Another BNSF derailment

[EmpireBuilderFan]

Once again Amtrak has to bustitute passengers from Spokane, WA, to Shelby, MT, due to a derailment on Marias Pass. This time, 28 grain cars left the tracks causing the line to be blocked until Wednesday (today), at the earliest. Details are on the Billings Gazette in the last article on the "Montana Digest" page.

 

[panamaclipper]

"some freight trains will be rerouted with Montana Rail Link"

Wonder what this is and why Amtrak doesn't use? They've had two derails already up there this year that have curtailed service.

 

[EmpireBuilderFan]

Wonder what this is and why Amtrak doesn't use? They've had two derails already up there this year that have curtailed service.

Montana Rail Link is the old Northern Pacific Railroad mainline through Western Montana. It connects to the Empire Builder's route at Sandpoint, ID, and runs to Helena and just outside of Billings, MT. While the tracks are in good condition, Amtrak won't use MRL's tracks because it's too far out of the way for a detour. It would take at least 8 hours more than the normal time between Spokane and Shelby, MT. It's just easier and quicker to bustitute a couple of days.

 

[steve_relei]

Actually, if Amtrak were to use an all BNSF/MRL route betwee Fargo (ND) and Spokane (WA), the running time would be four or five hours off the Builder's regular running time. At least, the running times were close on the old NP and GN lines and times (they operated as one train between St. Paul and Chicago) and when Amtrak ran the Builder and Hiawatha trains.

 

[battalion51]

But that assumes that the tracks are up to passenger standards, which they probably aren't. So they would have to run at freight speeds which are significantly slower.

 

[EmpireBuilderFan]

But that assumes that the tracks are up to passenger standards, which they probably aren't. So they would have to run at freight speeds which are significantly slower.

That's true. I know MRL has been keeping good care of the tracks since it's a very well used line, but I don't know if it's up to passenger standards. There are the occasional excursion trips, but I'm not sure if they can do 79 MPH or are limited to the freight speeds.

 

[steve_relei]

The MRL does run the Montana Daylight trains during the summer. True, it's speeds are not up to what Amtrak was using, and the train has to wait for freights (it isn't given priority as a passenger train should--but then that seems true of other railroads who do run Amtrak on their lines)--still, it might be an option that might be worth exploring.

 

[panamaclipper]

Big BNSF train wreck north of Dallas yesterday. Two freights hit head on at speed on a main line. One killed, several severely injured. Not an Amtrak route. You got to wonder how that kind of thing happens in this age. Wreck occured right after a long curve on fairly level ground. Both were gravel hauling trains - one empty, one full.

 

[Save Our Trains Michigan]

Big BNSF train wreck north of Dallas yesterday. Two freights hit head on at speed on a main line. One killed, several severely injured. Not an Amtrak route. You got to wonder how that kind of thing happens in this age. Wreck occured right after a long curve on fairly level ground. Both were gravel hauling trains - one empty, one full.

With all the stuff that is going on in the cab it is easy to lose track of things like what signal you just passed.

 

[saxman]

I hope that wreck was cleared because I'm taking the Builder from Grand Forks to East Glacier on Saturday! I Sounds like it should be clear. If not, this will be the third time since November I have been delayed by a derailment along the Builder route. The first was outside Little Falls, MN right ahead of the Amtrak which i was on. They rerouted through Duluth. I luckily got off and got a ride to St. Paul airport and made the very next flight.

The other was in March, happened near Minot, ND. It delayed my train 5 hours. But I was lucky. Two days before, Amtrak didn't even run, the second day it was 17 hours late.

 

[PRR 60]

With all the stuff that is going on in the cab it is easy to lose track of things like what signal you just passed.

Gee, doesn't that give me a warm, fuzzy feeling about riding Amtrak. I suggest that paying attention to signals should be a rather high priority activity in the cab.

 

[GG-1]

Aloha

Mahalo PR-60 for that comment I would hope that nothing distracts from that kind of attention

 

[panamaclipper]

Sorry if there was confusion. As noted in the post, this was in TEXAS. I see the engineer that was killed was found 50 feet from the wrecked loco. He must have jumped or been thrown.

 

[IceColdMintJulep]

Big BNSF train wreck north of Dallas yesterday. Two freights hit head on at speed on a main line. One killed, several severely injured. Not an Amtrak route. You got to wonder how that kind of thing happens in this age. Wreck occured right after a long curve on fairly level ground. Both were gravel hauling trains - one empty, one full.

Last week I went down to the Dallas area and my route takes me right along that line. On the way down, I saw a BNSF coal train that had pulled apart blocking in an intermodal on the siding. They must be having some back luck on that line.

 

[battalion51]

With all the stuff that is going on in the cab it is easy to lose track of things like what signal you just passed.

Gee, doesn't that give me a warm, fuzzy feeling about riding Amtrak. I suggest that paying attention to signals should be a rather high priority activity in the cab.

