looking for things to complain about.

Nope. Pay attention, please. I didn't consciously see the details at first. I just saw "Amtrak looks worse".
It was only on introspection that I figured out what was tripping my subconscious. And it was stupid little things.

Other people will have the same sort of reactions, and won't know what's tripping their subconscious reactions, and won't try to figure it out.

---

Obviously it's not worth sacrificing daily service (!!!) or on-time performance (!!!) to get a better "dining experience", but what sort of things are triggering my subconscious here? CHEAP things. How much does it cost to get a more suitable caddy for the sugar packets, seriously? And then how many people's reactions will be altered by that stupid little thing?

 

[TVRM610]

That's just my opinion.. I mean I agree VIA Canadian has the more impressive dining car experience.. and I agree the details matter. But it seems like you are just looking for things to complain about.

Nope. Pay attention, please. I didn't consciously see the details at first. I just saw "Amtrak looks worse".
It was only on introspection that I figured out what was tripping my subconscious. And it was stupid little things.

Other people will have the same sort of reactions, and won't know what's tripping their subconscious reactions, and won't try to figure it out.

---

Obviously it's not worth sacrificing daily service (!!!) or on-time performance (!!!) to get a better "dining experience", but what sort of things are triggering my subconscious here? CHEAP things. How much does it cost to get a more suitable caddy for the sugar packets, seriously? And then how many people's reactions will be altered by that stupid little thing?

ahhh now I think I follow.

While I agree to disagree on the sugar packet caddy (I really don't see what the problem is... other than in the photos I posted it was a little overstuffed and looked messy) I do agree with you in general.

I must admit that I really do love the Amtrak China pattern and the Amtrak Branded Flatware. To me those are little details that add alot. Now when it's a china pattern on plastic.. kind of just an "eh" for effort.

 

[Jean]

Well, I can't see how any comparison can be made unless both meals were eaten by the same person each time, and we have a report on each one. I'm not so worried about "the look" unless it is really poor. I am more interested in the meal itself.

I am a bit scared to bring up another aspect of this discussion, but... I have travelled quite a bit in each country and find that restaurant/cafe/diner food in Canada is much nicer than in the US. After a week of eating out in the US I am often feeling quite ill. The food seems too greasy, cheesy, overcooked and there is just too much of it. In Canada, often (not always!) it is lighter, fresher, simpler, crisper, less sauces, cheese, dressings. In other words, more like Australian food. Maybe that is why I like it better, my digestion is used to that style of food. So US citizens may naturally prefer Amtrak food to VIA, it is just more like what they are used to.

I have had meals on the Canadian and the Ocean, and they were both open style seating, no booths on the Ocean at that time. The only dessert on the Ocean was a berry slice, take it or leave it. I took it and it was quite good. I forget the mains, but they were quite acceptable and didn't feel re-heated.

Jean

 

[caravanman]

Gosh, Jean,

I do admire your gumption in mentioning the wider aspects of US food consumption... prepare for a verbal broadside from the pizza eaters!

(Broadside not meant to be a pun... )

I think the American economy has historicaly delivered cheaper food, so maybe that is why it is more affordable to "eat out"... I have never seen so much "casual dining" advertising on TV as in US.

I have to go to supermarkets and buy fresh fruit and salad when visiting America, because I can only afford to travel economicaly, and the economical restaurant options are much as you describe.

(I can't say that economical eating out here in the UK is a great feast either, but the Indian curry houses make eating out in the UK so mouthwatering and worth while!)

Ed

 

[rrdude]

Aha. One other thing. VIA actually sets out the silverware and tablecloths, the way a restaurant would.Amtrak has them wrapped up with that little paper thing, the way a particular type of roadhouse diner would. Oddly, this one little thing -- the little paper scraps lying around after people unroll their napkins -- translates to "Amtrak is a much lower class operation". I'm not sure how many people have that perception response.

I didn't pick up on that before, but yes you are correct. Although this one particular aspect, is one that doesn't upset me as much as the other cuts in amenities, lowering of food-service standards, and lack of staffing.

It's sad to say, but if I were given a choice Amtrak or Applebee's, based solely on service, and food quality, I would choose Applebee's in a New York minute

 

[rrdude]

I'd hope the food would be better than Amtrak for the price and time you expend for ................ However, people make it out like Amtrak food is way worse than it actually is.........

