Brightline Trains Florida discussion

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2021    November     61,045     0.6         $  582,979    $ 9.83    $ 9.55    0.8     $13.11
2021    December     95,348     1.3         $1,259,547    $13.63    $13.21    1.6     $13.63

2021                156,393     1.8         $1,842,309    $11.51    $11.78    2.4*    $15.34

Year    Month       Ridership   Tix Rev-A    Tix Rev-B     PPR-A     PPR-B    Tot Rev  Total PPR
2022    January      64,243     1.3         $1,254,666    $20.24    $19.53    1.5     $23.35
2022    February     77,806     1.6         $1,624,589    $20.56    $20.88    1.9     $24.42
2022    March       107,069     2.3         $2,289,135    $21.48    $21.38    2.7     $25.22
2022    April        93,922     1.9         $1,926,340    $20.23    $20.51    2.3     $24.49
2022    May         102,796     2.2         $2,178,247    $21.40    $21.19    2.6     $25.29
2022    June         92,304     1.7         $1,713,162    $18.42    $18.56    2.1     $22.75
2022    July        111,582     1.9         $1,896,894    $17.03    $17.00    2.3     $20.61
2022    August      100,116     1.9         $1,917,221    $18.98    $19.15    2.4     $23.97
2022    September    91,577     1.8         $1,769,268    $19.66    $19.32    2.5     $27.30
2022    October     102,615     2.1         $2,126,183    $20.46    $20.72    3.0     $29.24
2022    November    102,544     2.2         $2,213,925    $21.45    $21.59    3.4     $33.16
2022    December    183,920     3.7         $3,733,576    $20.12    $20.30    5.1     $27.73
                    
2022                1,230,494  24.6        $24,643,207    $19.99             31.8     $25.84

2023    January     156,137     3.5         $3,538,064    $22.41    $22.66    4.7     $30.10
2023    February    151,654     3.7         $3,654,861    $24.39    $24.10    4.7     $30.99
2023    March       179,576     4.7         $4,710,278    $26.17    $26.23    6.5     $36.20
2023    April       151,080     3.4         $3,446,135    $22.50    $22.81    4.9     $32.43
2023    May         168,137     3.5         $3,468,666    $20.82    $20.63    5.2     $30.93
2023    June        149,536     2.7         $2,706,602    $18.06    $18.10    4.2     $28.09
2023    July        156,478     2.8         $2,818,169    $17.89    $18.01    4.3     $27.50
2023    August      149,821     2.6         $2,581,416    $17.35    $17.23    4.0     $26.70

                                Filing      Derived       Derived   Filing    Filing  Derived
 
pennyk said:
Brightline was the lead story on the local Orlando news at noon today. The report lasted almost 10 minutes.

Edit to add: further in the news, it was reported that a Brightline train from WPB to Miami hit a trespasser in Delray Beach today, which delayed the first train from Miami to Orlando.
Click to expand...
So, that's what held us up...
 
joelkfla said:
Higher baggage fees have been instituted for Orlando service.

Baggage fees for Smart (economy) customers:
To/from OrlandoWithin So. FL
1st & 2nd checked bag$25$10
3rd checked bag, subject to available space$75$60
Pet fee$45$10
Oversize carry-on$10$10
Click to expand...
You do get two carryons free which can both be standard size suitcases. Lots of overhead room.
 
We’re thinking of a Brightline trip in October- my excuse is my birthday, something my wife rolls her eyes only a little! But I was surprised - the fare from Orlando is the same regardless of destination. I was thinking of just a short trip to W Palm but now wil likely do Ft Lauderdale and an overnight. I do like the ease of seat selection complete with indication on direction of travel to avoid riding backwards. Why is this so hard for Amtrak? The day we were interested in for a return the fare is already what I assume is the next bucket-$99 rather than$79. A good sign.
 
Higher fares are a good sign? For indicating ridership, I guess, but the private company is pricing out many potential passengers.
 
daybeers said:
Higher fares are a good sign? For indicating ridership, I guess, but the private company is pricing out many potential passengers.
Click to expand...
Pricing out to consumers is revenue management to a corporation. Amtrak does it, airlines do it, Uber does it. It's literally how they stay in business so we can keep them.