I personally feel that's part of the reasons eastern railroads call their signals so that you do pay attention to them and verbalize them to make you recognize the indication. Things can get hectic up there, I know they do down here on the South Florida corridor, between 35 trains a day, all trying to get through Conditional Stop Orders, through slow orders, over DD's it does get a bit crazed, but we're very safe down here, I feel confident in all our employees down here.

 

[engine999]

With all the stuff that is going on in the cab it is easy to lose track of things like what signal you just passed.

Gee, doesn't that give me a warm, fuzzy feeling about riding Amtrak. I suggest that paying attention to signals should be a rather high priority activity in the cab.

I personally feel that's part of the reasons eastern railroads call their signals so that you do pay attention to them and verbalize them to make you recognize the indication. Things can get hectic up there, I know they do down here on the South Florida corridor, between 35 trains a day, all trying to get through Conditional Stop Orders, through slow orders, over DD's it does get a bit crazed, but we're very safe down here, I feel confident in all our employees down here.

I feel confident in the employees, just no the track. CSX like to keep its tracks at a bare minimum for standards.

 

[The Chief]

I personally feel that's part of the reasons eastern railroads call their signals so that you do pay attention to them and verbalize them to make you recognize the indication.... we're very safe down here, I feel confident in all our employees down here.

As I've told you before in this Forum, calling cab signals is not just an "Eastern" practice.

Once again, when I was in train service in the Midwest, and Southwest, we always called our signals.

I know they do the same in the West, and Northwest, also.

BTW, the BNSF cornfield meet in North Texas this week was in track warrant territory. Axy occurred on an "S" curve.

 

[battalion51]

Now when you say call signals do you mean you broadcast it over the road channel with your train ID, or do you mean that you verbalize it to whoever's in the cab? I know Matt's said they "call" signals out in Louisiana on BNSF by saying it to each other in the cab. To me calling a signal is transmitting it on the road channel.

 

[EmpireBuilderFan]

I hope that wreck was cleared because I'm taking the Builder from Grand Forks to East Glacier on Saturday! I Sounds like it should be clear.

Not to fear! The derailment that was mentioned in the original post occured almost a month ago. As far as I know, the Builder is doing quite well. As a matter of fact, it's keeping it's more typical time keeping. Looking at #7 departures from Williston, ND (my hometown and about half way on the Builder's route) over the past week, it's left the station no later than 60 minutes down, and even left on time one day. For Amtrak long distance trains, that's excellent time keeping, and pretty normal for the Builder. Usually, if it's within an hour of scheduled at Williston, it'll be on time by the time it gets to the end points.

 

[Save Our Trains Michigan]

The BNSF accident happend in Dark teratory the one train had a box 7 which is an after arrival of a train for some reason they thought they had meet the last train and left the area 20 min before the other train was able to meet them.What i ment with all the stuff going on in the cab it's not talking you have to constinly look at your GTBs for slow orders form Bs fill out signal awarness forms and talk on the radio with the dispatcher you can get lost in where your at because your doing 5 things at once.

 

[Save Our Trains Michigan]

Here is the story on what happend from the UTU News web site

UTU News

 

[panamaclipper]

So if I run a red signal light, doesn't some kind of alarm ring in the cab? If not, wouldn't that be easy to do these days? Heck, with computers you could even have the switch shut the train down if it tried to run a red signal.

 

[AlanB]

So if I run a red signal light, doesn't some kind of alarm ring in the cab? If not, wouldn't that be easy to do these days? Heck, with computers you could even have the switch shut the train down if it tried to run a red signal.

Sure it's easy to have the computer to apply the brakes if you run a red signal.

However the definition of Dark Territory is, there are no signals. Therefore even if the engine had the correct technology to hit the brakes, without a red signal or any signal for that matter, the computer still wouldn't know that the engineer was doing something wrong. So the computer wouldn't bother to stop the train.

 

[engine999]

So if I run a red signal light, doesn't some kind of alarm ring in the cab? If not, wouldn't that be easy to do these days? Heck, with computers you could even have the switch shut the train down if it tried to run a red signal.

Not unless the proper technology is in place along the row. Most of the track in the US, with signals dose not have that type of technology. Only places where the max speed is 80mph otr above is that technology needed. Thats why most amtrak trains have a max authorized speed of 79mph. Most rapid transit systems now have that technology implace, with brake levers(I think thats what its called) that can triger the emergencies.

 

[Save Our Trains Michigan]

Now when you say call signals do you mean you broadcast it over the road channel with your train ID, or do you mean that you verbalize it to whoever's in the cab? I know Matt's said they "call" signals out in Louisiana on BNSF by saying it to each other in the cab. To me calling a signal is transmitting it on the road channel.

And i have brought that up to the BNSF Rules people they don't agree with calling signals out over the radio for the fact they say you can cheat on the next signal if you hear the train ahead of you call them out.