Because it "IS worse than it actually is". I worked on Amtrak for the better part of three years, Albeit decades ago, and I was onboard when the modified meal service was instituted. I saw what Amtrak could produce out of the superliner and pre-superliner kitchens, before modified meal service. And, unfortunately I saw what Amtrak produced out of the kitchens after modified meal service was instituted. The equipment is there. The training that Amtrak is provided their chefs is excellent. I understand the need and the demand from politicos for cost cutting measures and reducing expenses in the dining car. However in my humble opinion, Amtrak is going about it bass ackwards, and at the same time not doing anything proactive for the environment with regards to recycling, or better put" not recycling", all of the plastic that is generated as trash from the dining car operations

 

[TVRM610]

I'd hope the food would be better than Amtrak for the price and time you expend for ................ However, people make it out like Amtrak food is way worse than it actually is.........

Because it "IS worse than it actually is". I worked on Amtrak for the better part of three years, Albeit decades ago, and I was onboard when the modified meal service was instituted. I saw what Amtrak could produce out of the superliner and pre-superliner kitchens, before modified meal service. And, unfortunately I saw what Amtrak produced out of the kitchens after modified meal service was instituted. The equipment is there. The training that Amtrak is provided their chefs is excellent. I understand the need and the demand from politicos for cost cutting measures and reducing expenses in the dining car. However in my humble opinion, Amtrak is going about it bass ackwards, and at the same time not doing anything proactive for the environment with regards to recycling, or better put" not recycling", all of the plastic that is generated as trash from the dining car operations

Since you were on board when the modified meal service was first instituted have you not seen drastic improvements since then? I wasn't working for Amtrak but I've been riding Amtrak through all of these changes and I remember when the dining car options were much worse. No fresh scrambled eggs, no steaks, etc.

I agree there is room for improvement.. but I am also going to recognize where I have seen improvements already.

 

[TVRM610]

Well, I can't see how any comparison can be made unless both meals were eaten by the same person each time, and we have a report on each one. I'm not so worried about "the look" unless it is really poor. I am more interested in the meal itself.

Well I ate all the meals photographed.... Obviously the Canadian is going to win in overall dining experience. As has been pointed out the little details add up and the quality of ingredients is certainly a step up from Amtrak.

I'll try to give a quick report about each comparison photo - I personally liked the Mahi Mahi on Amtrak better than the Pickerel on VIA, but the salad and desserts are better on VIA so as a meal I would give that one to VIA very easily (side veggies are slightly better on VIA too.. but this is less of a point.

The Pasta Dishes on Amtrak never impress me.. so the Pasta Meal I posted is an easy win for VIA all the way around.

Breakfast is a slight nod to VIA, mostly because of choices. What I ordered was the exact same thing I get on Amtrak (scrambled eggs) but I had the choice of having my eggs anyway I like them, more choice of breads (you can order real toast!), and more choices of meats (bacon, sausage, and ham on VIA). The quality and taste? For me I would say a slight nod to VIA but almost a tie.

Lunch - The Amtrak Grilled Cheese Specialty sandwich is awesome. I have no complaints and get super excited when I see it on the menu. (I've had it on the Starlight, Builder, and Lake Shore... only once on the Builder did it come out not totally melted and a little underwhelming). The VIA rail lunch in the comparison photo is a hummus plate with flat bread and veggies. It was also very good and the veggies were very fresh and cut perfect for a hummus accompaniment. So for lunch? I would have to say in that particular comparison it's a total tie. If I was comparing the more usual Amtrak Veggie Burger.. VIA would get the win.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

On every one of those comparison photos, I thought

"Well, food's pretty similar, but they get real plates in Canada."

"Well, food's pretty similar, but they get real bowls in Canada."

"Well, food's pretty similar, but they get real saucers in Canada."

"Well, food's pretty similar, but they get real glasses in Canada."

"Boy, the tablecloths make the Canadian look a lot better, even though they're purely cosmetic."

Seriously, bring back the washable china and washable tablecloths. And advertise the hell out of it as "environmentally conscious".

