Brightline Trains Florida discussion 2023 Q4

[pennyk]

From October 1, 2023 forward, please post comments discussing Brightline Trains Florida. For previous posts regarding Brightline Trains Florida, please refer to this thread, which is currently locked:

Brightline Trains Florida discussion

IIRC, there were plans for Tri-Rail to run some local service along the FEC. If so, Brightline could arrange interline ticketing with them, and use them to feed them local traffic at some transfer station, and relieve Brightline from stopping as often perhaps, although I suppose they are...

www.amtraktrains.com

 

[jis]

Now that service has begun to Orlando, in addition to infill stations, the discussion moves on to the Sunshine Corridor...

Proposal continues for ‘The Sunshine Corridor’ in Central Florida

It’s focused on connecting visitors between popular areas.

mynews13.com

 

[Palmland]

Now that service has begun to Orlando, in addition to infill stations, the discussion moves on to the Sunshine Corridor...

Proposal continues for ‘The Sunshine Corridor’ in Central Florida

It’s focused on connecting visitors between popular areas.

mynews13.com

I saw our Volusia county representative on TV when he made the comments quoted here.. This prompted an email to him where I attempted to point out the benefits of having this extension. I only got a little snarky! He certainly sounded supportive of SunRail at the Deland ground breaking ceremony, but that may just have been because it was a done deal.

 

[VentureForth]

So... where are we at? Alignment confirmed? Construction day announced yet? The fact it takes literally decades to build a couple hundred miles of track is just mind boggling.

 

[jis]

So... where are we at? Alignment confirmed? Construction day announced yet? The fact it takes literally decades to build a couple hundred miles of track is just mind boggling.

Not very clear which project is this in reference to. SunRail Deland is under construction. Sunshine Corridor through Orlando basic location of alignment is more or less agreed on. Awaiting funding for final design work. I-Drive to Tampa, I think there is an EIS, and negotiation between Brightline and FDOT regarding use of I-4 alignment is very close to conclusion. Location of Tampa station again is more or less known but details to be worked out.

 

[lordsigma]

3 station stops correct within the Sunshine Corridor - one to connect to SunRail on SunRail's current mainline, one at the Convention Center that would also connect to Universal's Parks, and one near Disney Springs at the south end of International Drive. I have heard conflicting reports as to Disney's involvement with earlier reports indicating they walked away once the station wasn't going to be on their land per Brightline's original preferred alignment to some more recent reports that there are still lines of communication between the project and Disney regarding the south International Drive stop and that a last mile connection to Disney Springs (bus or otherwise) remains a possibility.

It would seem to their benefit to get over any previous tantrum regarding Universal now being involved and cooperate on the new stop location as it would be both to their benefit as well as the project's benefit as of course a connection to both Universal's and Disney's resorts would be of benefit to any such project.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

The Disney Bus System does not permit luggage.

There is no direct WDW bus service to the parks from Disney Springs.

So unless your day trip to Disney Springs is to go shopping. The Brightline train is not going to be a big help.

 

[lordsigma]

The Disney Bus System does not permit luggage.

There is no direct WDW bus service to the parks from Disney Springs.

So unless your day trip to Disney Springs to go shopping. The Brightline train is not going to a big help.

That is of course true. But given Disney owns all that it is certainly not insurmountable for them to come up with a way to allow people to arrive via Brightline if they wish. They may, they may not, but again given they own all the infrastructure they do, its certainly very possible if they decide its worth it. Its certainly way too early to speculate on any details - all that's known is that there are some reports that there have been and continue to be conversations.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

Disney has always been about use other people money to build things. So yes maybe they will try to incorporate the train service. Or not, since they stop providing the bus between the airport and the hotels. Floral and Gifts (a hire to retire position) was just handed to an outside contractor to save a few pennies. So IMHO Disney not going to lift a finger or a spend a penny on this project. Brightline will be lucky if Disney does not fight to stop them.

 

[Anderson]

The Disney Bus System does not permit luggage.

