Auto Train new consist reporting thread

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Corporate Spin is almost as full of it as Political Spin!

My favorite is the blurb about your vehicles will enjoy the trip in their enclosed car carriers while you enjoy the scenery in the dark!

They can't be serious!
During the summer there can be 3-4 hours of daylight on either end of a trip. Ok, so it is not particularly interesting scenery, but there is scenery to look at.

As for the vehicles, why wouldn't the cars enjoy a trip in a comfortable enclosed car carrier more than a 850 mile boring, life span shortening drive down I-95? ;)
 
Here's the email I just rec'd:

Dear Auto Train Passenger,

In an effort to be good stewards of the federal funding received to operate our Amtrak service, a number of steps are being taken to eliminate losses in our Food and Beverage department over the next five years. Some of the changes being made to accomplish this include the discontinuation of select amenities offered on Auto Train.

Effective March 14, 2014, the Sleeping car lounge will be removed from Auto Train and replaced with an additional Coach car to allow greater seating capacity for our passengers. Additionally, complimentary wine served with dinner will be discontinued as well as the on-board wine and cheese tastings for Sleeping car passengers. Passengers will continue to receive all regular meals in the dining car at no additional charge, and passengers may purchase cheese and cracker trays and other snacks, as well as liquor, wine and beer, in the Lounge car.

While it is never easy to tell you, our valued customers, that we are eliminating some of the amenities, these changes are necessary in order to reduce costs, increase revenues and preserve passenger rail service across our country. If you have any questions or comments about these changes, feel free to contact me using the “contact us” link on the Amtrak.com home page.

Thank you for traveling with Amtrak. We appreciate your patronage.

Sincerely,

Mark Murphy

General Manager, Long -Distance Services

BTW, "Mark", thanx fir nuthin!

Join us on facebook.com/Amtrak, and follow us on twitter.com/Amtrak.
 
This is the way the AT consist is shaping up. If anyone has the new coach number let me know, I'm assuming its 14.


----|---- —— Superliner Dorm
5245|5345 —— Superliner Sleeper
5243|5343 —— Superliner Sleeper
5241|5341 —— Superliner Sleeper Deluxe
----|---- —— Superliner Diner
5240|5340 —— Superliner Sleeper Deluxe
5242|5342 —— Superliner Sleeper
5244|5344 —— Superliner Sleeper
----|---- —— Superliner Auto Train Lounge
5210|5310 —— Superliner Coach
5211|5311 —— Superliner Coach
5212|5312 —— Superliner Coach
5213|5313 —— Superliner Coach
5214|5314 —— Superliner Coach
----|---- —— Superliner Diner
----|---- —— Superliner Diner (as table car)
 
This is the way the AT consist is shaping up. If anyone has the new coach number let me know, I'm assuming its 14.


----|---- —— Superliner Dorm
5245|5345 —— Superliner Sleeper
5243|5343 —— Superliner Sleeper
5241|5341 —— Superliner Sleeper Deluxe
----|---- —— Superliner Diner
5240|5340 —— Superliner Sleeper Deluxe
5242|5342 —— Superliner Sleeper
5244|5344 —— Superliner Sleeper
----|---- —— Superliner Auto Train Lounge
5210|5310 —— Superliner Coach
5211|5311 —— Superliner Coach
5212|5312 —— Superliner Coach
5213|5313 —— Superliner Coach
5214|5314 —— Superliner Coach
----|---- —— Superliner Diner
----|---- —— Superliner Diner (as table car)
It is interesting that they don't put the coach dining cars in the middle of the coaches, both for convenience as well as reducing some of the foot traffic the passengers in the 10 coach will have to endure
 
This is the way the AT consist is shaping up. If anyone has the new coach number let me know, I'm assuming its 14.

