Brightline Trains Florida discussion

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The report is too much to absorb at once. There definitely are some clusters. Bright line will have to worry about what their insurance carrier says once the carrier sees this report.
EDIT. Also the Miami building and inspection department.
 
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Next question is who the subcontractor was who actually *built* the incorrectly-built platforms, because they're gonna get sued.
 
I really thought that Brightline would have just avoided the stop in Lakeland just to make the travel time from Tampa to Orlando faster. There's a patch of land near the corner of I-4 and Bella Vista St where they can create Transit Oriented Development (Dark Blue). The Yellow line is Brightline. Green would be the SunRail extension to Lakeland. It would stop at the Lakeland Amtrak Station before ending at the Brightline station. I wouldn't mind an express train that bypasses Lakeland so that people can get to the theme parks before they open in the morning.

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jis said:
https://www.theledger.com/story/new...-plan-expand-florida-rail-service/6427927001/
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If that reporting is accurate, looks like the opening of the Orlando extension has slipped again, from 1st qtr 2023 to "sometime in 2023".

I tried to find a meeting video, but was unsuccessful. Found it!
https://reflect-polk.cablecast.tv/vod/7290-TPO-Meeting-20211209-024215-v1/vod.mp4Brightline presentation starts at 1:46:00

ETA: Very short presentation, nothing very significant. Just that no Polk Co. station is in the current plans, but they intend to look at it in the future. As for startup of Orlando service, she said "within 18 months", so 1st to 2nd qtr 2023 by my calculation. The reporter was not very accurate.
 
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Cool video by Simply Railway, thanks for the link!
Quick takeaway, the seat pitch looks to be ok, not really good. When you recline the seat the front of the seat moves forward taking precious space and legroom with it... That is probably necessary but this is in the Select/First Class section, what is the Smart/Coach class like?
The table seating area looks really nice, kudos to Brightline on that. The ease of access to the power plug and USB looks good.
The soundproofing for the railcars looks to be well done, the sound at 70+ mph was a low hum and restful. Almost miss the sound of jointed rail but that is another story...
The bathroom looks outstanding. I was just on the Acela (for the first time!) and the Acela looks way dated by comparison. So surprise given the age of the Acela cars. I am glad I saw the part about flushing the toilet by waving a hand in front of the green light. I am the guy that would spend 5 minutes wondering where in the world the flush mechanism is.
Final thought is simply that Amtrak ought to look at Brightline and adopt as much of their look as possible. Those Siemens cars look outstanding so Amtrak choosing the same type of Venture rail car for their next purchase was a step in the right direction.
And the shot of the jet flying overhead as the transit was leaving Miami Station at 7:50 was a nice touch!

Cal said:
I saw it, and enjoyed it. Now I actually am curious to see how Brightline West will be, as I'd actually be able to ride it. Unfortunately I doubt Amtrak will ever be able rival that type of service.
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What is it with train stations in Miami and these kinds of mistakes? Just a festival of ineptitude all around.

This is the second Miami station built with taxpayer funds in less than a decade that cannot physically accommodate the trains it was supposed to accommodate. Amtrak is still stuck in Hialeah because the platform is too short at Miami Intermodal. And now this? Amtrak, TriRail and Brightline all at three different stations without any real connections. Its like a regression to the times before union stations.
 
enviro5609 said:
What is it with train stations in Miami and these kinds of mistakes? Just a festival of ineptitude all around.

This is the second Miami station built with taxpayer funds in less than a decade that cannot physically accommodate the trains it was supposed to accommodate. Amtrak is still stuck in Hialeah because the platform is too short at Miami Intermodal. And now this? Amtrak, TriRail and Brightline all at three different stations without any real connections. Its like a regression to the times before union stations.
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Concur. The original Seaboard station was out of the way, the FEC one looked impressive on an old post card, but what you saw was Miami City Hall, but at least it was downtown. Philadelphia is a much better example of what can be done when tracks run through and stations are spaced properly. FEC, with few exceptions, had pretty "blah" wooden stations. Jacksonville Terminal, a "union" station, was really spectacular.
 
Cal said:
I saw it, and enjoyed it. Now I actually am curious to see how Brightline West will be, as I'd actually be able to ride it. Unfortunately I doubt Amtrak will ever be able rival that type of service.
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Who knows?

If anybody else can run a better service than Amtrak, what's to stop Amtrak copying them or hiring their managers or consultants or whatever?

I think the issue here is that these are probably special cases in special situations that cannot easily be replicated. Otherwise somebody would have already done this long ago.
 
cirdan said:
Who knows?

