Amtrak's outrageous treatment of passengers

[AmtrakWPK]

the only thing I object to is when they would cut smoking stops to make up time caused by freight delays.

When the train is running late, passengers on that train worry. Some passenger is heading to a wedding. Will he or she arrive before the wedding is over? Some passenger is traveling to an appointment with a cancer specialist. If he arrives too late for that appointment he will have to go home and wait for another two or three weeks. The cancer won't stop metastasizing during that time. Another passenger is traveling to see her father/mother/brother/son who is in the hospital in ICU dying. Will she make it before that loved one dies? She is terrified of flying, or the flight from her small town , which has train service, would have cost $800 more than she could afford. Another is going to testify at a trial. Will they make it in time to testify or will they be held in contempt because they didn't? Another is meeting a cruise ship. Will the ship sail without them? Lots of others will just be late. Any single one of those people would be completely outraged if a conductor kept the train waiting for no other reason than some smokers puffing away after "station work", the entraining or detraining passengers, was completed and the train was ready to go except for the smokers. The train exists to transport passengers. NOTHING should be allowed to interfere with that, period. Unless the train is EARLY and can't depart until it is scheduled to depart from that station, NOTHING should be allowed to hinder it's departure, as soon as possible, when legitimate station work has been completed, ESPECIALLY smokers. Conductors work very hard to shave seconds off of station stops in order to try to "catch up" with their schedule. Engineers work very hard, within the rules, to get their trains back to schedule. "Smoking stops" are conveniences for smokers that MUST fit "within" a station stop and not make that stop even ONE SECOND slower. They cannot be ADDED to it. If a smoker can't deal with that, then get in your car and drive to your destination. Don't expect a train full of passengers trying desperately to get to their destinations, for a variety of legitimate reasons, to acquiesce to your making them later to their destinations.

 

[Anthony]

Well, I do believe him when he says he was thrown off at Provo. But I also agree with the other posters in saying that this complaint would best be directed at Amtrak Customer Service, and perhaps in a less sensational style. Lucifer, it might be helpful if you could rewrite your complaint in more of an expository, straightforward, factual style, and omit a lot of the adjectives and emphasis, sticking just to the facts. Amtrak will probably respond better to it that way... if you present a compelling case, and if the conductors truly erred in their judgment and handling of your situation, they might even give you a voucher for future travel as amends.

Their address is:

Amtrak Customer Service

60 Massachusetts Ave NE

Washington, DC 20002

 

[Lucifer]

Well, I do believe him when he says he was thrown off at Provo. But I also agree with the other posters in saying that this complaint would best be directed at Amtrak Customer Service, and perhaps in a less sensational style. Lucifer, it might be helpful if you could rewrite your complaint in more of an expository, straightforward, factual style, and omit a lot of the adjectives and emphasis, sticking just to the facts. Amtrak will probably respond better to it that way... if you present a compelling case, and if the conductors truly erred in their judgment and handling of your situation, they might even give you a voucher for future travel as amends.
Their address is:

Amtrak Customer Service

60 Massachusetts Ave NE

Washington, DC 20002

Thank you already done.

 

[eliyahu]

I'll not settle for anything less than cab and airfare covered and have lawyers who say I could make way more than that over this.

ok, this is getting really nasty. i think the biggest problem that some members of the board have had with your posts to date is that they seem (and i stress seem) fictional based on the writing style. we have no way of determining whether any of this is true other than taking your word for it, and when some might read your words as hyperbole, you'll get the responses you have thus far. since i don't have anything that would contradict your story, i'll go ahead and believe your story. there have always been various 'characters' that travel coach on the long-distance trains -- one of the reasons i won't travel in a coach for more than a few hours -- so i can certainly see your story having played out as described.