----|---- Superliner Dorm

5245|5345 Superliner Sleeper

5243|5343 Superliner Sleeper

5241|5341 Superliner Sleeper Deluxe

----|---- Superliner Diner

5240|5340 Superliner Sleeper Deluxe

5242|5342 Superliner Sleeper

5244|5344 Superliner Sleeper

----|---- Superliner Auto Train Lounge

5210|5310 Superliner Coach

5211|5311 Superliner Coach

5212|5312 Superliner Coach

5213|5313 Superliner Coach

5214|5314 Superliner Coach

----|---- Superliner Diner

----|---- Superliner Diner (as table car)
It is interesting that they don't put the coach dining cars in the middle of the coaches, both for convenience as well as reducing some of the foot traffic the passengers in the 10 coach will have to endure
If they put the diner cars in the middle of the coaches it will mean the coach cars will be attached right to the engines causing noise and fume issues in that car.
 
Here's the email I just rec'd:

Dear Auto Train Passenger,

In an effort to be good stewards of the federal funding received to operate our Amtrak service, a number of steps are being taken to eliminate losses in our Food and Beverage department over the next five years. Some of the changes being made to accomplish this include the discontinuation of select amenities offered on Auto Train.

Effective March 14, 2014, the Sleeping car lounge will be removed from Auto Train and replaced with an additional Coach car to allow greater seating capacity for our passengers. Additionally, complimentary wine served with dinner will be discontinued as well as the on-board wine and cheese tastings for Sleeping car passengers. Passengers will continue to receive all regular meals in the dining car at no additional charge, and passengers may purchase cheese and cracker trays and other snacks, as well as liquor, wine and beer, in the Lounge car.

While it is never easy to tell you, our valued customers, that we are eliminating some of the amenities, these changes are necessary in order to reduce costs, increase revenues and preserve passenger rail service across our country. If you have any questions or comments about these changes, feel free to contact me using the “contact us” link on the Amtrak.com home page.

Thank you for traveling with Amtrak. We appreciate your patronage.

Sincerely,

Mark Murphy

General Manager, Long -Distance Services

BTW, "Mark", thanx fir nuthin!

Join us on facebook.com/Amtrak, and follow us on twitter.com/Amtrak.
I'm glad you received an email. I'm booked on the AT for July and I haven't received anything yet. When they decided to change the smoking policy on the AT last year I received 25 emails and a dozen phone calls! I guess they want to keep this one quite! I just hope the little water bottles in the rooms and the coffee machines are still there!
 
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With twenty one 'voyages' to date, I think I'm amongst the most regular Auto Train riders around here, and the more thought I give to the more draconian amenity cuts to AT, the more I think smart move that will not affect my future patronage of the service.

Originally, the wine tasting was just that where both Virginia and Florida winemakers would supply their product to Amtrak and have one of their own representatives on board to explain their varietals much the same as you would find visiting those wineries tasting rooms. However that 'tasting' has simply evolved into 'Happy Hour' where the lower end Williamsburg Winery generic Red and White are poured by an Amtrak Attendant seated at a table in the Lounge for the passengers to line up and take 'em away. This past journey, I was seated with three others; one of whose company I could have done nicely without, but let's put the blame for that on myself as I readily admit I'm not the most sociable guy you'll meet along the way.

So far as the prepared to order steak going away in favor of the casseroles presently served to Coach passengers; well just 'buck it up'.

Instead, I'll simply BYOB at maybe $15 and have my own 'Happy Hour' in the privacy of my room reading The Times and Journal; during Dinner, I'll simply do without, and finish the bottle (so far as I know, ice and buckets in the Sleepers are not a casualty) before 'hitting the hay'.

All told, the addition of a Coach and whacking one of the two Lounges simply represent a smart move towards maximizing revenue. We should note that the former smoking room has now been converted to additional Lounge tables; the only wasted space is the former phone booth, which I trust is now used for supplies as it is padlocked. I don't think I have ever used a Lounge car on any Amtrak journey I've taken save one time during my '01 voyage. I was seated with a couple - Doctor, Nurse, Bennie S, and a Roomette (no Bedrooms available) where we were discussing classical music, however, it was time for the movie and she smelt a whiff of smoke - and that was that. The Lounge is simply one car to walk through on my way to the Diner.

