Boy Scout Trip to Philmont on SWC

[Kramerica]

In mid-July, I'll be traveling with a group of 23 people (8 adults, 15 scouts ages 13-17) from Milwaukee WI to Philmont Scout Ranch (Raton) in New Mexico. It has been over a decade since I last used Amtrak (SEA to MKE, coach; and MKE to NO, roomette) I'd like to get some information about what we can expect on our trip.

11:00 AM MKE-CHI 12:29 PM Hiawatha
2:50 PM CHI-RAT 10:25 AM SWC

4:42 PM RAT-CHI 2:50 PM SWC
5:08 PM CHI-MKE 6:45 PM Hiawatha

- We'll each have one large backpacking pack and a regular backpack. Will we be able to keep all of that with us in coach, or will our large packs go in the baggage car?
- Will we be seated all together in one half of a coach car? What about on our way back when we all board at Raton?
- Will there be a sightseer lounge on the SWC? Will it be a SSL with only seating or will it be the style with booths at one end?
- What kind of food will be available in the SSL?
- Will we have any opportunity to eat in the diner?
- Are styrofoam coolers allowed on the train?
- Are any pillows or blankets provided in coach?
- Is there an outlet at every pair of seats?

- At Chicago Union Station, is there a good large area for us to wait?
- Is the food court open at CUS? The website currently says 'reduced services'.
- Are there any good stops on our route? I see KC will be about 45 minutes.

- Is there any sort of printable timetable available?
- Is there any sort of route description pamphlet, like there used to be on the LD trains? Most people in my party have not been on a train and the TT and route description would be very interesting to all of them.
- Is there any interesting scenery or places we should be on the lookout for on our ride?
- Is there a website where I can see how on-time the SWC has been in recent months?

- From what I read on this forum it will be the luck of the draw on how strict the OBS will be about mask enforcement. I'm hoping we can at least have them off during sleep or at our seats.
- Any other tips or issues that I wasn't smart enough to ask about?

Thank you!

 

[railiner]

Some of your questions can be answered here. Amtrak Group Travel


I would suggest you contact Amtrak's Group Sales for some of your other question's, hopefully with a written or emailed response...

 

[neroden]

Amtrak, due to fairly spectacular failures, is currently not producing any printable timetables. You can find some over here:

https://www.railpassengers.org/resources/amtrak-timetables/
If you want this to change, please complain to Amtrak.

They are also not producing route guides.

You will need to keep your masks on at all times when in your seats, except when actively putting a bite of food or a sip of a drink in your mouth. The other passengers don't know whether you're vaccinated.

Amtrak is not currently letting coach passengers eat in the dining car. Again, if you want this to change, please complain to Amtrak.

For on-time performance, check this website. ASMAD - Amtrak Status Maps Archive Database - Home

 

[Bob Dylan]

There's plenty of Trip Reports and threads about Scouts on the SWC to/from the Ranch,please research them here on AU.

As for Masks, it is still Federal and Amtrak Rules that Masks will be worn @ all times on Amtrak Trains, (and other means of Public Transportation also), except in your Privste Room, or while eating or drinking.


Like all things Amtrak, it's up to the Crews as to how the rule is enforced,n some are strict and others are Slackers.

 

[MARC Rider]

Having traveled with a full-sized backpack in the past, I believe the overhead luggage racks in the coaches should be able to fit your backpacks. Also, the Chief Between Chicago and Raton has downstairs luggage racks.

Back in 1968, I went to Philmont via a charter bust from Philly to Chicago, the Denver Zephyr from Chicago to Denver, and another charter bus from Denver to Philmont. I recall that we carried our backpacks on the train and stowed them in the overhead racks. Of course, the train equipment was different back then.

 

[Cal]

Not sure about everything, I'll give you my guesses.

- We'll each have one large backpacking pack and a regular backpack. Will we be able to keep all of that with us in coach, or will our large packs go in the baggage car?
- Will we be seated all together in one half of a coach car? What about on our way back when we all board at Raton?