there are many here who will rush to defend amtrak when it is not warranted, just as there are those that immediately come back with the 'shut 'em down' or 'amtrak is worthless' response. you'll just have to ignore that. but i seriously doubt any attorney worth his/her salt would approach this past a discovery period. they would discover that the conductors' reports will indicate you to be at fault, they would testify as such, and it sounds like any witnesses you would procure (other than your bartender friend) would not be in your favor, and that's assuming they would even respond to your suit without a subpeona. not to mention the funds amtrak could through behind this. at best some shyster is looking for a settlement because this would be a mere annoyance to a firm of amtrak's size. that's not to say it is without merit, i'm just suggesting that i doubt you would be very successful. so a threat of a lawsuit isn't going to help, and certainly not help your credibility on this board.

my hope is that amtrak will follow-up by reading the conductors' reports and then based on your letter and whatever they might say try to come up with an equitable response. i hope this experience hasn't soured you on rail travel -- although i'm not sure if i could stay enthusiastic if thrown off of a train without cause. just keep in mind that amtrak does have the right to deny service with cause at any time; it was part of the contract implied with your ticket purchase. and if you were causing a disturbance -- even if it not your fault -- that would satisfy the legal beavers out there despite the lack of fairness. best of luck in this, and let us know how it turns out.

alan: maybe it might calm some ruffled feathers if we went ahead and locked this thread until there is an update re: amtrak's response? not sure what the board's policy is on threads like this.

-- eliyahu

austin, tx

 

[had8ley]

I'll not settle for anything less than cab and airfare covered and have lawyers who say I could make way more than that over this.

ok, this is getting really nasty. i think the biggest problem that some members of the board have had with your posts to date is that they seem (and i stress seem) fictional based on the writing style. we have no way of determining whether any of this is true other than taking your word for it, and when some might read your words as hyperbole, you'll get the responses you have thus far. since i don't have anything that would contradict your story, i'll go ahead and believe your story. there have always been various 'characters' that travel coach on the long-distance trains -- one of the reasons i won't travel in a coach for more than a few hours -- so i can certainly see your story having played out as described.

there are many here who will rush to defend amtrak when it is not warranted, just as there are those that immediately come back with the 'shut 'em down' or 'amtrak is worthless' response. you'll just have to ignore that. but i seriously doubt any attorney worth his/her salt would approach this past a discovery period. they would discover that the conductors' reports will indicate you to be at fault, they would testify as such, and it sounds like any witnesses you would procure (other than your bartender friend) would not be in your favor, and that's assuming they would even respond to your suit without a subpeona. not to mention the funds amtrak could through behind this. at best some shyster is looking for a settlement because this would be a mere annoyance to a firm of amtrak's size. that's not to say it is without merit, i'm just suggesting that i doubt you would be very successful. so a threat of a lawsuit isn't going to help, and certainly not help your credibility on this board.

my hope is that amtrak will follow-up by reading the conductors' reports and then based on your letter and whatever they might say try to come up with an equitable response. i hope this experience hasn't soured you on rail travel -- although i'm not sure if i could stay enthusiastic if thrown off of a train without cause. just keep in mind that amtrak does have the right to deny service with cause at any time; it was part of the contract implied with your ticket purchase. and if you were causing a disturbance -- even if it not your fault -- that would satisfy the legal beavers out there despite the lack of fairness. best of luck in this, and let us know how it turns out.

alan: maybe it might calm some ruffled feathers if we went ahead and locked this thread until there is an update re: amtrak's response? not sure what the board's policy is on threads like this.

-- eliyahu

austin, tx

If I may interject just one comment~ I have ridden trains both as an employee and a customer and it takes a lot to be taken off a train. Sometimes I marvel at what some conductors put up with. You, sir, committed the highest of Amtrak offenses and were duly invited to find another form of transportation.

Now, that's reality...

 

[D.P. Roberts]

If I may interject just one comment~ I have ridden trains both as an employee and a customer and it takes a lot to be taken off a train. Sometimes I marvel at what some conductors put up with. You, sir, committed the highest of Amtrak offenses and were duly invited to find another form of transportation...