There is no direct WDW bus service to the parks from Disney Springs.

So unless your day trip to Disney Springs to go shopping. The Brightline train is not going to a big help.

On the presumption that Brightline+ gets extended to the Orlando-area stops in a similar form, Disney's lack of luggage on the buses would be irrelevant for about 2/3-3/4 of the resorts (depending on the exact station location, only some of the MK resorts and the AK lodge might be outside of the circle for a free Premium/Uber ride).

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

On the presumption that Brightline+ gets extended to the Orlando-area stops in a similar form, Disney's lack of luggage on the buses would be irrelevant for about 2/3-3/4 of the resorts (depending on the exact station location, only some of the MK resorts and the AK lodge might be outside of the circle for a free Premium/Uber ride).

Forgot about this.

Oh joy, more traffic on the Disney property.

 

[MikefromCrete]

Wouldn't it be rather easy to add luggage capacity to Disney buses. Just buy some new buses. It's not that hard.

 

[jis]

Wouldn't it be rather easy to add luggage capacity to Disney buses. Just buy some new buses. It's not that hard.

As usual the problems are non-technical - purely political and posturing type stuff. Nothing new about that.

 

[lordsigma]

Another interesting possibility would be Amtrak stopping at the new SunRail transfer station. While there may or may not be any desire by either party for a connection between Brightline and Amtrak such a stop would also open up a connection to the local SunRail service running on the Sunshine Corridor. This could make things a lot easier for those heading to the theme parks on the Silver service to make that last mile connection. While one could transfer to the current sunrail service at the current Orlando station and then transfer again at the transfer station to either Brightline or SunRail service, an Amtrak stop at the transfer station would make such a connection much easier. Given how long its taken to get Amtrak to move to the Miami airport I'm not holding my breath on it ever happening but its nevertheless an interesting possibility.

 

[cbustrains]

Some early tidbits on the Orlando service:

1. 18 trains were sold out over the last weekend.
2. Currently operating at 75% capacity between Orlando and West Palm Beach.
3. Frequency will be doubled next week.
4. Also has some interesting tidbits from Patrick Goddard about travel times, including saying "it's less about travel time...". It personally makes me wonder why they are spending so much money on higher speeds if many of their passengers aren't in it for the speed. This could be a side topic in and of itself.

 

[joelkfla]

The Disney Bus System does not permit luggage.

There is no direct WDW bus service to the parks from Disney Springs.

So unless your day trip to Disney Springs is to go shopping. The Brightline train is not going to be a big help.

I think a Disney Springs station is off the table. Any station would be off-property in the South I-Drive area. Disney Transport does not operate off-property, so the point is moot.

More likely any last-mile service would be contracted by Brightline.

 

[Palmland]

More likely any last-mile service would be contracted by Brightline.

Likely the closely connected Orlando bus system (Lynx) and SunRail will also provide last mile service to Disney Springs and perhaps the Disney Transportation Center (TTC). I suspect that is well used now for the thousands of theme parks workers.

 

[Mike Nogrady]

Some early tidbits on the Orlando service:

1. 18 trains were sold out over the last weekend.
2. Currently operating at 75% capacity between Orlando and West Palm Beach.
3. Frequency will be doubled next week.
4. Also has some interesting tidbits from Patrick Goddard about travel times, including saying "it's less about travel time...". It personally makes me wonder why they are spending so much money on higher speeds if many of their passengers aren't in it for the speed. This could be a side topic in and of itself.

Also note: there are no definite plans for stops between West Palm & Orlando!!!

 

[jis]

Some early tidbits on the Orlando service:

1. Also has some interesting tidbits from Patrick Goddard about travel times, including saying "it's less about travel time...". It personally makes me wonder why they are spending so much money on higher speeds if many of their passengers aren't in it for the speed. This could be a side topic in and of itself.

He is referring to the difference between 3 hours and 3.5 hours. He is not suggesting that taking 5 or 6 hours would be OK. I have actually talked with Patrick on this subject based on that conversation I think I know where he is coming from on this.