If $40 RT is going to price out folks, maybe this isn't for them.

Lesson? Book early.
 
Palmland said:
We’re thinking of a Brightline trip in October- my excuse is my birthday, something my wife rolls her eyes only a little! But I was surprised - the fare from Orlando is the same regardless of destination. I was thinking of just a short trip to W Palm but now wil likely do Ft Lauderdale and an overnight. I do like the ease of seat selection complete with indication on direction of travel to avoid riding backwards. Why is this so hard for Amtrak? The day we were interested in for a return the fare is already what I assume is the next bucket-$99 rather than$79. A good sign.
Click to expand...
I have booked a "birthday" trip for me in October to WPB round trip.
 
We were on "opposing" first trains - he was on the first departure, I (and Nick Ewen from TPG) got the first arrival.

Our paths crossed when he went back north...I heard him recording video in the seat behind me and asked who he was.

We promptly talked shop for two hours.

[This happened with Paul Lucas back in 2019, too...we had the same idea for an excursion on the same day and ended up at the same table.]
Fenway said:
Of course, Miles was on first train

Click to expand...

Edit to add: At about 28:39, you can see the sleeve of my suit. I think I might be single-handedly responsible for the return trip segment being so short...
 
Last edited:
Anderson said:
We were on "opposing" first trains - he was on the first departure, I (and Nick Ewen from TPG) got the first arrival.

Our paths crossed when he went back north...I heard him recording video in the seat behind me and asked who he was.

We promptly talked shop for two hours.

[This happened with Paul Lucas back in 2019, too...we had the same idea for an excursion on the same day and ended up at the same table.]

Edit to add: At about 28:39, you can see the sleeve of my suit. I think I might be single-handedly responsible for the return trip segment being so short...
Click to expand...
Did you introduce him to the High Speed & Other Non-Amtrak Intercity Rail faction of the Amtrak Unlimited discussion forum? :D
 
The last time I rode Brightline, there were a few things that, to me, seemed to reduce operational efficiency and took away from the experience:

- The Amtrak-ish Kindergarten Walk from upstairs to the platform
- The lack of effective LED signage on the platforms
- Ineffecient unloading and loading. People waiting until the train is stopped before getting up to disembark allows for folks boarding to get on before the disembarkers get off the train, causing bottlenects in the vestibules.

Any improvements on these?
 
VentureForth said:
I guess Brightline doesn't have any plans to take it to Key West... :( ;)
Click to expand...
Yeah, sadly the entire historic Flagler right of way south of Dadeland is paved now, first for the busway and then for US-1 down to Key West.

The book Miles mentions, “Last Train to Paradise,” by Les Standiford, is good btw. I borrowed it from my local public library, and then a month later I found a signed copy at the bookstore.
 
VentureForth said:
The last time I rode Brightline, there were a few things that, to me, seemed to reduce operational efficiency and took away from the experience:

- The Amtrak-ish Kindergarten Walk from upstairs to the platform
- The lack of effective LED signage on the platforms
- Ineffecient unloading and loading. People waiting until the train is stopped before getting up to disembark allows for folks boarding to get on before the disembarkers get off the train, causing bottlenects in the vestibules.

Any improvements on these?
Click to expand...
At least at MCO, there wasn't a "kindergarten walk" to be had. However, on the 0838 this morning they were also dumping about 100 pax (maybe more, but 100-120 feels about right for what I saw) onto the train. Premium is a little under half full right now, but as far as I can tell it sells out (or comes close) further south (I suspect that the rest of the train is a bit busier).

One thing Brightline could consider would be "Board at the front of the car, disembark at the rear" rather than the half-and-half approach. On the other hand, folks not getting up to disembark in a timely manner isn't "just" a Brightline problem...especially if you've suddenly got a large population that's not really used to taking the train doing it.

Three other things I'd note:
(1) The engineer this morning was tooting the horn quite a bit on the MCO-Cocoa segment (i.e. the grade-separated portion). I'm not entirely sure why - though I can't say that I mind it even if the objective was just to wave the train in the face of traffic on 528.
(2) There did seem to be quite a bit of touristy traffic (e.g. there were a decent number of folks checking bags), so that strikes me as a good sign.
(3) The WiFi isn't terribly stable. Not as bad as Amtrak tends to be, but still hiccup-prone.
 