Okay, let's set the OP's "story" aside for a moment (which I, personally, found quite interesting and well written. I'd love to hear more).

From the conductor's point of view, let's ignore the saxaphone, the possible odor, the undercover cops, and the rest. The very last incident is the one that matters. One passenger claims to the conductor that another passenger is harassing people. If the alleged "victims" of the harassment will corroborate this, it should be an easy decision by the conductor. You have a victim and an eyewitness. So, he's guilty of harassment. End of story. From what the OP stated, it sounds like both the victims and the eyewitness disliked him for all the other reasons. A conductor, aside from his or her other duties, can't possibly expected to do a full CSI-style investigation. The victim plus an eyewitness should be enough to put someone off a train.

 

[caravanman]

All human life is there...

I loved the original posters detailed complaint, and it is true that some Amtrak staff are high on their own power trip. I was recently ordered out of the train restroom at 1am by loud hammering on the door and a barked order "GIT OUT HERE IMMEDIATLY" She looked quite crestfallen to find a polite middle aged Engish non - smoker on the end of her summons!

Still, I feel Lucifer is perhaps bedeviled by his own demons (ho ho!)

Ed B)

 

[AlanB]

I have as of tonight cleaned up many of the more negative posts in this thread and I will continue to do so as needed. I am however not going to close this thread at this time either.

I am going to ask that everyone please be civil and polite in this discussion. Whether one believes Lucifer or not, is not a reason for insults, impolite remarks, or out and out criticism. While I can't prove or disprove Lucifier's story, I will say that I have learned through a clandestine source that someone (no name was listed in the report) was indeed thrown off the train in question in Provo.

So there is certainly a very good possibilty that it was Lucifer who was thrown off the train. Since none of us were there, we also only have his version of the story and the events leading up to his being thrown off the train. And as I said in another recent post, there is always two sides to every story.

I don't say this because I dis-believe Lucifer or because I do believe him. But it would certainly appear that something did go wrong on that train and that he was indeed thrown off the train.

So again I ask everyone to please be civil to one another. I'll remind people that Lucifer has responded politely to those who have responded politely to him and his posts. He has only responded negatively to those who responded negatively to him.

This forum is not supposed to be only about the good things that happen at Amtrak. This forum is supposed to be a place where people can learn about Amtrak. It is supposed to be a place where people can come to ask questions about Amtrak. It is supposed to be a place to discuss the good and the bad regarding Amtrak. And it is supposed to be a place where we can have fun and civil conversation.

Remember, a forum is only as rich as its members. I for one, think that we need everyone of our members.

 

[Guest]

AlanB-

Thank you for your civil, honest and fair comments. It is a habit I find on many travel sites, where one cannot voice some disatisfaction without being quickly dismissed by what others have termed "cheerleaders." Not everyone has a good experience and sometimes it has everything to do with the staff of the train and not just "acts of nature" or "acts of the freight line".

I have seen it all on Amtrak (I was on a trip where a legless man refused to go to the bathroom and so went where he sat in the lounge car, it was closed for the duration of the trip due to health concerns) but luckily I was never the one in the middle of something, just an observer and a recipient of the consequences that all passengers faced as a result.

Where's the empathy. The guy writes a quite unbelievable travel log filled with really disturbing occurances and posters bring up the protocal for smoking stops. He even said that wasn't a big issue. Lucifer, I hope you can find some resolution in this matter.

 

[XNWA]

I have as of tonight cleaned up many of the more negative posts in this thread and I will continue to do so as needed. I am however not going to close this thread at this time either.
I am going to ask that everyone please be civil and polite in this discussion. Whether one believes Lucifer or not, is not a reason for insults, impolite remarks, or out and out criticism. While I can't prove or disprove Lucifier's story, I will say that I have learned through a clandestine source that someone (no name was listed in the report) was indeed thrown off the train in question in Provo.