I believe Amtrak usually puts everyone to one car. Bags might be a tight fit (On another thread of boyscouts boarding at Raton shows a picture of someone putting a bag into the baggage car)

- Will there be a sightseer lounge on the SWC? Will it be a SSL with only seating or will it be the style with booths at one end?
- What kind of food will be available in the SSL?

Yes, you have a almost 100% chance of getting booths for 1/4 of the car and lounge chairs for the rest.

They have a cafe downstairs, this is the menu. https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/...ts/menus/national/National-Cafe-Menu-1020.pdf

- Will we have any opportunity to eat in the diner?

Probably not, currently Amtrak is only offering the diner to sleeping passengers, they are saying that they will let coach get food from the diner sometime soon, I don't expect it to be next month though.

- Are any pillows or blankets provided in coach?

No, the SSL might provide a "comfort kit" that includes a blanket and I believe an eye mask. It's 10 bucks.

- Is there an outlet at every pair of seats?

Should be, possibly even two. Both would be by the window.

- At Chicago Union Station, is there a good large area for us to wait?
- Is the food court open at CUS? The website currently says 'reduced services'.

The Great Hall should have plenty of seats, last time I was there it was empty. I'm unsure on the status of the food court, there should be a handful of restaurants within a block of the station, I know there's at least two (one being a pizza place).

- Are there any good stops on our route? I see KC will be about 45 minutes.

Kansas City is the longest stop on your section AFAIK. There will be a handful of extended stops, should be at Fort Madison, Kansas City, and La Junta.

- Is there any sort of printable timetable available?

You can use this, it is outdated (not update when trains went daily), the times should be the same.

- Is there any sort of route description pamphlet, like there used to be on the LD trains? Most people in my party have not been on a train and the TT and route description would be very interesting to all of them.

Amtrak doesn't produce any at the moment, this is an old one which I believe was made by Amtrak. Found on this website.

- Is there any interesting scenery or places we should be on the lookout for on our ride?

Yes, Raton Pass, shortly before your arrival into Raton is one of the highlights. It includes the highest elevation on the trip at about 7,500 feet IIRC. Sit on the right side for the best scenery. Unfortunately the best scenery IMHO will not be available for your trip, as it's after your train departs Raton.

- Is there a website where I can see how on-time the SWC has been in recent months?

ASMAD - Amtrak Status Maps Archive Database - Train History Search Great website here, they also have a page of former timetables which is where I got the Chief one posted above.

ASMAD - Amtrak Status Maps Archive Database - Train Connections History Search You can use this one to check connecting trains, as I see you are making a connection.

- Any other tips or issues that I wasn't smart enough to ask about?

You got all of them I would think of! Just have an open mind and have fun.

- From what I read on this forum it will be the luck of the draw on how strict the OBS will be about mask enforcement. I'm hoping we can at least have them off during sleep or at our seats.

I would think having them off for many hours (I'm guessing 3-8) kind of defeats the purpose of wearing a mask at all....

 

[1976steve]

In mid-July, I'll be traveling with a group of 23 people (8 adults, 15 scouts ages 13-17) from Milwaukee WI to Philmont Scout Ranch (Raton) in New Mexico. It has been over a decade since I last used Amtrak (SEA to MKE, coach; and MKE to NO, roomette) I'd like to get some information about what we can expect on our trip.

11:00 AM MKE-CHI 12:29 PM Hiawatha
2:50 PM CHI-RAT 10:25 AM SWC

4:42 PM RAT-CHI 2:50 PM SWC
5:08 PM CHI-MKE 6:45 PM Hiawatha

- We'll each have one large backpacking pack and a regular backpack. Will we be able to keep all of that with us in coach, or will our large packs go in the baggage car?
- Will we be seated all together in one half of a coach car? What about on our way back when we all board at Raton?
- Will there be a sightseer lounge on the SWC? Will it be a SSL with only seating or will it be the style with booths at one end?
- What kind of food will be available in the SSL?
- Will we have any opportunity to eat in the diner?
- Are styrofoam coolers allowed on the train?
- Are any pillows or blankets provided in coach?
- Is there an outlet at every pair of seats?