Really, it isn't the end of the world
 
We should note that the former smoking room has now been converted to additional Lounge tables; the only wasted space is the former phone booth, which I trust is now used for supplies as it is padlocked.
Well, if you take the AT again, please comment on whether the lounge is crowded as you walk through. If the lounge is uncrowded... then I guess the train only needed one lounge, and that was my mistake.

The majority of Amtrak's longer-distance trains run with crowded lounges, and if they had as many passengers as the Auto Train they would NEED two lounges. Frankly, the Coast Starlight and Empire Builder already need two lounges (CS has two, EB doesn't); the Lake Shore Limited usually actually runs two lounges, and it definitely needs them. (Even at night.)

So I found it hard to believe that the *even longer* Auto Train could manage with only one lounge. But maybe the schedule and end-to-end nature of the train means that the lounges are particularly underused.
 
While I have never found the AT sleeper lounge empty, or even underutilized during waking hours, I have noticed the amount of passengers buying items in the lounge could not possible cover the employee costs. With that said, I think the knee jerk reaction to pull the sleeper lounge just because it did not generate enough income was hasty and wrong. They could have just as easily pulled the attendant and left the car. Not every car has to be income generating. Diners on the AT technically does not generate income either, but there are three of them.

Along these lines, hotels provide a gym for its guests, and they do not generate any income. If the hotel wanted to maximize income they could turn all gyms into rooms, but they don't. It's provided as a convince to paying guests. Providing an amenity doesn't have to cost anything, but it shouldn't always have to generate income either.

Now I know that people will say that the cars cost money, but they were there anyway, why not just provide a nice amenity. I don't think that two lounge cars for up to 600 passengers is excessive.
 
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While I have never found the AT sleeper lounge empty, or even underutilized during waking hours, I have noticed the amount of passengers buying items in the lounge could not possible cover the employee costs. With that said, I think the knee jerk reaction to pull the sleeper lounge just because it did not generate enough income was hasty and wrong. They could have just as easily pulled the attendant and left the car.
Bingo. That's what I was thinking.

Apparently, however, the removal of the lounge car is due to an arbitrary and capricious limit on the length of the train imposed by CSX -- in order to add another coach they had to remove something. *sigh*.

Not for the first time, I say, damn CSX.
 
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While I note Mr. Allypet's immediate comment that the now former Sleeper Lounge was being used, I foun it to be cleared out when returning to my car, Line 5241 'Palm--' on 52(26FEB) after 5PM Dinner.

Now elimination of the 'free buzz with no driving concerns', might enhance alcohol sales, I think the Sleeper crowd will simply 'hole up' in what they have already paid for (and it was 'plenty' on the noted 'voyage'). For myself, I'll just BYOB @, say, $15 which will be offset by the $5 tip I left at Happy Hour. I'll have time to do The Times and Journal that I had not previously done considering the drive, in my case, from Boca to Sanford.

Again as I noted at my previous post, which to those who follow my material at RRNET possibly noted was adapted from what was posted there, Amtrak has opened the previous
smoking area to passenger use. Tables and TV monitors have been installed there, so extra seating capacity is now available.

Also of note, there has been one Sightseer Lounge assigned to the AT equipment pool. Presumably that car will be released to the Chicago pool lessening the possibility that the Chief, Eagle, or Zephyr will depart with a substitute 370XX X-Country in place of the Lounge. An X-Country in the consist of the Zephyr I would think would make some feel 'gypped'.

Lest one not familiar with the area wonder, Florida scenery can best be summarized as 'if you've seen one Pine Tree, you've seen 'em all'. Why any road, be it SAL, private AT, or Amtrak, has ever spent a dime on sightseeing equipment for that route escapes me. FEC and ACL were wise on that point.
 
I thought that name and posting style rang a bell. Welcome to AU, Mr. Norman. We'd love to have you sign up as a member if you're so inclined.