So there is certainly a very good possibilty that it was Lucifer who was thrown off the train. Since none of us were there, we also only have his version of the story and the events leading up to his being thrown off the train. And as I said in another recent post, there is always two sides to every story.

I don't say this because I dis-believe Lucifer or because I do believe him. But it would certainly appear that something did go wrong on that train and that he was indeed thrown off the train.

So again I ask everyone to please be civil to one another. I'll remind people that Lucifer has responded politely to those who have responded politely to him and his posts. He has only responded negatively to those who responded negatively to him.

This forum is not supposed to be only about the good things that happen at Amtrak. This forum is supposed to be a place where people can learn about Amtrak. It is supposed to be a place where people can come to ask questions about Amtrak. It is supposed to be a place to discuss the good and the bad regarding Amtrak. And it is supposed to be a place where we can have fun and civil conversation.

Remember, a forum is only as rich as its members. I for one, think that we need everyone of our members.

I will not respond to the complaints of Lucifer as I do not belive this website is the place to air his bad experince. Amtrak has customer service to air ones views of their experience of Amtrak travel. I believe Lucifer is playing with the members of this website and I belive none of it.

 

[Mike S.]

After reading Alan B's last post, I went back and revised my post. I don't think I should be critical of him playing his sax on the train. Its not my thing, but I shouldn't rag on him for doing it.

 

[Steve4031]

I have as of tonight cleaned up many of the more negative posts in this thread and I will continue to do so as needed. I am however not going to close this thread at this time either.

I am going to ask that everyone please be civil and polite in this discussion. Whether one believes Lucifer or not, is not a reason for insults, impolite remarks, or out and out criticism. While I can't prove or disprove Lucifier's story, I will say that I have learned through a clandestine source that someone (no name was listed in the report) was indeed thrown off the train in question in Provo.

So there is certainly a very good possibilty that it was Lucifer who was thrown off the train. Since none of us were there, we also only have his version of the story and the events leading up to his being thrown off the train. And as I said in another recent post, there is always two sides to every story.

I don't say this because I dis-believe Lucifer or because I do believe him. But it would certainly appear that something did go wrong on that train and that he was indeed thrown off the train.

So again I ask everyone to please be civil to one another. I'll remind people that Lucifer has responded politely to those who have responded politely to him and his posts. He has only responded negatively to those who responded negatively to him.

This forum is not supposed to be only about the good things that happen at Amtrak. This forum is supposed to be a place where people can learn about Amtrak. It is supposed to be a place where people can come to ask questions about Amtrak. It is supposed to be a place to discuss the good and the bad regarding Amtrak. And it is supposed to be a place where we can have fun and civil conversation.

Remember, a forum is only as rich as its members. I for one, think that we need everyone of our members.

I will not respond to the complaints of Lucifer as I do not belive this website is the place to air his bad experince. Amtrak has customer service to air ones views of their experience of Amtrak travel. I believe Lucifer is playing with the members of this website and I belive none of it.

There have been many posts by many people describing bad trips on Amtrak. I think that it is important that these posts are not discouraged. At times, these posts have alerted me to potential problems for when I plan trips. Other times, I have seen people get advice as to how to contact Amtrak and gain resolution to their complaints. In fact, when Amtrak had the refund policy under Downs, posts on this websie helped me to advocate for my girl friend when she was repeatedly asked on a date by a crew member. She got a voucher whcih paid for another trip which she really needed at the time because she did not have money to take two trips.

As for Lucifer, I think his story is plausible. Once problems start, and emotions get going between people, the situation does get convoluted, confusing, and illogical. I work in an urban school, and have first had observations of situations that escalate quickly and then create convoluted scenarios.

 

[Tracksentinel]

If BO is a reason for being tossed off the train there would be plenty of empty seats in Coach IMHO.