- At Chicago Union Station, is there a good large area for us to wait?
- Is the food court open at CUS? The website currently says 'reduced services'.
- Are there any good stops on our route? I see KC will be about 45 minutes.

- Is there any sort of printable timetable available?
- Is there any sort of route description pamphlet, like there used to be on the LD trains? Most people in my party have not been on a train and the TT and route description would be very interesting to all of them.
- Is there any interesting scenery or places we should be on the lookout for on our ride?
- Is there a website where I can see how on-time the SWC has been in recent months?

- From what I read on this forum it will be the luck of the draw on how strict the OBS will be about mask enforcement. I'm hoping we can at least have them off during sleep or at our seats.
- Any other tips or issues that I wasn't smart enough to ask about?

Thank you!

I will share with you what I am able:
I believe there will be a SSL
Snacks like microwave sandwiches, soft drinks, coffee, small snack foods,etc in SSL

In mid-July, I'll be traveling with a group of 23 people (8 adults, 15 scouts ages 13-17) from Milwaukee WI to Philmont Scout Ranch (Raton) in New Mexico. It has been over a decade since I last used Amtrak (SEA to MKE, coach; and MKE to NO, roomette) I'd like to get some information about what we can expect on our trip.

11:00 AM MKE-CHI 12:29 PM Hiawatha
2:50 PM CHI-RAT 10:25 AM SWC

4:42 PM RAT-CHI 2:50 PM SWC
5:08 PM CHI-MKE 6:45 PM Hiawatha

- We'll each have one large backpacking pack and a regular backpack. Will we be able to keep all of that with us in coach, or will our large packs go in the baggage car?
- Will we be seated all together in one half of a coach car? What about on our way back when we all board at Raton?
- Will there be a sightseer lounge on the SWC? Will it be a SSL with only seating or will it be the style with booths at one end?
- What kind of food will be available in the SSL?
- Will we have any opportunity to eat in the diner?
- Are styrofoam coolers allowed on the train?
- Are any pillows or blankets provided in coach?
- Is there an outlet at every pair of seats?

- At Chicago Union Station, is there a good large area for us to wait?
- Is the food court open at CUS? The website currently says 'reduced services'.
- Are there any good stops on our route? I see KC will be about 45 minutes.

- Is there any sort of printable timetable available?
- Is there any sort of route description pamphlet, like there used to be on the LD trains? Most people in my party have not been on a train and the TT and route description would be very interesting to all of them.
- Is there any interesting scenery or places we should be on the lookout for on our ride?
- Is there a website where I can see how on-time the SWC has been in recent months?

- From what I read on this forum it will be the luck of the draw on how strict the OBS will be about mask enforcement. I'm hoping we can at least have them off during sleep or at our seats.
- Any other tips or issues that I wasn't smart enough to ask about?

Thank you!

Here's a pdf of the last timetable I have:

 

[Ryan]

I did this back when I was much younger (709D3, summer of 1994).

Kansas is long. Mindboggelingly long when you're 14.

We brought some of the wide shrink-wrap plastic stuff and wrapped our packs securely before loading them on the train to make sure everything stayed securely inside.

Absolutely loved it. Have a great trip, and enjoy the hike! What trek are you doing?

 

[lordsigma]

I had 100+ scouts on my trip SWC Where I arrived in Chicago today There were some who got off in RAT from the west and some who were getting on to go east. They loaded their backpacks with the conductors assistance in to the baggage car and were removed the same way at the stops in which scouts were departing . I’m guessing this is a special arrangement they do for scout groups - I’d contact group sales as someone else suggested. I then saw some that got off in Chicago transferring to Toledo on the CL - they were in line to check their backpacks for that portion. Given that Raton is an unstaffed stop I’m guessing they have that unique setup for the scouts this time of year. As suggested - contact group sales at Amtrak.