While I have never found the AT sleeper lounge empty, or even underutilized during waking hours, I have noticed the amount of passengers buying items in the lounge could not possible cover the employee costs. With that said, I think the knee jerk reaction to pull the sleeper lounge just because it did not generate enough income was hasty and wrong. They could have just as easily pulled the attendant and left the car.
Bingo. That's what I was thinking.

Apparently, however, the removal of the lounge car is due to an arbitrary and capricious limit on the length of the train imposed by CSX -- in order to add another coach they had to remove something. *sigh*.

Not for the first time, I say, damn CSX.
I'm pretty sure the limit has more to do with not setting the power cables on fire than CSX's limit.
 
I'm pretty sure the limit has more to do with not setting the power cables on fire than CSX's limit.
No, because if it were *just* that, Amtrak would:(1) scrape up a couple of power generator cars and wire up some sort of control for them

(or 1a) retrofit lighting or HVAC in the cars to reduce energy usage

(2) add *multiple* additional coaches, and really start to rake in the money

But apparently one extra coach, plus the autoracks associated with the cars of the passengers in said coach, is running up against the 50-car limit set by CSX, which makes it pointless to add a power car or retrofit the electricals.
 
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Sorry, I'm not buying that.

1) Costs money. They're trying to raise money, not spend it.

2) What other cars would you get rid of?
(1) You have to spend money (capital) to make money (operating). It costs money to run trains. By your logic, Amtrak should just cancel the Auto Train. (Worth noting: energy efficiency upgrades will actually save money by saving fuel, even *before* considering the ability to add more coaches to the train.)

(2) None. That's my entire *point*.
 
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1) I understand that completely. You may have noticed Amtrak doesn't have piles of cash to throw around right now. Given the choice between increasing revenue and cutting costs (one less LSA) and increasing revenue and increasing costs, it's completely logical that they do the former.

2) I must have missed your point then. How does that support your argument that CSX, not the laws of physics is the problem here?
 
How often does the AT reach 50 cars? On all my trips it's been well under 50 cars, and all the reporting I have seen put in in the 30's and 40's range.

Also a friend in Amtrak tells me that the fresh fruit will be discontinued as soon as the supplies run out, the water bottles in the sleeper cars are in danger of being cut out also, but the coffee machines right now are safe. I hope they don't take the sheets next. :)
 
With the new configuration on AT, that single coach lounge car will become overcrowded and some people will not get a chance to enjoy the car. I've been on too many trips where the coach lounge was PACKED. Some people do not vacate seats in a reasonable interval where others could have a chance to be seated. I can see this being an immediate problem.

I also wonder WHERE will the passengers wait to be seated in the diner? I'm all for being positive, but this new AT plan could become a PR nightmare and quickly!
 
Now I know why they have eliminated the wine and cheese tastings: they are redundant. There marketing department provide enough cheese to rival Wisconsin. And all they have to do is provide a link to AU and the passengers will have as much whine as they can handle.
 
1) I understand that completely. You may have noticed Amtrak doesn't have piles of cash to throw around right now. Given the choice between increasing revenue and cutting costs (one less LSA)
I should clarify something: I see absolutely no reason to keep the extra LSA either way.

I am solely disputing the choice of removing the lounge car. The Lake Shore Limited has a second unattended lounge for much of its run. So I do not count the removal of the LSA as a cost reduction associated with the removal of the lounge.

Adding one more coach sounds great, but if the lounge and diner both end up overcrowded, it's just going to damage Amtrak's reputation. And that is worth a great deal.

The Auto Train is attracting only the high-end market. We know the people taking it have access to a car. The car fee by itself is already more than it costs to drive a typical car from Lorton to Sanford (inclusive of mileage-based maintenance & depreciation costs!). The passengers are, therefore, paying a premium for comfort. How much of a premium will they pay? Well, it's hard to tell, but the worse the conditions get, the lower the ticket prices that can be charged. Overcrowded lounge == complaints.

Now, regarding spending capital funds to save on operating funds -- which Amtrak needs to do.

LED lighting uses half the energy of florescents and lasts five times as long.