 

[Lucifer]

I have as of tonight cleaned up many of the more negative posts in this thread and I will continue to do so as needed. I am however not going to close this thread at this time either.
I am going to ask that everyone please be civil and polite in this discussion. Whether one believes Lucifer or not, is not a reason for insults, impolite remarks, or out and out criticism. While I can't prove or disprove Lucifier's story, I will say that I have learned through a clandestine source that someone (no name was listed in the report) was indeed thrown off the train in question in Provo.

So there is certainly a very good possibilty that it was Lucifer who was thrown off the train. Since none of us were there, we also only have his version of the story and the events leading up to his being thrown off the train. And as I said in another recent post, there is always two sides to every story.

I don't say this because I dis-believe Lucifer or because I do believe him. But it would certainly appear that something did go wrong on that train and that he was indeed thrown off the train.

So again I ask everyone to please be civil to one another. I'll remind people that Lucifer has responded politely to those who have responded politely to him and his posts. He has only responded negatively to those who responded negatively to him.

This forum is not supposed to be only about the good things that happen at Amtrak. This forum is supposed to be a place where people can learn about Amtrak. It is supposed to be a place where people can come to ask questions about Amtrak. It is supposed to be a place to discuss the good and the bad regarding Amtrak. And it is supposed to be a place where we can have fun and civil conversation.

Remember, a forum is only as rich as its members. I for one, think that we need everyone of our members.

Thank you

 

[Lucifer]

After reading Alan B's last post, I went back and revised my post. I don't think I should be critical of him playing his sax on the train. Its not my thing, but I shouldn't rag on him for doing it.

Thanks and if anybody had even slightly been bothered I would have immediatly stopped. Most of us musicians want to please the crowd, not alienate them. Thanks again.

 

[Lucifer]

I'll not settle for anything less than cab and airfare covered and have lawyers who say I could make way more than that over this.

ok, this is getting really nasty. i think the biggest problem that some members of the board have had with your posts to date is that they seem (and i stress seem) fictional based on the writing style. we have no way of determining whether any of this is true other than taking your word for it, and when some might read your words as hyperbole, you'll get the responses you have thus far. since i don't have anything that would contradict your story, i'll go ahead and believe your story. there have always been various 'characters' that travel coach on the long-distance trains -- one of the reasons i won't travel in a coach for more than a few hours -- so i can certainly see your story having played out as described.

there are many here who will rush to defend amtrak when it is not warranted, just as there are those that immediately come back with the 'shut 'em down' or 'amtrak is worthless' response. you'll just have to ignore that. but i seriously doubt any attorney worth his/her salt would approach this past a discovery period. they would discover that the conductors' reports will indicate you to be at fault, they would testify as such, and it sounds like any witnesses you would procure (other than your bartender friend) would not be in your favor, and that's assuming they would even respond to your suit without a subpeona. not to mention the funds amtrak could through behind this. at best some shyster is looking for a settlement because this would be a mere annoyance to a firm of amtrak's size. that's not to say it is without merit, i'm just suggesting that i doubt you would be very successful. so a threat of a lawsuit isn't going to help, and certainly not help your credibility on this board.

my hope is that amtrak will follow-up by reading the conductors' reports and then based on your letter and whatever they might say try to come up with an equitable response. i hope this experience hasn't soured you on rail travel -- although i'm not sure if i could stay enthusiastic if thrown off of a train without cause. just keep in mind that amtrak does have the right to deny service with cause at any time; it was part of the contract implied with your ticket purchase. and if you were causing a disturbance -- even if it not your fault -- that would satisfy the legal beavers out there despite the lack of fairness. best of luck in this, and let us know how it turns out.

alan: maybe it might calm some ruffled feathers if we went ahead and locked this thread until there is an update re: amtrak's response? not sure what the board's policy is on threads like this.

-- eliyahu

austin, tx

Thanks but I am soured on rail travel forever. I think if I had had a traveling companion things would have been different and although there were plenty of people on the train supporting me and outraged at the way the conductors were treating me, I doubt they'll come forward. Sad state of the world that we as people don't stand up for each other more.