 

[Willbridge]

I had 100+ scouts on my trip SWC Where I arrived in Chicago today There were some who got off in RAT from the west and some who were getting on to go east. They loaded their backpacks with the conductors assistance in to the baggage car and were removed the same way at the stops in which scouts were departing . I’m guessing this is a special arrangement they do for scout groups - I’d contact group sales as someone else suggested. I then saw some that got off in Chicago transferring to Toledo on the CL - they were in line to check their backpacks for that portion. Given that Raton is an unstaffed stop I’m guessing they have that unique setup for the scouts this time of year. As suggested - contact group sales at Amtrak.

Stacking and unstacking the Scouts' baggage in a bucket brigade process is what I've seen every time at Raton. It goes pretty smoothly.

 

[frequentflyer]

Saw something weird on the La Plata cam yesterday, the conductor going to the baggage car and unloading oversized duffle bags and back packs at a station that does not have checked baggage.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Saw something weird on the La Plata cam yesterday, the conductor going to the baggage car and unloading oversized duffle bags and back packs at a station that does not have checked baggage.

Maybe they make an exception for the Boy Scouts headed to Philmont.

 

[Barb Stout]

Styrafoam coolers are allowed on the train. Most that I have seen are at people's feet. There is plenty of room in front of my feet.

 

[Seaboard92]

Honestly I would take a slightly earlier Hiawatha to Chicago and then march as a group to the White Palace Grill an amazing example of a late 20s Art Deco Diner with reasonable prices and good food in downtown Chicago. It's about five blocks ish south of Union Station on Canal St. at Roosevelt Road.

 

[railiner]

Honestly I would take a slightly earlier Hiawatha to Chicago and then march as a group to the White Palace Grill an amazing example of a late 20s Art Deco Diner with reasonable prices and good food in downtown Chicago. It's about five blocks ish south of Union Station on Canal St. at Roosevelt Road.

Looks like my kind of menu, although not as extensive a selection you would find in a typical Greek-American run "diner" in the northeast for dinner choices...
Anyway, thanks for the tip. I'll have to check it out, next time in Chicago...

 

[Seaboard92]

Looks like my kind of menu, although not as extensive a selection you would find in a typical Greek-American run "diner" in the northeast for dinner choices...
Anyway, thanks for the tip. I'll have to check it out, next time in Chicago...

All of the PV, Metra, and Amtrak crews go there. It is like a tradition for the PV crews I've been with to hit the Palace.

 

[saxman]

I've seen Amtrak do a huge unloading of the baggage car at Raton for the Boy Scouts even though Raton doesn't technically have checked baggage service. I'm not sure how to organize it though in Chicago.

I'm an Eagle Scout and went to Philmont in 1998. We looked at taking the train, but it wasn't really feasible coming from Houston so we flew instead.

 

[Kramerica]

Thank you so much everyone for your replies! Lots of great information. In particular, the timetables, route guide, delay website, and baggage/loading.

For the person who asked, we are doing Itinerary 9-2. 34 miles, lots of programming, climb of Mt Baldy.

I have a few follow-up questions:
- Is the cafe credit-card only? No cash? That will make things more tricky with a bunch of teenagers that only have cash...
- What is the typical consist for the SWC?
- Is the food court open at CUS? The website currently says 'reduced services'.
- In Raton on our way back, will they have half a coach empty and waiting for us? Or will we be scattered through coach?
- I see that we are likely to be 2-4 hours late leaving Raton and 2-5 hours late arriving in Chicago. I assume we are guaranteed our connection to MKE, no matter how late we arrive? I assume they'd have a bus for us?
- In Raton, what happens if the train (eastbound) is more than 6 hours late, as it has been twice in the last month? Do they pay for a hotel stay? What if the train is cancelled? Are we guaranteed a spot on the train the next day? Just trying to get a handle on what to expect in that 7% situation.
- I did search for Philmont scout trip reports, but did not find any. I found some that mentioned scouts on the train, but none written from the scout/scout leader's point of view.

Thank you everyone!

 

[Cal]

Again, I'll take a guess.

- Is the cafe credit-card only? No cash? That will make things more tricky with a bunch of teenagers that only have cash...

I know Surfliner service is back to accepting cash, not sure about LD trains. It's possible they are, but possible they aren't. I know a few members here have taken LD trips recently, hopefully they can share their experiences.

- What is the typical consist for the SWC?