If Amtrak still has any incandescents in the Superliners (and I believe they do), LED lighting uses *one tenth* the energy and lasts *40 times* as long.

This is a household comparison. http://eartheasy.com/live_led_bulbs_comparison.html#c It's not accurate for something like Amtrak -- the savings is probably greater because getting LEDs for hardwiring is cheaper than getting them in "bulb" form.

Yes, LEDs are more expensive up front. They'd probably pay for themselves *in the first year* under the heavy duty cycles in the Superliners, with the expensive electricity generation from diesel fuel.

And there goes the "we can't support any more cars with this much electricity" argument.

HVAC replacement would be more expensive up front than lighting replacement, but modern HVAC probably uses roughly half the energy of the 1970s HVAC in the Superliners, due to more efficient designs. Again, this is an improvement which would pay for itself in a few years.... *and* get rid of the "we can't support any more cars with this much electricity" argument.

Actually, both these things should probably be done anyway, if the Superliners are expected to keep running for ten more years. The payback in energy savings alone is exceptionally fast on lighting and pretty fast on HVAC too.

Now, if the single lounge doesn't fill up? Well, then I was wrong. If it does? I hope Amtrak figures out that it had better add another lounge car. No excuses about HEP permitted -- retrofit the cars to use less electricity and do it.

----

I've gone way off topic onto the topic of energy efficiency on board trains. But it started interesting me more and more.

I can't find good quotes for the energy efficiency of Amtrak's diesel generators in the P42s. Wikipedia tells me that diesel generators use from 0.28 to 0.40 litres of fuel per kWh. Some calculation based on that, and based on $4/gallon diesel, gives me an Amtrak cost of on-board electricity ranging from 29.6 cents per kWh to 42.3 cents per kWh.

This is *expensive* electricity. If there is any non-LED lighting in any Amtrak car, the payback time for replacing it is going to be *short*. The payback time for replacing the HVAC will be pretty short too.
 
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I get a three horn blast from my wife on this from time to time.

"But honey if we invest a little in X it will pay for itself easily in 4-6 months and-"

"I know, BUT WE DONT HAVE THE MONEY!"

Nuff said.
 
The Auto Train is attracting only the high-end market. We know the people taking it have access to a car. The car fee by itself is already more than it costs to drive a typical car from Lorton to Sanford (inclusive of mileage-based maintenance & depreciation costs!).
Mr. Nerode, perchance you drive about in something like a Nissan Cube, but I guarantee you that Auto Train is the Bennie-Caddy-Lex crowd; not entirely of course, but in season when I ride, that appears to be the case.

The auto transport component of my fare last month was $186. While that sum will cover gas (810mi/25mpg X $4.25ga), it won't make much of a dent towards the 'running' maintenacne of any such vehicle. Note too that I am excluding any provision for the4 fixed costs like depreciation and interes.

The only scenario I can hold in which AT would be price competitive would be with a single person driving a high maintenance large older vehicle and willing to ride Coach; beyond that I wholly agree that there is a convenience rate to the fare.
 
I think something people lose sight of with Auto Train is that you're paying for a service here. You and your vehicle are being transported about 850 miles. You're saving the gas cost sure, but how much is not driving that 850 miles worth to you? For someone traveling by themselves, for the snowbirds, or for the families being able to kick back and relax versus driving all night is worth it. It all comes back to the economics of cost/benefit, everyone will have their own perceptions of this.
 
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I think something people lose sight of with Auto Train is that you're paying for a service here. You and your vehicle are being transported about 850 miles. You're saving the gas cost sure, but how much is not driving that 850 miles worth to you? For someone traveling by themselves, for the snowbirds, or for the families being able to kick back and relax versus driving all night is worth it. It all comes back to the economics of cost/benefit, everyone will have their own perceptions of this.
Yes there is a service being provided. However if you are trading being stuck in an automobile with the kids, to being stuck in a sleeper bedroom with the kids because there is no lounge (or room in the coach lounge) to go to, I think the train quickly loses it's advantage when compared to driving.
 
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