 

[Lucifer]

AlanB-
Thank you for your civil, honest and fair comments. It is a habit I find on many travel sites, where one cannot voice some disatisfaction without being quickly dismissed by what others have termed "cheerleaders." Not everyone has a good experience and sometimes it has everything to do with the staff of the train and not just "acts of nature" or "acts of the freight line".

I have seen it all on Amtrak (I was on a trip where a legless man refused to go to the bathroom and so went where he sat in the lounge car, it was closed for the duration of the trip due to health concerns) but luckily I was never the one in the middle of something, just an observer and a recipient of the consequences that all passengers faced as a result.

Where's the empathy. The guy writes a quite unbelievable travel log filled with really disturbing occurances and posters bring up the protocal for smoking stops. He even said that wasn't a big issue. Lucifer, I hope you can find some resolution in this matter.

Thanks

 

[Lucifer]

I have as of tonight cleaned up many of the more negative posts in this thread and I will continue to do so as needed. I am however not going to close this thread at this time either.

I am going to ask that everyone please be civil and polite in this discussion. Whether one believes Lucifer or not, is not a reason for insults, impolite remarks, or out and out criticism. While I can't prove or disprove Lucifier's story, I will say that I have learned through a clandestine source that someone (no name was listed in the report) was indeed thrown off the train in question in Provo.

So there is certainly a very good possibilty that it was Lucifer who was thrown off the train. Since none of us were there, we also only have his version of the story and the events leading up to his being thrown off the train. And as I said in another recent post, there is always two sides to every story.

I don't say this because I dis-believe Lucifer or because I do believe him. But it would certainly appear that something did go wrong on that train and that he was indeed thrown off the train.

So again I ask everyone to please be civil to one another. I'll remind people that Lucifer has responded politely to those who have responded politely to him and his posts. He has only responded negatively to those who responded negatively to him.

This forum is not supposed to be only about the good things that happen at Amtrak. This forum is supposed to be a place where people can learn about Amtrak. It is supposed to be a place where people can come to ask questions about Amtrak. It is supposed to be a place to discuss the good and the bad regarding Amtrak. And it is supposed to be a place where we can have fun and civil conversation.

Remember, a forum is only as rich as its members. I for one, think that we need everyone of our members.

I will not respond to the complaints of Lucifer as I do not belive this website is the place to air his bad experince. Amtrak has customer service to air ones views of their experience of Amtrak travel. I believe Lucifer is playing with the members of this website and I belive none of it.

There have been many posts by many people describing bad trips on Amtrak. I think that it is important that these posts are not discouraged. At times, these posts have alerted me to potential problems for when I plan trips. Other times, I have seen people get advice as to how to contact Amtrak and gain resolution to their complaints. In fact, when Amtrak had the refund policy under Downs, posts on this websie helped me to advocate for my girl friend when she was repeatedly asked on a date by a crew member. She got a voucher whcih paid for another trip which she really needed at the time because she did not have money to take two trips.

As for Lucifer, I think his story is plausible. Once problems start, and emotions get going between people, the situation does get convoluted, confusing, and illogical. I work in an urban school, and have first had observations of situations that escalate quickly and then create convoluted scenarios.

Yes. That's exactly what was happening! It felt like a snowball rolling out of control suddenly after I'd really been enjoying the trip with all it's ups and downs before the new conductors came on. The female conductor was more into trying to get support against me than in trying to solve the problem and changing cars instead of seating me immediatly downstairs from the only people on my entire trip who had a problem with me was only encouraging more problems. And instead of being so hell bent on ruining my trip, if she had offered me a shower up in the sleeper car (if indeed I was really smelly) that would also have been a much more reasonable solution to the problem. Wish these two solutions had occured to me sooner at the time but these are not in my area of expertise as this was my first train trip in many years but as a train conductor I think she should have been more familiar with all the possible options.