Why did you think that? Because in half of the pictures I posted there ARE real plates, linen table cloths present, and real glassware. I made sure to include some of both...

Because people's perception of negativity is self imposed. If you intend to hate it, and it doesn't amaze the living heck out of you, you'll hate it.

 

[jis]

There is also the issue of selective observation to support a conclusion arrived at before the observations are made. Not suggesting such has happened here, but it is a well known phenomenon.

 

[neroden]

I have travelled quite a bit in each country and find that restaurant/cafe/diner food in Canada is much nicer than in the US. After a week of eating out in the US I am often feeling quite ill. The food seems too greasy, cheesy, overcooked and there is just too much of it. In Canada, often (not always!) it is lighter, fresher, simpler, crisper, less sauces, cheese, dressings.

It varies by region. You can always find the "overcooked greasy cheesy" stuff anywhere in the US, but in the Northeast, California, the Pacific Northwest, or even Florida, you can *also* find lighter, fresher, stuff, and quite a lot of it.

I had trouble finding what I think of as decent food in parts of the Midwest and all of the South.

In other words, more like Australian food. Maybe that is why I like it better, my digestion is used to that style of food. So US citizens may naturally prefer Amtrak food to VIA, it is just more like what they are used to.

 

[neroden]

There is also the issue of selective observation to support a conclusion arrived at before the observations are made. Not suggesting such has happened here, but it is a well known phenomenon.

This is one reason why it's very, very bad to screw up one's reputation. Reputation is easy to lose and hard to recover.

Amtrak's cuts to food service in the past have been very damaging to Amtrak, and even if Amtrak reverses all of them, it will take years for people's expectations to change again, and Amtrak will suffer because of that.

This is why this kind of amenities cut (losing china) is *stupid*.

 

[zepherdude]

I just can not see knocking Amtrak for their meal service. They do what they can as instructed by Congress. I personally could care less about folded silverware inside of a napkin, tablecloth or pc sugar or pc condos. I would think the k,f,spoon is safer wrapped in a lapkin than laying out getting buggy and dusty. I would think plastic dinnerware eliminates, an employee or two, soap, sanitizer, rinse, grey water and lots of hot water usage and replacement of broken dishes and excess equipment inventory to store on the train diner. Plastic can be bought in quantity cheaper and disposed of at each station. It is easier and does save money. I suspect it will never go back to china. Sorry to be a frank and truthful. Don't like it? Write your Congress! When one does not like something, gripe up, no one can do anything here about plastic ware. Amtrak can't do anything. Gripe up, not sideways or down.

I think Congress instructs Amtrak to save money and they have to as told. The directors may not like it, but that's life. We don't like it, but that's life. Wine n cheese is a part of this. Wine and cheese is not profitable, so get rid of it. Most everyone is pissed because they can't chow down on free cheese and free wine. You should write your Congress if your unhappy with Amtrak. They control the strings, at least I think. Write John Boehner! He is a definitely a go to guy! He is THE man and will roll over for everyone! I don't care what Via does, they charge more money for everything. Do not ride Via and Amtrak is not fine dining! This is far from the Golden Age of trains. This is a simple meal service that I perceive as a passenger, quality and sufficient for what is charged. I am a happy camper whenever I eat meals on the train.

 

[neroden]

Plastic can be bought in quantity cheaper and disposed of at each station. It is easier and does save money.

False savings in the long run, but who in this country thinks in the long run?

I suspect it will never go back to china. Sorry to be a frank and truthful.

Well, keep an eye on the trash disposal costs at each station. Used to be people thought they could just throw stuff away for free. Now it's $12 a bag most places, and rising.

 

[KC Ghost Rider]

My two cents. Via food presentation looks more appealing and professional. Eye candy if you will. The proof is in the taste. I find Amtrak food generally good and filling, and every steak I ever had was excellent. Amtrak's desserts have gone through various changes, but have been good as well. My big complaint are the vegetables; Amtrak only decent choice is the mash potatoes! That medley can be done much better. I have yet to ride the Via Canadian. That will be done this upcoming December (25th Wedding Anniversary trip) and I will be able to do a taste comparison. Once I have tasted the food offered, I will report back. I think it is the only fair way to say which is better.

 

[Ted Bell]

Dear sweet lord. Are we talking about food again?