Also note: there are no definite plans for stops between West Palm & Orlando!!!

That is not a big deal. There was no firm plan for the Aventura and Boca stations more than 18 months before they went into service. We roughly know where the additional stations will be and plans will be disclosed when the permitting and funding are all lined up. No point in making random promises. There will be at least two and possibly three stations. The issue of surcharge on tickets to Orlando from those stations have also got to be agreed upon by CFEA.

 

[Anderson]

Also note: there are no definite plans for stops between West Palm & Orlando!!!

This is untrue. There is a commitment for a Treasure Coast stop. The location is TBD. I believe there are also plans for a Cocoa stop, just with the location TBD.

 

[VentureForth]

Likely the closely connected Orlando bus system (Lynx) and SunRail will also provide last mile service to Disney Springs and perhaps the Disney Transportation Center (TTC). I suspect that is well used now for the thousands of theme parks workers.


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Lynx possibly, but they are woefully inadequate at Disney. Sunrail, no. I believe there will never be any rail brought onto Disney property. Mears will have some sort of say with Brightline, and Sunrail will share track with Brightline on an East-West route between the airport and across 1-4 from Disney Springs. This would include a stop at Sand Lake Rd for transfers to the existing N-S Sunrail.

 

[ManganeseFrog]

Just noticed a line at the top of page #43 in the latest bond document indicating Brightline ordered in Q3 another 10 cars to be delivered in 2025, which would then allow trains to have 7 cars. And right after that says something about an operating lease for 20 of their cars.

 

[jis]

Just noticed a line at the top of page #43 in the latest bond document indicating Brightline ordered in Q3 another 10 cars to be delivered in 2025, which would then allow trains to have 7 cars. And right after that says something about an operating lease for 20 of their cars.

They have actually ordered a total of 20 additional cars - 2 cars to be added per train set.

 

[ManganeseFrog]

Below is a portion of the paragraph; I bolded the part in particular that caught my attention. To me it reads as though there has been a second order of cars made fairly recently. I hope that's what it means. They will need a few more seats if they want to reach their ridership projections.

The Project Owner has identified several opportunities to expand the original scope of the Project to accommodate additional train service and has ordered 20 passenger coaches in the fourth quarter of 2022, with half to be delivered in 2024 and the remainder to be delivered in 2025, as well as 10 passenger coaches in the third quarter of 2023, to be delivered in 2025. In the first quarter of 2023, the Project Owner assigned to a third-party its right to purchase 20 of the passenger coaches that the Project Owner had ordered and entered into an operating lease pursuant to which the Project Owner leases the coaches from the purchaser.

 

[Caesar La Rock]

Wouldn't it be rather easy to add luggage capacity to Disney buses. Just buy some new buses. It's not that hard.

You don't want to add luggage space to a 40ft bus that only seats 40 passengers at best. I've already seen how crowded a 40ft bus can get coming out of the airport with passengers having luggage and it's not fun standing for several miles (thankfully it hasn't happened to me yet).

Lynx possibly, but they are woefully inadequate at Disney. Sunrail, no. I believe there will never be any rail brought onto Disney property. Mears will have some sort of say with Brightline, and Sunrail will share track with Brightline on an East-West route between the airport and across 1-4 from Disney Springs. This would include a stop at Sand Lake Rd for transfers to the existing N-S Sunrail.

Just to point this out to everyone, Lynx will be the operator of Sunrail come next year. You might as well start factoring Lynx into everything when it comes to Sunrail. With that said, Lynx and Disney have a really good relationship with each other.

As a matter of fact, just recently the next timetable changes for Lynx, which will occur on December 10 has another new route being added for Disney World, a circulator route that will connect the Disney Springs Transfer Center, Epcot Cast Service and J.W. Marriott Bonnet Creek with a service frequency of every 30 minutes. So don't rule out the possibility that Lynx won't try to bring up talks with Disney about bringing Sunrail to the park, it probably won't happen due to the Universal tie in, but things happen.