I haven't been checking recently, but last I knew this was the consist:
2 Engines
1 baggage*
2 Sleepers
1 Diner
1 Lounge
2 Coaches (one being a coach-baggage)
1 baggage*

* Could be either behind the engines or at the end, I think it's more commonly at the rear.

- I see that we are likely to be 2-4 hours late leaving Raton and 2-5 hours late arriving in Chicago. I assume we are guaranteed our connection to MKE, no matter how late we arrive? I assume they'd have a bus for us?

Either a later train, bus, or a train the next day is my guess. I'm thinking a bus is what Amtrak would favor.

- In Raton, what happens if the train (eastbound) is more than 6 hours late, as it has been twice in the last month? Do they pay for a hotel stay? What if the train is cancelled? Are we guaranteed a spot on the train the next day? Just trying to get a handle on what to expect in that 7% situation.

I don't think they would pay for a hotel.

A train cancellation is highly unlikely, I doubt that will happen unless something truly terrible happens. If that does happen, you might get on the next days train or if there is not room you should be refunded.

 

[Lonestar648]

I have seen the Conductor plus an Adult get into the Baggage car to load or unload the big backpacks, especially if the group is 20 or so. I think for the summers on the SWC, the Conductors routinely load and unload the Philmont backpacks because of the size.

 

[Willbridge]

Again, I'll take a guess.
............................

Either a later train, bus, or a train the next day is my guess. I'm thinking a bus is what Amtrak would favor.

I don't think they would pay for a hotel.

A train cancellation is highly unlikely, I doubt that will happen unless something truly terrible happens. If that does happen, you might get on the next days train or if there is not room you should be refunded.

In a half dozen trips DEN<>RAT<>LAX in the past dozen years the SWC was detoured once via Texas due to a blizzard that closed Raton Pass to rail and highway traffic. The only routes open from ABQ were south. The airport was closed. ABQ cops tracked a murder's footprints in the snow to his motel room.

Amtrak put up four of us in a downtown motel for three nights till Greyhound could get through. We stumbled through the ice and snow for dinner and drinks to celebrate New Year's eve and discovered that the bartender at the best hotel in downtown did not know how to make an Irish coffee.

I'll take a guess -- none of these things will happen on a summer trip, in spite of the flukey weather patterns.

 

[Lonestar648]

I remember a trip to Philmont about ten years ago, our arrival was about 6-7 hours late, but Philmont still met the train. There were 45 of us. Departing, the trains was late, all we did was kill time walking around Raton. We arrived after the Cap was scheduled to leave but they held it for our group. The surprise was that we arrived on the same platform the cap was departing from, so just cross platform connection.

 

[Eric S]

A few observations from recent trips through MKE and CHI:

About a week ago the Wolverine cafe car was card only (no cash)
About three weeks ago the Southwest Chief cafe car was card only (no cash)
Food court at CHI is open although there are a number of vacancies compared to pre-pandemic travels

 

[Bob Dylan]

A few observations from recent trips through MKE and CHI:

About a week ago the Wolverine cafe car was card only (no cash)
About three weeks ago the Southwest Chief cafe car was card only (no cash)
Food court at CHI is open although there are a number of vacancies compared to pre-pandemic travels

ALL Amtrak Operations( Ticketing,Food and Beverage Service) are operating with a "NO CASH POLICY". Cards only.

The exceptions are Tipping and Vending Machines in the Stations and Aboard the Trains.( not sure about the Contract Businesses Operating in the Stations?)

 

[MARC Rider]

How do they handle food for these scout groups? I mean, you don't want to have 50 - 100 kids lining up at the cafe car to buy their dinner and breakfast. When I went to Philmont in 1968, we rode the Denver Zephyr, and they not only had separate coaches for us, but we had our own dining car. Of course, there was no tablecloth and "white glove service," and I suspect the food quality was not as good as what was served in the regular dining car, but it did keep us fed. After dinner, I do remember going to the "Chuckwagon" grill under the dome car and buying a pizza. (Oh to be 14 again, with the appetite to eat 2 dinners, yet not gain any weight!)