If anybody else can run a better service than Amtrak, what's to stop Amtrak copying them or hiring their managers or consultants or whatever?

I think the issue here is that these are probably special cases in special situations that cannot easily be replicated. Otherwise somebody would have already done this long ago.
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Your 3rd paragraph seems to be in conflict with your 2nd paragraph.

What is special or not easily replicated about purchasing comfortable, up-to-date, accessible coaches from the leading railcar supplier in America? It just takes money and lead time.
 
Oddly enough many of Brightline's middle to senior management specially on the technical and operations side came from Amtrak's NEC! The ones I have spoken to remember their work on the NEC fondly, but almost universally have a low opinion of the upper management there, though there are a few specific individuals they talk about fondly. And this from allegedly the most favored part of Amtrak. Anyway, let's not digress. These are the people that helped design the interior of the Brightline equipment and also the overall passenger experience package. An illustration of how the same seeds can bloom different ways under different environments I suppose.
 
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cirdan said:
Who knows?

If anybody else can run a better service than Amtrak, what's to stop Amtrak copying them or hiring their managers or consultants or whatever?

I think the issue here is that these are probably special cases in special situations that cannot easily be replicated. Otherwise somebody would have already done this long ago.
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It’s also a matter of funding. I mean I doubt they would pay for free rides to finish the last mile problem.
 
Cal said:
It’s also a matter of funding. I mean I doubt they would pay for free rides to finish the last mile problem.
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None of Birghtline's last mile rides are free rides. They are complementary rides, i.e. the cost is hidden away in the ticket price, which going forward is not going to be cheap by any means. They will charge as much as they can using yield management to the hilt. They are very good at it.
 
joelkfla said:
Your 3rd paragraph seems to be in conflict with your 2nd paragraph.

What is special or not easily replicated about purchasing comfortable, up-to-date, accessible coaches from the leading railcar supplier in America? It just takes money and lead time.
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This, and the fact that Brightline is part of a broader real estate deal and also just happens to be run in partnership with a highly supportive railroad.

Those are conditions that cannot easily be replicated.
 
I have a worry. Once Brightline is built out and real estate deals finalized what is there to prevent of FEC holdings selling the FEC RR to NS? Then what happens to passenger service?
 
west point said:
I have a worry. Once Brightline is built out and real estate deals finalized what is there to prevent of FEC holdings selling the FEC RR to NS? Then what happens to passenger service?
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FECR is not directly involved in any real estate deals. All the real estate operations are under FECI, and some of them are in Brightline, which is a subsidiary of FECI.

There is nothing called FEC holdings. Fortress Goup sold off FECR to Ferromex some time back. Ferromex loves FECR as a money making going subsidiary. Even then, should they wish to sell it to someone else, Brightline is well covered by long term contracts for the rest of our lives and beyond.

The joint operations between FECR and Brightline are actually managed by Florida Dispatching Company an equally and jointly owned subsidiary of FECR and Brightline.
 
cirdan said:
Who knows?

If anybody else can run a better service than Amtrak, what's to stop Amtrak copying them or hiring their managers or consultants or whatever?

I think the issue here is that these are probably special cases in special situations that cannot easily be replicated. Otherwise somebody would have already done this long ago.
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Amtrak's biggest obstacle to operating a world class system is... Amtrak.
 
neroden said:
Next question is who the subcontractor was who actually *built* the incorrectly-built platforms, because they're gonna get sued.
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Depends on the engineering. You must follow the engineering. If you aren't "fit checking" along the way, you aren't realizing there is an error in the engineering. The poor souls pouring concrete don't have a clue. Quality control typically checks what is engineered vs what is built. Liaison engineering, on the other hand, corrects engineering along the way if something can't be built per the engineering or if it conflicts with the intended function - this part which seems to be the offending factor.

All that to simply say, the subcontractor could have built it correctly to bad engineering. If the engineering was correct, then the sub would be contractually obligated to rework their mistakes and maybe need to get better QC.
 
I had a friend some years back that was a "model builder" for the construction industry. They used to commission scale models to be built according to the prints. By doing so, these types of errors were caught during the model build. However, when money started to get tight, model building was one of the first expenses they cut from a large project like this.

Only thing is, when an error of this magnitude is caught during a model build, it is much easier and cheaper to rectify than having to change it after the actual structure has been built. But ... when they are cutting costs, they only look at the times the model didn't find any errors and decide it is an expense they can cut - and then something like this happens - although they will never admit that a model build would have saved millions had they just spent the thousands for it.
 
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