"People waiting until the train is stopped before getting up to disembark allows for folks boarding to get on before the disembarkers get off the train, causing bottlenects in the vestibules."

Based on my own experience, but not with Brightline (so maybe my comments are worth less than two cents):

I suggest that the crews need to be directing people. I'm sure I've heard Amtrak crews tell people to make their way to an exit while a train is approaching a station. Then at a station, the crew could be at the door and tell boarding passengers that people are getting off the train. Again, I've seen Amtrak crews do this a lot; Septa bus drivers and trolley operators often tell boarding passengers to wait because people are getting off. If Brightline crews are not doing this, I imagine that they could.

When I was commuting on VRE (1996 to 2017) there were usually problems on the morning trains with passengers who were getting on conflicting with people getting off. VRE played announcements telling passengers to stay in their seats until the train stopped, so people who obeyed the announcements would be trying to exit against a stream of passengers getting on. The announcements were made because other passengers would stand up well before their station stop, blocking the way for people getting off at stations the train reached sooner (that is, passengers getting off would stand up one or two stops before their own station). VRE announced a policy that "standing means detraining," but I never saw it enforced. So, based on my experience, I suggest that correct announcements and directions from the crew might fix the conflict between passengers getting on while others are getting off.
 
So, another update. Over the last week or so I'd noted that Brightline went to 8x/day next Tuesday (Oct. 3) and then hourly service a few weeks later. It now looks like they go to the 8x/day schedule starting tomorrow (they seem to have just skipped the first two NB departures on the timecard today, with a gap around midday SB).

However, it doesn't look like they're running any departures from Orlando after about 1830 until "full daily service" on Oct. 24.
One other quirk I'm noticing is that there are 9 NB departures but only 8 SB departures starting on Oct. 11. I'm not sure what the source of the imbalance is (though I'd expect them to add an additional SB departure to balance the timecard - I doubt there's really a good reason to have a daily deadhead move, and even if the train were only going to WPB I feel like they could sell enough tickets to justify crewing it).
 
Literalman said:
"People waiting until the train is stopped before getting up to disembark allows for folks boarding to get on before the disembarkers get off the train, causing bottlenects in the vestibules."

Based on my own experience, but not with Brightline (so maybe my comments are worth less than two cents):

I suggest that the crews need to be directing people. I'm sure I've heard Amtrak crews tell people to make their way to an exit while a train is approaching a station. Then at a station, the crew could be at the door and tell boarding passengers that people are getting off the train. Again, I've seen Amtrak crews do this a lot; Septa bus drivers and trolley operators often tell boarding passengers to wait because people are getting off. If Brightline crews are not doing this, I imagine that they could.

When I was commuting on VRE (1996 to 2017) there were usually problems on the morning trains with passengers who were getting on conflicting with people getting off. VRE played announcements telling passengers to stay in their seats until the train stopped, so people who obeyed the announcements would be trying to exit against a stream of passengers getting on. The announcements were made because other passengers would stand up well before their station stop, blocking the way for people getting off at stations the train reached sooner (that is, passengers getting off would stand up one or two stops before their own station). VRE announced a policy that "standing means detraining," but I never saw it enforced. So, based on my experience, I suggest that correct announcements and directions from the crew might fix the conflict between passengers getting on while others are getting off.
Click to expand...
Old habits are hard to break...

Outside of the NEC, most traveler's are probably more used to air travel, where they are admonished to "remain seated, with their seatbelt fastened", until the aircraft is parked at the gate, and the seatbelt sign has turned off".
 
railiner said:
Old habits are hard to break...

Outside of the NEC, most traveler's are probably more used to air travel, where they are admonished to "remain seated, with their seatbelt fastened", until the aircraft is parked at the gate, and the seatbelt sign has turned off".
Click to expand...
A simple announcement requesting passengers to "proceed towards the vestibule "now" to disembark when the train stops", may do the trick. The passengers do indeed require to be reminded that this is not a plane.
 
I assume that over time, the majority of passengers will be repeat passengers if not regulars - as is the case on the NEC also i presume. And these wizened passengers will know just what to do without being told. Any new passengers will just go with the flow.
 
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